Feedback does not alway tell all

I meant to post this under 'Misc.' instead I put it under Music.
I'm sure a moderator will catch it, so here it is:

I'm starting this thread because recent exchanges here have demonstrated that I am not the only with these experiences. It might also serve as a warning to the initiated. I do not think that the problem as an easy fix, but I do feel it's important we are aware of it.

Heck, it's ultimately more of an annoyance than a danger. But most people here behave in a polite and honorable fashion, and have a sense of community very rare anywhere on the net, so anything we can do to encourage these positive attributes we must do.

The feedback system is very good, but it is no the tell-all. Feedback generally applies when a transaction completes, therefore the situations below would not be feedback-worthy. Besides, leaving negative feedback can always prompt a retaliatory tit-for-tat.

I've had sellers with 'good feedback' drop off the face of the earth, after we'd agreed (to asking price, mind you) and even to shipping costs. I've also had simple questions not answered (such as 'is it under warranty').

One time, I was interested in an item, exchanged emails, found out the fellow was local, discussed the gear I had. He then offered to drop by and demo it for me (he gave 'airs' of being a dealer or broker of some sort, based on AG info, and had many items listed).

I then informed him I had decided against the item, as I was going another route. I asked him what other lines of gear he specialized in. No answer, not another peep.

So, these fellows have excellent feedback here, but I will NEVER deal with them again. Period.

I now have a folder where I keep 'orphaned' emails from people I do not want to deal with. I look at that list when I'm interested in an item. If they are on there, well you know.

I agree. There should also be a feedback response line, like the one they have on Ebay for people to respond to Negative feedback without leaving it for you. I've always acted honorably and have all positive feedback, but I'd quite frankly be afraid to leave negative feedback for someone for fear of getting it myself.
Feedback is a failed attempt by websites to appear to be a safe place to buy/sell. Forget the feedback! The internet is in my opinion going to remain the "wild wild west" for a long time. Get a phone # and talk with your party. You can you usually sense, by asking questions if they should be trusted. I get so many replies from faulted transactions claiming that they are sorry for their error and that they will correct the problem and end up not being able to. Usually from those who don't what they are selling and don't know that parts are missing from their items. Claims of innocense and unknowing... I like the sellers (local) who refuse to let you into their homes for local pick-ups. They'll take your money but not in person. Did I tell you the one about the buyer who opened the box, dropped the unit and tried to get a claim UPS. Guess he didn't like the unit. UPS is very aware of how shipping damage happens....hey, good luck!
You can do what you want, but IMHO, that is kind of a silly approach. 1st, I don't know where everyone gets the idea that all e mail reach their PROPER final destination. You dont know if he accidently deleted before read, whether it got misrouted, still out there, etc. Their is a company in MA that I get all their inter office memo's, details,updates,whatever, I notice that my email address is never in their stream of recipients. I have recieved on more than one occasion email that is weeks old, but is dated and tagged properly. I think too many out there think the internet is infallible, but its still not face to face, nor is it telephone. This one guy your talking about, kinda hard to believe that if he has that kind of feedback rep
that he just went flake.Maybe he thought he had made a deal with you and you backed out. That might just be his perception, and there would be two perceptions of this correspoindence, yours and his. No, I don't like being not answered, e mail or otherwise, but an example of that happened this week with me. I leave town, kind of an emergency trip and I think I am not going to need my laptop. I sold a guy a piece, emailed him that I got his funds, emailed him that I shipped. he wrote me one or two more emails, but it was not convenient for me to answer him quickly, especially when I knew he would have them item in the next two days. He writes selling site complaining that I would not respond to emails, but he has the goods and they are fine. Are we supposed to be hooked to our email accounts all the time? If you or anyone deem something to be that important, use the phone. I list mine everytime I sell, inviting people to call or write. I send it everytime I try to buy, because I would rather hear the person I am dealing with. I think once you broke the deal with the guy, he decided maybe your were just wanting to e talk, not purchase, nothing wrong with that, but maybe thats not what he wanted.
I guess my point is, you or anyone want to do all your correspondence on the net, fine. But I think you expecting a little to much when you think that all email correspondence is going to be quickly and promptly answered. To many things can and do go wrong, and if you are really trying to do a deal that amounts to over $100 and is something you really want, use the phone.
Jvia, my experiences are not unique.

And I can assure you we had not "made a deal", money was not even discussed. Although I like the way you expanded that into a nice skit. We went from "Maybe he thought he had made a deal with you " to "once you broke the deal with the guy." Guiltier by the minute. I thank you for your vote on my integrity.

And some times, I have sent follow up emails, which have also been ignored.
Email is, for the most part, very reliable.
I do not accept the 'blame the computer' thesis, especially if there is more than one email sent or if the item turns out 'sold' the next day.

I have had situations were people could not answer in a timely fashion, but they did eventually answer.

And no, I do not expect anyone to be a cyborg with an email implant, nor do I expect an answer within minutes or even days, but people do use a computer to get to this site. I would expect them to use the computer at least once a week.

