Experience with Tannoy Westminster Royal Gold Reference

Yes, they are indeed!!
For the sake of the discussion, I am actually using Esoteric Grandioso P1 & D1 as source and DAC with G1 masterclock, Coincident Statement Linestage for preamp with WE101D Psvane tubes, amps are Coincident Dragon 211PP MkII monoblocks with upgraded caps and WE211 Psvane tubes, and cabling is Tellurium top line Silver Diamond. I forgot to mention that the Tannoy are complemented by the Prestige supertweeter. The sound is very good, but i would like it to be absolutely great, and I think the element to improve is the amps. So any experience out there is welcome!!

Dear Melbguy1 and Marco1, thanks for your input. Audio Note sounds great, but unfortunately don't have the bank for it now, don't know if i will ever have actually!! To power these speakers i guess it would need to be the Kagura model, which is over $200,000 i think, and without offending anyone, i think these prices are ridiculous for home audio gear; more expensive than a very good house for just one element of the chain. I have a friend who is sound engineer at the english Arsenal football team, and he tells me that profit margins on such equipment is above 100%. Do these speakers really need tube amps?? What do you guys think of a very good SS amp playing pure ClassA with zero negative feedback, the likes of Pass, Boulder, or Gryphon? Wouldn't it have the quality and power at the same time. I have read and heard that many of us often use too low powered amps. If some McIntosh, which are very average amps, can do some good work with Westminster as already seen, than logically wouldn't a pair of, let's say Gryphon Colosseum or Pass XA200.8, work marvels at a price still high but more "reasonable"??

Hi Dover,
Thanks for sharing your experience which is certainly worth, and helpful!!
Tube preamp and ClassA solid state seem to be a good way, and very often come around as highly recommended all over the net, especially for large audio systems, whereas all tubes seems best for smaller scale setups.
What are you actually using with the GRF?
Thanks

thanks very much to all for your interventions. I appreciate very much. Lots of wise advise. The main reason i am here, is that i haven't got much chance to try many things out before buying, since i am not based in the US. I live on a small island in the Indian Ocean called Mauritius, hence the search for other experienced audiophiles.
That preamp/ amp impedance relation seems an important factor to consider, but so is the amp's output impedance i believe, which is determining of damping which in turn is necessary for large and hard woofers' control. My preamp output impedance is 500 ohms, would an amp input of 10K ohms be fine??
As for class operation, i have used many good ClassA/B and ClassA amps in my life, but i must say that to my ear ClassA has always been superior by far, with a sound as quick and transparent as AB, but adding a more complete, livelier, vibrant and musical sound. I would never accept a soft or sluggish or too warm tube like sound. I want thee sound, the one that is complete, balanced, with full harmonics, highly dynamic, full resolution, neither tuby nor dry, but one which is alive like the real stuff, with the full message, bringing tears in the end!!
I have tried several good AB amps on these Tannoys, but they just look at these amps with disdain, saying; you cannot move me and bring me to life!! In the actual setup, at all times, all ClassA amps (using zero negative feedback) i've tried have always been better. I guess the zero NF issue is an important one too with the Tannoy, which seem to demand the full signal. They are very good speakers, but they are difficult to bring to full blossom, as earlier said they seem to have "unlimited" potential.
I guess the likes of FM Acoustics and other very good AB amps are the exception to the rule, but again the prices are stratospheric. I heard the best of Ayre, very good amps but does not beat the Coincident Dragon MkII, so that would not be an upgrade!! I think Vitus, Pass, Boulder, Gryphon, Soulution and the likes will be the way.
Can we agree on this??

Maybe Absolare and Viva would be great, but again power seems limited...

Thanks Melbguy1. I can go to some USD60k, and actually i am having a great and rare opportunity around that price for a pair of brand new Gryphon Mephisto Solo (230V) from Europe, that's the monoblock version, with 200W ClassA with zero NF. They are usually 100K euros, so that looks like a great opportunity to own one of the best amps on the market. There is not much review of these in USA since Gryphon is not represented, but the shop which is selling it as well as the Pass Xs300, tells me that the Pass is sluggish in comparison, and the same Pass Xs300 have had the best reviews in the US. I suppose that the Gryphon Mephisto Solo must be a grade superior to the Vitus which are also recognized amps. Here is a review of the stereo only version: http://www.soundstageultra.com/index.php/twbas-menu/399-sonic-sorcery-gryphon-audio-designs-mephisto... & http://www.avhub.com.au/product-reviews/sound-image/gryphon-mephisto-394798
Dear David, my system already uses SR Black quantum fuses, but could not make the difference with the new Tannoy since it was already there before i completed the setup!!! However, i do not have audio grade wall sockets, but it is on my list of next and last small tweaks.

