Filling audio rack tubes with sand, metal, grape nutz???


Hello-

I know this has been asked before, but can't seem to find the answer I need. I have to VTI pro series audio racks coming this Friday from Cali and was wondering if it's necessary to fill the tubes with anything. I've researched people use sand or metal pieces of something or another. Any recommendations would be great unless it's Grape Nutz. 

Thanks!

Brent
9d41d9c8 04f6 4383 9682 703975c9b8b7knollbrent
buck shot. It doesn't settle and is easy to manage evne when spilled. 
Great! Where does one aquire this much shot???

Thanks Erik!

be carful when handling the shot fyi it is lead after all. and no idea where to buy large amounts reason I always go with pee gravel, sand or a mix of both.

you could go to a garden center and buy cleaned small pee gravel used mostly for decoration around the yard, cleaned of course as you don’t want bugs in there. the consistency is good for filling stands. another option is cleaned sand (this is what they used to put inside ashtrays for example but like one other said you will need to seal the bottom of the tubes with some clear silicon or similar. then there is the mixing fill with different constancies to help reduce any ringing-vibrations but I’ve never found it needed. I like sand for the ease of filling unfilling but you do have to seal the bottom.


I'm not a fan of using lead just not healthy for us or the environment, in this day and age there is other options better suited to your health and the health of your family.
Whatever you use, make sure you are putting it into a sealed cavity that will not spill out if tipped over and will not allow the material to escape into your home environment.  Do not ingest or inhale the material while working with it and use appropriate respiratory protection.  Both lead and silica dust are known to pose health problems if ingested or inhaled so, whatever you use, study the MSDS sheet on the material before handling.
A few thoughts come to mind;
1. Sound Anchor uses sand in their stands
2. Some people mix lead shot with the sand (like shotgun reload material)
3. Starsound Technoligies swears by their steel microbearing stuff that they used to use to damp cables
http://starsoundtechnologies.com/microBearingFill.php
4. The micro bearing stuff in #3 may be nothing more than steel blasting shot in a small fancy container - this is about a third of the cost;
https://www.google.com/shopping/product/15404022574801836148?q=small+size+Steel+shot&client=safari&sa=X&hl=en-us&biw=1024&bih=666&output=search&prmd=sinv&prds=ds:1,num:4,cs:1&tbs=vw:l,ss:44&ved=0ahUKEwjunYChyefdAhXD44MKHVqVAqYQu4UCCA8
Excellent@mitch2 just ordered a bucket of metal!
I had a friend that poured a liquid gel type compound into the legs I think he got it from one of the hobby stores. they were dead to any taping and added a surprising amount of mass. of course there is no removing at that point your committed.  
There is a product that is used to solidify latex paint for disposal. You might be able to use that with a couple quarts of inexpensive or surplus latex paint. 
If you ordered the steel shot you will not have the same level of concern as with lead.  Of course, you can look to see if there is an MSDS for how to handle the material and if you want to be absolutely safe you can always fill and cap the stands outdoors so there is no residual dust in the house 😷 and then carry (or roll with a dolly) the stands into the house. Your biggest risk is to not hurt your back moving them around 🤕
Post removed 
Post removed 
I made some steel stands for my Maggie’s (yes I can weld). Filled tubes with canned foam insulation. Seems to work, foam can be messy tho.

Hello Mitch2,

Starsound Technoligies swears by their steel microbearing stuff that they used to use to damp cables

Actually Micro-Bearing Steel was formulated and used in Sistrum Platform™ tube assemblies prior to applying it to cables. Mr. Rick Schultz of High Fidelity Cables was responsible for the micro-bearing steel shield discovery placed in Sonoran Cables back in 2001. Rick is a leading Industry pacesetter in cable design, electronic signal-pass technologies and magnetic wave guide configurations. He holds multiple US Patents for his innovative work involving magnetic conduction.

The micro bearing stuff in #3 may be nothing more than steel blasting shot in a small fancy container - this is about a third of the cost;

Micro-Bearing Steel is manufactured from a specific certified US steel to a precise sizing then cleaned three times and inspected in order to limit slag, clumps, foreign matter, dirt and dust that you will likely find in the twenty-five pound tub of steel blasting shot sold at Home Depot. The costs are much higher to manufacturer our brand compared to standard abrasives and that fancy container you allude to costs $1.25 plus the printed label and labor to fill and ship it.


Steel ball bearings provide an even-grain structure in comparison to other fill materials and are highly conductive for resonance flow. There are air molecules surrounding each bearing so resonance will transfer through the material to ground. Some resonance is also dissipated due to the uniformity of mass and frequency cancelation. If you are filling the stand for high-speed resonance transfer as the primary function, this conductive material and shape is our recommended preference.

The key to function is understanding how much quantity of smaller sized steel shot to use. The vast density of steel shot can become an issue; too much and you will sink (absorb) and/or over damp the live dynamic in a heartbeat leaving you with a dead stand and a deadened sonic result. We rarely fill steel tube speaker stands to the maximum load.

In order to achieve maximum performance from Sistrum Platforms and Star Sound Musical Instrument applications, we require a cleaner higher grade of steel. Micro-Bearing Steel is not for everyone based on cost but one should realize the most important part of any speaker stand formula is...


Physics dictates the functional relationship that marries the speaker to the stand and to the floor.


This is why different stands change the way your speaker sounds. The stand determines the musical capability and sonic performance of the speaker system. Unfortunately the Audio Industry remains in the dark, never comparing, reviewing or educating the public on speaker stand function.

If you are in search of deadening a stand we recommend the use of uneven metal slag, sand, rubber such as Sorbothane®, foams and other primary energy absorbing materials, lead being the most effective and dangerous to health. Your financial investment is going to cost less but so goes the performance of the stand and loudspeaker as well. 


