Ever hear a power cable make a huge difference?

Tvad, I think you misjudge me. I do post my experiences for others to do with what they may. I post most often against those who would question what other hear or who say that what others hear can be nothing more than the placebo effect. I hate the scam police and their arrogance.

I certainly would not rise to defending the Intelligence Chip were I concerned about image. I also cannot imagine how anyone on Audiogon can exert control. It would be like herding cats.

Tbg, You may hate the scam police, but in doing so don't you risk treading on another's freedom of speach.

It seems to me that they have as much right to express their opinion without your judgmental opinions of their thought processes as you. At least they do no harm, except of course for the sales of exotic equipment/tweaks the value of which is only immediately recognizable by those with SOTA equipment, set up, and ears.

Give it a break - you sound as Tvad suggests or, in the alternative, a frustrated salesman. Perhaps you are neither but that would make you an unusual exception.

if indiduals had thicker skin or weren't so concerned about what others do or say, there would not be endless arguments of a philosophical nature which don't accomplish anything, other than venting opinions.

Newbee, isn't a question of whose freedom of speech is being transgressed? They would have some, if not all, tweaks judged as "fraud" and a ripoff without any demonstration that this is so but rather just on their judgment and mock others who think otherwise.

I guess it is just my opinion that such positions do not contribute to any exchange of information and that I should just limit myself to such statements. God knows I am not affecting any of their opinions and am merely generating heat.

My problem is that after years of participating in peer review and teaching the scientific method with critiquing students' arguments about how they might assess an hypothesis, I have difficulties not making "judgmental opinions about others thought processes" and arguments.

All claims about magical power cords and interconnects should be viewed with great skepticism.

>>> "In other words, try them and listen. Only after listening in one's personal system can one decide if there is value in upmarket wire." <<<

What? And ruin all the fun for those who delight in circular argument, name calling, character assassination and "prove it to me in a chat forum" pointless debate?

What then, are all the professional "net-jousters" going to do with all their additional free time and pent up frustration...listen to music!? Nahhh. :-)

Do power cords make a difference? I visited the Synergistic factory last week and I concur with Brutusab. The Synergistic Research reference system is amazing and the power cord demonstration compelling- just don't stand too close to the Tesla Coil. It's going to be interesting to compare these new power cords when they come out to the best of best.

PS. They were working on something completely different that will give cable lovers and doubters something to think, rave, and rant about- I can't wait!

I find MIT Power Cords are extremely effective. I consider the basic Shotgun AC1 as a minimum and each step up provides significant results. Well worth an audition at whatever price point you are considering. They work very synergistically with the power conditioners I have tried as well.

Yes, in answer to the original question. Anyone who debates they don't make a difference maybe hasn't tried a PC that can make a difference. The change in sound can be obvious. It is more obvious for some components than for others.

I had switched from stock PCs to Nordost Valhalla PCs. Valhallas can make bass tighter and highs more detailed. For some equipment this was good, for others not so good. For example, for kicks I tried a Valhalla PC on my old Denon 2600 DVD player, and the bass became almost non-existent (not good). But it was interesting to hear such a difference. WMMV.

I think I'll stick to my original statement here.
"Why don't manuf. supply quality cable with the product?"
The answer of " products are designed to a price point" doesn't hold true in high end game. I don't think many manufacturers were considering price when building much of the product seen on the hi-end market. I'd really like to hear from a designer on this forum.
I'm not arguing that one cable sounds better than another. Thats personal and I couldn't care less, but if I were to order a pair of Vitus mono blocks, I cant see why they wouldnt be voiced on a supplied power cord!

Alun, the same answer applies to why they don't provide a better power supply that might not be so affected by the power cord-price point. But I must say that I don't know any designer that spends much time with power cord evaluation. Recently, I have seen a number of components that do not even come with a cheap power cord, suggesting how common it has become to leave these cords in the shipping box and to use the power cords that you prefer.

I suspect that most manufacturers think that they have properly "voiced" their components on decent power cords and that consumers will use their personal choices anyway.

