very valid point, I will keep up with this thread, then chime in my two cents worth, great topic Leicachamp.
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Suggested retail price vs artual prices items are sold at is a fact of life. The only exceptions are companires which have rules for it's retail partners of minimum prices allowed. Which usally means new stock must be sold at the suggested retail price. And only demo product can be sold for less.
The notion that some sort of violation of cunsumer trust (for the OPs plaint) is involved is silly IMO.
People who are in the dark (don't know what they are doing' is rampant in any market. And saving the stupid from themselves is a task only governments get invloved in. Usually to everyone's detriment.
So i the op is worried about the price of cables. I suggest he use the adage Buyer be wary. in any and all future cable transactions.
PS the worst offender in the insane cable prices suddenly becoming near worthless was Coconut Audio.
Who was one crazy dude.
I would assume from reading this post that RRP = MSRP (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price).
That being said, it is a valid point, but this game is not new. The cable companies are simply feeding off the public's demand to live above their means. Everybody wants a screaming deal. People want to say they have $10K tied up in cables and cords, when they actually only spent $2K. It's called prestige, or vanity, a common human trait that cable manufacturers seem especially willing to appeal to.
There are no major players that don't play this game to some extent. They mark their products price up high enough to leave plenty of wiggle room and still make huge profits. I have found a couple of smaller manufacturers who do not play this game, the price is what the price is. However, they will stay small because they do not play the game. One of them even suggests in his ads that this game is what is killing this hobby. I don't know that I'd go that far, as this hobby seems to be doing alright to me. Sure it is becoming more of a top down hobby, as prices spiral into the stratosphere, but that's merely a reflection of what has happened to our economic society in general.
Yes, fake prices are a joke, and they have been for many years now. There is no substitute for doing your own homework. There is plenty of information available on the web, it's not too difficult to see what any cable or cord has been selling for. If buying from a major player, I always figure in the 50% rule, that means that I know that the original owner paid around 50% of the list price. Sure, some have paid a bit more, but some have paid a bit less too. I think it's mostly the smaller players that get caught up in the really silly pricing, perhaps to impress their perspective buyers, and get their foot in the door. I've seen plenty of $2000 cables available brand new for $300.
We can blame the cable manufacturers all we want to, but the fact is they are simply using an age old marketing scheme that is proven to work on humans, as it plays towards their vanity, and inner sense of getting a "really great deal". We have met the enemy, and he is us. These marketing ploys would fade away if we really wanted them to, and stopped supported companies that offer obscene discounts.
I've see major brand SC's as big as your wrist,MSRP 3K. cut open showing a 22 gauge copper wire covered by 3 inches of cotton batting.Which would certainly cause them to sound DIFFERENT than most other cables, that most likely being a sales strategy and a profitability strategy that is complementary to the one being discussed.
I am not arguing whether a certain cable is worth X amount of dollars, but what the cables actually sells for in the market.
Some threads on the cable forum can go on for pages and pages, where the participants kind of keep to them selves the purchase price. When asked, the usual answer is " contact the manufacturer/company". It seems they dont want to hurt the company by telling the truth, or they believe they were the only ones that got that "special price" But who are we kidding?
I know i can do some homework by finding how much the cables sell for second hand, but some brands dont come on the market much. These products often discussed among members, but no much turnover second hand. Even when they do the info is confusing. A case in point. A power cable i am looking at says MSRP is $5750, Selling 2350 or make offer. Looking on Google another seller was selling 5 months ago with MSRP $2750, selling $1200. What the F
LOL! They are not protecting the company by not revealing the price they paid, they are protecting their own investment. Joe Blow gets a brand name cable at a 50% discount brand new, if he tells you what he paid for it, what chance does he have of selling it without a huge loss? The secrecy aspect is just a matter of protecting ones investment. It's really not rocket science. Normally you will find that very few people are willing to expose the value of an asset they purchased just so that a future buyer can potentially get a better idea of the true value of the asset, thereby driving down it's value.
I agree with you that most are protecting their investment, but i guess many off them may think that they were the ONLY one with that special price and that revealing it will upset the company.