Do you what live dynamics or dead harmonics?


We have been modifying and improving other brands of speaker stands making them more reactive to high-speed resonance transfer as the method of vibration management for twenty years. On occasion, mistakes in judgment can be made dependent on the stand design and chemistry makeup, however based from hands-on experience, using a steel bearing the size of a grain of sand is a better solution in comparison to all the other fills and guesswork being used throughout the Industry.

Hope this information helps and thank you for your time,

Robert

Star Sound



Actually glass microbeads, which I mentioned earlier, on this or similar thread, work better in this application than steel microbeads. Glass microbeads are employed in my Mikro g seismic platform, introduced a couple years ago. Why glass microbeads, you ask? Because they are harder and lighter (react faster to vibration forces) than steel microbeads and because they can be fabricated in the most ideal, efficacious diameter for audio applications. Steel microbeads by comparison are slow and sluggish. Glass microbeads in conjunction with contrained layer damping and a layer very hard material simulates the physical characteristics of a woodpecker’s head. The physical characteristics of the tissue and bone surrounding the woodpecker’s brain 🧠 prevent injury or death during very rapid and extremely high negative g movements whilst pecking wood. Necessity is the mother of invention. He he ha ha, he he ha ha!

Actually glass microbeads, which I mentioned earlier, on this or similar thread, work better in this application than steel microbeads.

Actually Geoff is batting a perfect 1000. If we post anywhere on this forum regardless of Mr. Kait’s experience or in many cases his lack of experience on various topics, he is the first responder guaranteeing ye old repetitive use of “mine is better than yours” hyperbole while maneuvering the original thread - off topic.

He he ha ha, he he ha ha!

Well stated Mr. Kait, well stated.

Our next response is where we pose questions regarding his generic statements and opinions that are guaranteed to forever remain - unanswered.

1 Steel ball bearings are not steel micro beads. Steel ball bearings are Conductive for Resonance. Glass is NON-Conductive so why is a glass medium better for filling a steel alloy tube or metal monitor stand since all metals are conductive for resonance transfer?

Why glass microbeads, you ask? Because they are harder and lighter (react faster to vibration forces) than steel microbeads and because they can be fabricated in the most ideal, efficacious diameter for audio applications. Steel microbeads by comparison are slow and sluggish.

2 What do you mean “react faster to vibration forces” and how do you verify your statement?

3 Are you referring to the attack sustain and decay characteristics of sound reproduction or the acceleration of resonance flow through a non-solid medium?

4 What does glass do to the overall function of the steel speaker stand that improves sonic performance?


Mr. Kait states steel is slow and sluggish without knowing what type of steel alloy, the damping factor thereof and sizing or chemistry makeup of the material in question. Another generic statement without any examples of outside use or product name brand comparisons other than that of his own product - a wood isolation add on shelf  which is not relative to the topic of this thread.


5 What happens to the physical relationship between the monitor, steel stand top and steel stand base and flooring when a non conductive glass material is introduced?

6 Using glass beads, are the so stated improvements over standard steel shot audible? Are the improvements over Micro-Bearing Steel audible?


Our company manufactures and sells two models of speaker stands priced at $8,000 and $15,000 per pair. The two advanced Monitor Platforms functionality and audible increases in sonic performance are based on our expanding technology involving high-speed resonance transfer using mechanical grounding principles and the understanding of Coulomb friction.

Located in the center of a 2.5 inch (outside diameter) solid brass engineered support leg is a magnetic wave guide as magnets also affect resonance movement. We have successfully introduced an additional high-speed pathway improving resonance transfer located in the most inert section of the material - the center core. These advancements are owed to loading steel shot into various speaker stands and equipment racking tube assemblies over the course of two decades and learning from those experiences.

7 Mr. Kait, does your company manufacture or even listen to various speaker stands? We are told by you many times over that you only listen to a portable player and headphones so why should we place any confidence in what you say with regards to glass beads and speaker stand performance?


For those listeners who want to try any company’s brand of steel shot in their stands, we have calculators and opinions as to size of bearings and how much fill material is required to mass your stands for high-speed resonance transfer. Phone calls and information are free of charge.

Sorry to waste your time with another Kait salesmanship rebuttal

Robert



It’s no fun being no. 2, is it Robert? And all this time you thought vibration isolation was impossible. 😬
This is fun, Geoff is just warming up, I sense the onset of
"spring theory"

Mr. Kait,

You attempt to sell your things and preach continuously about how much you know about audio but when questioned by people with knowledge and/or experience there are never answers, never any real answers…

It’s no fun being no. 2, is it Robert?


Pick a number (any number) because in your world full of limitation and lack of vision; meaningless remains always - meaningless. Just curious though, who is # 1?

Got to go… It’s Showtime!

R



In case no one has mentioned it yet, start slow with your material then listen. Don't assume filling the tubes to the top will result in better sound.

Good luck.
Let’s see, what’s for dinner? Bar B Q Robert? Let me think about it....

VTI pro series arrived, assembled and tubes filled with steel blasting bits. It took 60lbs of steel to fill those legs. $115.

I decided after assembling and placing components that while the stand did fit under the mounted wall tv, they were just too big. Removed top shelves and will probably ebay them as amp stands for a fair price. I’ll move components around so the shorter stands can hold everything.

They look fantastic with silver/greyish rods and black shelves. Sound wise? Not sure, the stereo sounds better. Stand before was a crooked Ikea thingy so anything would be an improvement.

Very satisfied! Thanks to those that contributed to this thread with helpful information. There are some that only offer chaos. They need to find a forum for shenanigans and bull bleep.