>>> The answer of " products are designed to a price point" doesn't hold true in high end game. I don't think many manufacturers were considering price when building much of the product seen on the hi-end market. <<<

Alun,
Seriously? Then why don't high-end manufacturers only sell their "best" component in each category? Whether or not an electronics manufacture wants to admit power cords make a difference is not the point. They have many reasons, not least of which are consumers who "want" to believe all power cords sound alike, to claim power cords make a difference. Think about it, the minute a manufacturer admits power cords make a difference they will be shunned by people who like to believe all cables sound alike. Conversely, people who take the time to make comparisons discover cables sound very different from one brand to the next. Now if your electronics manufacturer of choice admits power cords do make a difference they will then be asked "which brand sounds best on your components." I doubt very many amp manufacturers want to answer that question as not all of their dealers sell the same brand they endorse or heaven forbid they recommend a power cord that costs thousands of dollars. Should they do this some people will conclude that their electronics only sound good if they spend a bundle on power cords. Manufacturers endorsing power cords or a specific brand is a standard Catch 22 if you ask me.

I revert back to my original response to your proposition that if power cords made a difference then manufacturers would include the best power cord for their products- it's the same reason speaker manufacturers don't include speaker cables and why electronics manufacturers don't include interconnects- price point and the fact no one cable will make everyone happy. I would rather purchase a product that did not include the cost of cables and get that product for the absolute lowest price then to be stuck paying for a cable of inferior sound quality and then have to pay for it's replacement.

LM

i have a great idea. designers should provide no power cords with amps, preamps and digital gear.

most purchasers of said equipment prefer to use after market line cords.

think of the savings and the ecological benefit of supplying components without line cords.

Mrtennis, some already provide no power cords, Accustic Arts.

Maybe cars should come without tires, too, so people can personalize the performance. ;) Then, you only have to spend an additional $1,500-3,000 to get the vehicle to work.

If equipment came without cables, what would all the "cable atheists" do? It would kill them to be forced to support the Evil Cable Empire!

Buy at Radio Shack.

Evil Cable Empire is a good moniker for them. It is sorta like a religion which is another bad thing.

Rwwear, I find your comment personally insulting. I am tempted to respond in kind, but I won't as it does nothing to promote good will or advance our hobby. If you've got a grievance with faith, keep it to yourself! Your comment has the effect of poisoning the atmosphere here.

I don't have to keep anything to myself DS if I don't want to. It's my opinion. You can disagree if you want but you stated yours and I responded.

Rwwear, I MADE A JOKE and you took the opportunity to turn it into a serious condemnation of religion, something that the majority of people in the world consider valuable and personal! Can't see that? Can't you see that your "opinion" was off topic and inapropriate?

Since you're so into freedom of expression of personal opinion regarding things metaphysical, I'll share mine. I'll assume that since you deride "religion" you are an atheist or agnostic - likely a Darwinist. My opinion is that it is the epitomy of intellectual foolishness to adhere to Neo-Darwinism, which posits that a process (DNA mutations) which LOSES INFORMATION at every mutation without exception(there has never been any mutation which has added information; please check the facts first before retorting)can bindly, purposely, accidentally construct a succession of increasingly information-rich biological organisms far more complex than anthing man has ever made. So, I'll refer to it as the Evil Darwinistic Pseudo-Scientific Empire. You a member of the Darwinian religion? If so, then maybe you'll understand my why your comment was offensive.

Douglas_Schroeder, you call them the "cable atheists" but they are really the fraud police. I can tell you from personal experience that it is best to just ignore them.

my experiences with power cables tells me that no doubt a difference is apparent to my ears. if you dont believe that do your own shoot out. thats how i experienced the difference. i work with wires and a lot of them in the elevator trade and would not have believed wire makes a difference. wrong maybe no difference for all else but when it comes to hearing and seeing the truth is wire matters. IMHO
audio horizons does not provide a power cord with there gear. though they will let you audition there cables.
this is a good thread sorry to see it going south some what. cant we all just get along and discuss audio matters and leave the non audio talk for other web sites.