I am not a follower of Jeff Fritz, or not really anyone for that matter. I was not born yesterday, and very well know that reviewers may have interests here and there, if not their own good taste.
As said in my introduction, i take things all over the whole wide world, with as much discernment as possible, then i make a synthesis of it and get my end result, which in any case is not the best, but just maybe one of the best possibilities!!!
Everyone's sensible opinion counts, and I again thank you most sincerely for having helped me a lot in that project. You made me think and progress. We agree on very much the same things in the end anyway, and even if it was not the case, we can agree to disagree, even more so for the sake that we all love a good music with the best possible sound.
Enjoy life and the music!

Very good advise from Al, i will put to practice and contact I.Blume to check out. If need be, i have another high end preamp that might be better (Esoteric Grandioso C1), could try that as well.
Jim, i do like those speakers, they sound great with my top notch SET amp outfitted with the famous and great sounding Takatsuki TA300B tubes, but they just don't have the stamina for complex musical pieces at a good volume for a large room. Simple as that. That's why i termed them as difficult speakers, they need absolutely everything, and primarily big watts of big quality.
Melbguy1, was going to take the ones on Audiogon, but big hassle and additional cost for transport and to change them to 230V, and no ways to use transformer, and warranty is not transferable. I prefer to get new ones with my deal from Europe for just a few more bucks.

Thanks again to all for your input!!
Hi Roxy54, i said i wasn't ready to spend for USD200,000 and over, it is a big difference with $60,000 for an all European made and outsourced 200W ClassA zeroNF very high grade SS amp don't you think? just $140,000 less than the Audionote!!!
Melbguy1, i understand you like Vitus, and i am positive that they must be excellent amps.
The philosophy of Vitus going to monos is same as Gryphon doing monos, just more power and stereo separation, and that's about it i believe. But if i can get this additional quality at the cost of the stereo version, why not? The fact is that i am having that rare deal for Gryphon Mephisto solos at near half price, whereas i don't have the same for Vitus. As for taste, as you rightly put it, it is subjective, but it is also nice to hear and learn from others, so thanks again for sharing. The Mephisto has also some high degree of tube like sound to it, but maybe a bit more on the neutral side, and i think it could better suit the Westminsters who have some character.
Dynamics wise, the Gryphon beat the Vitus hands down, but all the rest is comparable i think. Both great amps, but i think i am not missing the deal and going Mephisto solos' way!!! I will inform and share my observations of the results if you are interested. I think such pairing will be sort of first of a kind, probably, and could be very interesting...
Believe it or not, i have experienced it, european gear is more expensive in europe than in the US. You can google on european shops for same products and compare with US shops, you will be surprised. For example, the Tannoy Westminster GR is over 35,000euros in europe, and around $30,000 or maybe even less in the US... In Europe there are big taxes (21% VAT) and on top of that the people are considered as ever milking cows, if i can put it this way (i am french speaking, so forgive my English if the imagery is not so good).

Yes Melbguy1, i totally got your point, and totally agree that MSRP don't reflect the actual and full musical quality of an amp. So far, all subjectively, my Coincident Frankenstein 300B MkII beat anything i have heard in pure musical terms, at any price, and may remain better in same terms over the Gryphon, but we all know they do not have enough control over the Westminsters.
My few main points and logic just is:
1- don't really want to wait till next year, and don't even know what price the SM-103 will be - no good prices available when new stuff comes on the market - often we have to wait one or two more years to get good deals.
2- Mephisto Solo is already preferred by many over the Vitus MP-M201, which are actually the Masterpiece of Vitus and easily better the SM102.
3- It seems reasonable to think that the Vitus SM103 to come will not beat their flagship MP-M201, or would the SM-103 become the flagship?
4- Jeff Fritz of SoundStage magazine reviewed the Mephisto stereo in 2013 and preferred it over the MP-M201, and he's reviewed quite some good amps so far.
5- I very recently wrote to him to verify, and he told me that he would go for the Mephisto without hesitation over all the others, except for the Boulder 3050 which is his preferred ($200,000!!)
6- The Pass Xs300 make unanimity in US, and apart from SoundStage, no one got to review the Mephisto Solo, so no real final opinion available in the US.
7- European shops and consultants that sell both Mephisto and Xs300 (about same price) prefer the Danish amps by a large majority.

Have you actually listened to the Mephisto solo, and on which preamp and speakers?

