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Experimenting with reversing polarity to speakers

Using a single pair of Clear Day double shotguns terminated with bananas feeding Totem Forest speakers. Am using Audioquest’s diagonal connection recommendation for bi-wireable speakers (see page 4 at link below;

"Using Full Range Cables On BiWire Capable Speakers"). Jumpers are also Clear Day wire.

http://www.audioquest.com/resource_tools/LearningMods/UndrstndgBiWr.pdf

Came across some comments on the web about experimenting with reversing the polarity of speaker cables at BOTH speakers...i.e., connecting red to negative and black to positive. Am NOT talking one speaker out of phase w/respect to the other. Both speakers are in phase with one another.

Having made the change, I did think stage depth immediately increased and imaging focus was improved. The improvement was on the order of installing better cabling, I’d say. I am NOT asking for explanations for the effect. I started the thread merely to suggest an "experiment" to those that might not have considered it before.
Cheap fun.

This topic has been discussed previously on A’gon and EXTENSIVELY in the 2010 thread below:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/polarity-mystery-can-you-help-me-solve-it?highlight=sound%2Bi...

I readily admit it could be placebo (i.e., my imagination). Another well-regarded explanation relates to countering the effects of "out of phase recordings" (See Clark Johnson’s, The Wood Effect discussed at length on the Steve Hoffman forum and elsewhere). BUT the effect does seem to me to persist across multiple recordings (listening to various ripped CDs played off hard drive through Aries Mini>>Gungnir DAC>>Preamp>>Amp).

I’m inclined to think it’s related to some kind of room interaction and distance to listening point. More listening is needed to decide how consistent the benefit is. Of course, whatever the reason for it, the proof of it being a real improvement will be switching back to "proper" polarity after a few days and hearing a degradation in sound quality.

Best regards.


128x128ghosthouse

Showing 7 responses by ghosthouse

ghosthouse's avatar
ghosthouse OP
4,279 posts
 
jc4659 - Change in bass wasn't something that jumped out at me but now that you mention it, I do think bass has benefited as part of the overall improvement to SQ.  Like everything else I think it's a little more "in focus"...so improved definition (maybe!).  I run a pair of subs (SVS SB10) driving off speaker level inputs via jumpers to the Forests.  The subs are relatively new to me so I pay a lot of attention to the quality of bass.  I did check whether changing phase from 0 to 180 after the polarity change at the Forests had an effect.  That seemed to reduce bass output a bit.  I went back to running them at 0 phase.  Like I said, a change in the quality of bass didn't jump out as a distinguishing feature but it certainly didn't suffer, either.  

One observation I forgot to note previously was the apparent jump in SPL after making the change.  I'd listened to SRV "Dirty Pool" from Scorsese's "Presents the Blues" compilation before changing the polarity.   With the volume control at the same position, the SPL at the listening position was noticeably louder after the change.  I actually had to reduce the volume setting a bit.  

Thinking about this a bit more, the change in SQ could be unique to my set up.  There are 6 pieces of gear between the hard drive and the Forests (the USB out from the Aries Mini runs into a V-Link 192 and from their via SPDIF to the Gungnir.   Maybe there's something messing with polarity (phase?) in one of those signal transfer steps.  
ghosthouse's avatar
ghosthouse OP
4,279 posts
 
Hello Spencer.  A Happy New Year to you.  The intentional "out of phase" drivers was a factor in  that 2010 A'gon thread that I'd linked to. The OP's speakers were designed that way. Dunno if the Forests (2 ways) are...sort of suspect not.  But will have to find out more about that "Cricket" gadget.  Regardless of reason, however, experimenting with polarity for the entire speaker or individual drivers, where possible, might yield surprising results.      
ghosthouse's avatar
ghosthouse OP
4,279 posts
 
jc - easy enough to take the subs out of the picture via their on/off switch and evaluate polarity changes on the Forests only.

stereo5 - Yes indeed. I am using a tube preamp (Opera Consonance Ref. 50) as part of the current configuration. Is polarity reversing something you can ascertain from specs? Would be interesting to confirm or refute that idea for the Ref. 50. However, since the subs are getting signal from the Forest speaker posts (not from pre-amp outs) any change in polarity at the Forests should "carry over" to the subs too - I would think.

Regardless, since putting the Forests back in service and using the subs with them for the first time, I’d been slightly dissatisfied with the sound (compared to from these subs w/Prelude Plus floor standers). Not a forebrain-type recognition of a problem - more a sort of nagging impression after a listening session that things just weren’t as clear or focused as they might be. Since reversing polarity that little bit of (lower mid-range?) "muzziness" is completely gone. Listened to a variety of music today and things sound nice and coherent across the frequency spectrum.

Thanks for the input folks. Again, my main purpose in starting this thread was to give some visibility to yet another "tweaking" option that’s easy, free and low risk (assuming you turn off power before switching speaker leads) but has the potential to provide some real improvement to a system’s sound.

ghosthouse's avatar
ghosthouse OP
4,279 posts
 
Lowrider - Thanks for the comments. Did not know about the Gallo recommendation. Your description of the effects of reversing polarity at both speakers is consistent with what I experienced. It is one of the more significantly beneficial "tweaks" I’ve tried.

ghosthouse's avatar
ghosthouse OP
4,279 posts
 
Thanks, kalali.  Don't wish to offend but would you mind citing the source of that info about the Ref. 50?  I've not been too concerned trying to understand the cause of the benefit in any case, but again, thanks
ghosthouse's avatar
ghosthouse OP
4,279 posts
 
kalali - Thanks for that.  

atmasphere - since I thought I was hearing a benefit across multiple recordings, I'm thinking it is something system related (in the streamer/DAC chain).  Listening to the CDP only today, less certain reversing polarity made a positive difference with that gear.  
ghosthouse's avatar
ghosthouse OP
4,279 posts
 
Thanks for the input frogman (and encouragement). I have definitely grown in confidence about my "aural judgement" over the last decade. I’m not doubting what I hear relative to the benefit of a polarity reversal on the DAC chain. BUT using the CDP, that benefit is not as apparent. Polarity can affect phase though they aren’t identical things. I very much agree with you about the importance of phase "matching". I did in fact take some time to ensure a proper phase setting on the subs.

At this point in time, I believe normal polarity amp to speakers is best for direct CD/SACD playback in my room. Reversed polarity seems best for streamer/DAC playback - my primary listening source. A bit mystifying as to the "why" but I was again today struck by how improved general SQ appears to be with that reversal when listening to music from the Aries Mini.

I do completely agree with your observations about the surprising benefit of properly set up subs being greater than "more/deeper bass". AND those improvements, in my set up at least, cannot be attributed to "unloading" the main amp of lower frequency duty by limiting the main speakers low range performance with the sub’s crossover. I run my floor standers full range...sort of in parallel with the subs.   Even though the subs are coming in at 80-100 Hz, the resulting sound at much higher frequencies appears to be affected and for the better.  Addition of the subs really has been "transformative".

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