I know because i have been caught twice before where i thought i got the worlds best price/bargain, only to find out when i tried to resale that the joke was on me!
i got the cable for 75% thinking i can not lose much when i sell. HA HA
Well that's how you learn Leicachamp.
Out of curiosity, did you tell everyone on the forums that you bought the cable for 75% off before trying to sell it? I'm sure that would have made selling it even harder if you did.
There was another thread a while back where the OP was upset because a manufacturer of an integrated amp which he had purchased, decided to forego the dealer network and sell direct, lowering the "new" price by 67%. He was obviously not very happy with the decision, because now brand new units were selling for less money than he paid for his unit on the used market. I doubt he'd be able to sell that amp without taking a huge bath. That's part of the frustrating side of this hobby. Try to focus on the happy side. ;^)
Excellent subject and post. The constant 50% off list price sales I see from some cable suppliers really devalues the product IMO. Everyone likes discounts but this reminds me of when the car companies were offering $5000 rebates. If the product is worth the asking price it should not be on constant discount.
Hypnosis is more efficient on group of people rather than on single individual and it's self-evident.
Market and hypnosis are huge fans of each other. I do often show original and reduced price at my retail location just because I'm not dealing with particular individual. There are ones that know the value and ones that read what's going on and believe.
Manufacturers convince wealthy crowd to pay several $k per cable and some agree and dive into belief that they improve performance and sound DIFFERENT. Some just don't. 50%off, 75%off or higher -- all it says is the magnitude of huge and unreasonable profit margin. Hey, How about I'll offer $75 for 3m pair of Nordost Odin? I betcha It'll still have a profit margin for manufacturer. It doesn't matter how different they sound better or worse, but DIFFERENT. No matter how convincing designers and manufacturers are, for me $10/m(not foot LOL) is the maximum price I'll ever spend on cables having the fact that my wealth and income is at or above upper mid-class.
RRP = Recommended Retail Price.
Guess some vendors needed to make statement with their products (usually new). And pricing seems the easiest tool into grabbing attention in order to be acknowledged (reckoned with at least) on same flight to those already more established forerunner top dogs. At the end of day, we (market) will be the final determining factor/judge as to the true value of those wannabe/aspiring cables.
Chinese manufacturers that sell identical or so called fake cables here or elsewhere via internet often claim that it's THEM who make cables and ship them over. Megapriced cables can therefore be purchased at small fraction of retail price bypassing brand distributers and dealers and saving huge money directly from China or HK.
Who's right and who's wong here?
I don't think that I'm the one to judge, therefore I simply opt out from that intimacy and completely eliminated myself as part of this market.
Moreover I'd like to have more think alike consumers so this clownade with high-end wires will finally dissapear.
RRP, is that like being down with OPP?
I think there are many dealers in high end audio that do what it takes to make a good comfortable living. Nice car, boat, vacation home, etc. Unfortunately to make it happen they sell out of area and with big discounts.
I once heard of a guy that sold Wilson speakers worldwide. He would get a demo line for 40% of retail cost, or say a $100,000 speaker for $40,000. He would flip the 100k speaker for 75k and be a hero to the buyer. New in box. Fly out and set it up, everything. Even take the client to dinner. Why not, he just made $35k on one sale. Multiply this times 20 and you are making real money....until one of those customers calls Wilson from the other side of the word to verify a serial number. They exercise their mouth for 20 minutes, next stop, graveyard with that line. Ok, pick up Magico, another run, etc.
I think there are a lot of integrity leaks in this industry, as in every, that devalue products and cheapen quality products. I know factually that some manufacturers even know of these leaks, but if a dealer is selling 300k in cables a year, he is rewarded with better deals and incentives.
Everyone is looking to make ends meet. And it isn't getting easier.
Just did a search 3/10/14. Vin2000, audiogon member selling Nordost cables due to financial hardship. Who buys a 3k speaker cable before going into financial hardship 30 times each year? He's a shady dealer or has a connection and is making $300 to several thousand per pop. Living the good life devaluing a product. Please correct me or delete if I'm wrong.