Again, 95% of the time, responces are prompt and polite even when the item has already been sold. As I've said before, a little common courtesy goes a long way.

KP, nowhere did I say your experiences were unique. I consider them fairly common. That is the point I am making. In this case, for whatever reason the guy doesn't seem to want to do business with you, at least right now. And price or percieved value pretty much has to be discussed, because it is usually in the ad, thers is an idea of how much an item is going to be. And if it wasn't discussed, he might have well thought your were wasting his time, and just did'nt have the courage to tell you. I'm not saying this was a decent human being you were dealing with, I don't know who it was, but there are two sides to every deal that makes or doesn't make.
And no, I don't care for that blame the computer excuse either, but it does happen. I can tell you I am someone that does have buyers feedback on all the sites, I have over 200 on Ebay(, and I will tell you things happen fairly often. And a lot of times it is just easier for people to "drop it". Especially if they are slightly embarrassed for not being able to make a deal or changing their mind about a deal. And e mail gives them an easier chance of blowing a deal off. E mail is not instantaneous, I get tons of e mail that was sent the night before, stuff that should have reached me before I went bed at 1 am or so. Its all dated at 830,900pm, and sometimes its deals that I or the mailer lose out on because email is really pretty slow, even though its an electronically based medium. You have to talk if you answer a ringing phone or a knock on the door. I also consider it easier to find out if I am dealing with a flake or not in that phone conversation. Thats why again, I post it my ads when I am selling, and I will call(if I have the #) before I will email if someone is listing an item I am interested in
Most of these people have jobs, families and other concerns outside of audio and just because 1 person or 10 do something you don't like on a particular deal means they want to do it again. Each deal does and should stand on its own. I have an will always consider myself as good as the last one I make. lucishow, you must frequent audio market place for that wild wild west comment. That place is dangerous!
from what ive learned selling over the net and especially here and selling "high end" is that people who buy this stuff are finicky about stuff. No sale is a sale until I have money in my PayPal acct. I am not going to lose another sale trying to wait on a person who says they want "X" and then finds it isnt the proper shade of Black. It goes both ways, I placed and ad for an Audio Rack, it said it was "BlacK". I got 4 emails asking what colour the rack was. Is it curtious to email back? Sure, but it is also coutious to read before asking. I emailed back 3 of the 4, did they email me back they wanted it? Nope. I sold it to a person who knew what it was w/o question. Not, do you have a picture. This is a pet peave of mine, people get lazy and dont use the resource of the computer under their hands. Go to the makers web site and try to find specs and a pic 1st. I always do that before I ask a seller info about what they are selling.
Welcome to web shopping. This is a spare time hobby to most folks; they are not in business. I think you expect too much. If you want service, go to an audio dealer and pay full price for new gear.
I do not expect dealer-level service, but if we have emails agreeing to price and shipping costs, I would expect to hear back. Or at least have my subsequent emails returned.

I know there's not much to be done, and I know the pitfalls.

I felt the need to vent, so climbed on a soapbox and I've enjoyed venting.

For the record, I have not been scammed in any way, and the transcations I've complete have all been very smooth and cordial. This is just a 'manners' issue with me.

Had an experience where I purchased something from someone and wired the money overnight. It took 3 weeks for this guy to ship and that was after I leaned on him heavily. The leaning caused only great friction (The excuse was a "lack of packing material"...Hmmm). At any rate I had to get out the Ugly Stick so when my item was delivered on my door after 4 weeks since payment it was thrown into a box fill of popcorn...and that is all it had to protect it. BAD packaging. Fortunately nothing was damaged and I still use it often. Of course I couldn't leave any feedback as he had not left mine and was trying to make me out to be Mr. Nasty. Geez, get real.
From a buyers standpoint I will pay more and will more eagerly pursue a sale with someone who has a proven track record. I used to deal a lot on Ebay as audiobeer but finally just couldn't take it anymore. But it didn't take long to figure out who you could look forward to dealing with and competing with on the last second sniping. I had over 200 positive feedbacks without one negative. I easily could have had 10 negatives simply by posting the truth about the way the other party handled the deal or the crap they sold. The bottom line is after a while you can get a good feel on how a deal will evolve by the way the other party answers questions and is willing to give his/her phone number on a higher dollar item. I have never been ripped off to this day but I have purchased items that were misrepresented. In the end if you do have 2 similiar items on sale and one seller has more positive feedback and the other is a newbie here like me, I'm going with the feedback.
I re-read my post above...I did leave the guy feedback, but it was not Negative feedback or even indifferent out of self protection. That was the only time I have ever had an issue on a product or delivery whether it be here or Ebay or anywhere else for that matter. I have a recent purchase somewhere and everything went great but after 3 tactful and polite requests the seller has yet to leave any feedback for me. That is really annoying when you don't do deals that often and can use all of the honest feedback you can get! I see other similar gripes above on people dissapearing after you have made a deal and agreed to terms. It's really low class to tell someone that they can have the item and then never even mail back but the ad pops up as "sold". Well, I'm the one on a saopbox now. Somebody else needs to kick it out from under me and have thier say for a spell now.