Yes Soundsrealaudio, monoblocks for me too, but 300B SET amps, only 8Watts/ch.
Wife wise, many of us in the same situation, some things get harder, like our hearing, and some things become less hard!!
I was thinking of our hearts, of course, they soften with time, don't they?
Cheers

Thanks Melbguy1!! Your system looks and must sound great. All the best for future upgrade... let me know when you do so, would like to hear about your choices and results.
I have designed all my racks myself, and use heavy amps bases made of good plywood, filled with fine rocksand, and i cover it all with real wood finish because i am a maniac on looks, too!! The racks are very much resonance free, but i am still considering Stillpoints; are they good?
Good idea to post a Virtual System, maybe some U.tube too...
Will let you know when it's up!!

melbguy1, thanks for the feedback. 2017 plans sounds exciting, impatient to see your system. Orders made for the Gryphon Mephisto solos since last week, should receive them this week, and will wait another week of burn-in to give some feedback (cables mostly burn-in already). They'd better be good, because i must say that the Coincident 211PP Dragon MkII are doing a really beautiful job with the Westminsters, but as said earlier, I want to push it further.
I.Blume from Coincident told me that 10k input impedance would be the minimum required for the Statement Line Stage which is 600ohms output, so that makes it maybe a little too just for the Gryphons. I also have one Esoteric Grandioso C1 preamp, which is a beautiful 66ohms output and has an impressive 100,000mF per channel. So if the Coincident preamp doesn't do, the Esoteric should control the Mephisto easily. Will remain to have the sound quality too!!

thanks Pani for your input. I am very open to try them out and was actually wanting to try one for my secondary system, but then a friend of mine who is a Pass representative (he owns the Xs300) told me that it wasn't good enough. If only everyone had the same ears and brain!! all would be much simpler...
I did not necessarily wanted an SS amp, what i wanted was excellent quality sound plus the power, and as said earlier somewhere, i want to really push the limits. Anyone not too pushy would be more than satisfied with the excellent sound quality (and with some power too) that I get out of the Coincident Dragon MkII, really really good. It is far from sure that the Gryphon will do a better job, and if it's the case, i may want to sell them back anyway.
From the Wavac to the Naim which you tried, which did a better job? did the First Watt do a better job overall? and which Prestige model do you have?

Thanks dragon_vibe, at first I thought your name would have a relation with the Coincident Dragon MkII... those are the ones i actually had the the Tannoy!!
As you can see in the thread, i have gone ahead with ordering Gryphon Mephisto solo. I was a few months ago considering OTL amps, but was not sure of their capacity to drive those big drivers. My choice for OTL was going towards Einstein Silver Bullet. But for now, will have to hear what the Gryphon can do.

Hi arthursmuck, thanks a lot for your post. Nice to hear your extensive experience.
I have very recently tried my very good 300B SET (Coincident Frankenstein MkII) on the Tannoy, and they play very well indeed, but the PushPull 211 DHT have done a much much better job. For price/quality ratio on these West.GR, the PP211 DHT are not less than excellent in my opinion - never tried 845.
I have received my Gryphon Mephisto a few days ago, and now it just is far ahead in all audio terms, not comparable to anything i had.
However, not yet got the "perfection" i am seeking, but still running-in and fine tuning with different preamps, and power cable which makes such big differences. I am nearly "THERE"...!
Will keep all posted when final installation complete in a few weeks.
Cheers

thanks for the latest posts. Interested with the Duelund interconnects as well. One can order with distributors or email direct to Duelund, all info available on Duelund website.

Hi to all those who contributed to this post, and to everyone else interested.

I promised to update on the system once finalized. Gryphon Mephisto Solo have been purchased, all components have run-in well, even if with hi-end it can improve over a year or more sometimes. The Mephisto Solo do just great, even if some other amps out there could have done better, but who can try them all !? Powerwise, they do not scare the Westminster at all, which play very well low and loud alike. Those Gryphon are just totally straight amps, no bull, no flaws, no musical preference, no lack of nothing, whether it be power, resolution, balance of tones, timbre quality or dynamics. They are just very slightly on the warm side, as i like it. On a scale from dry/sterile to very warm/creamy sound of -10 to +10, I would give them a 1 or a 2.

The sound is as perfect as i have ever been able to hear so far in my life. Cannot really describe, but just say that it sounds complete and glorious, with real moments of emotions, tears and breathlessness. The instruments vibrate so naturally each in their own acoustic nature and space and altogether at the same time, you are fully taken up in the musical scene.

Everyone visiting me lately, friends, family and mostly audiophiles, have had more or less the same comments: "it's not just music, it's an experience" or "I kept wondering and asking myself what I had just heard after getting back home, and couldn't listen to my own system for a few days before my ears got accustomed to it again". 

I must say that I am quite proud and satisfied, and yet there is improvement to be made at a later stage for the room and main power line, which are really not up to the system.

It has been over a year since I started this audio system, the journey has been very interesting, and fortunately fulfilling as well, so i am grateful since i know how much our audio mania can be disappointing sometimes.

The complete system will soon be uploaded on the "virtual system" as requested by some of you.