Stltains, You're quite right. I'm willing to lay off the rhetoric, to let go of the argument. This is a very interesting thread, and I also hope it continues to reveal some good experiences people have had using cables.

I agree. I should not have said what I said.

Back to the original post, I recently had a similar experience with a new power cord that you had with the new Synergistic cord. I haven't experienced yet the new Apex cord using the Tesla technique, but it is intriguing to me and I would like very much to audition one some day. In the meantime, a new company, Fusion Audio, has come out with a trio of power cords using copper or a copper/silver blend of ribbons and foils and I am taken back at just how good they are. I have been a power cord junky for over 5 years now and have experienced some of the best cords out there. This new Fusion company has bettered any cord that I have ever tried. Over the years I have found a nice blend of ribbon cords with other types to be a good mix in my system. I have been particularly fond of certain ribbon-type cords especially on my tube monoblocks and tube preamp. There's something magical about the synergy of a good ribbon power cord with a good tube component. I cherry-picked a mix of Elrod and Electraglide to fine tune my system to be as natural and lifelike as possible and have been very happy until I tried these new Fusion Audio power cords out. They are superior in all respects to any power cord that I've had in my system. And what is really a neat thing for me and other budget conscious audiophiles is that the Fusion cords are less expensive than these well-known cords which they bested. I am a very happy man right now. Never have I enjoyed the musicality of my system than I am now with the addition of these new power cords. One of those rare times when everything just clicked in. Someone please slap me to make sure that I'm not dreaming?

Tvad,
Yes, the $1,200.00 is their suggested retail, but as they are a new company, they are selling all their cords at substantially lower introductory prices in order to get them out in good systems. Word of mouth is what they are hoping will get them accepted as a superior power cord that is priced very reasonably. These new cords are not only superior to the Electraglides, i.e. Epiphany X( I still have one of the originals) but are built much better with a lot more conductors than what Scott Hall used. A better comparison for price and performance would be to the Dream State power cord line. Even at full retail the Fusion Audio power cords are priced roughly half of the Dream State cords and in my opinion the Fusion cords are a more musical and neutral power cord than the Dream State. Also, the Impulse model is their middle priced cord at $1,200.00. Their entry level cord, the Predator, retails for $550.00, are the cords that I have on my amps. The Predators beat out a pair of Elrod Sig 3 cords in my system. The Impulse is on my preamp and it fully beat out the Epiphany X there. They also have a 30 day return policy. IMHO and YMMV.

Introductory pricing only initially to get acceptance in the audio world. I have a feeling that once the audiophile public gets the word of how good these cords are that they will eagerly pay the retail price, which is probably what they'll have to pay anyway soon enough. Have an open mind and try not to be so cynical. I have researched this company and the two guys that started it are honest and legit. There shouldn't be any comparison to Electraglide because Fusion Audio is nothing like Electraglide in customer service,meeting the customer's needs, musicality, and quality of construction. Electraglide is old hat. A lot of people had bad dealings with Electraglide which left a bad taste in their mouth over the deal.Fusion Audio is the new kid on the block and they are the real deal. I feel that they will be a breath of fresh air much needed in the Audiophile community.

At first glance the jacket and label on these cords bear a striking resemblance to Electraglide.

Copper/silver ribbon construction.

Heavy discounts

Could it be?

No Bill. Yes, there is a resemblance to the Electraglide cords, but it all ends there. No ties or affiliation whatsoever with Electraglide. I also was initially sceptical. Totally new company. I also didn't want any more dealings with Electraglide. The owner of Fusion Audio is a former dealer for Electraglide, but had bad dealings with Scott Hall so they parted ways. This parting of ways is the catalyst that caused them to decide to start a new cable company and make a power cord line that was both superior in construction and quality, but vastly superior in sound quality. In my opinion, they have succeeded with those goals. The introductory pricing is only temporary in order to get enough cords in systems for the owners to hear how good they are and spread the word of their superiority. Eventually, the company hopes to build up a dealership network where the retail pricing will go into effect. I had a talk with Kirk last night and they plan on going to some trade shows soon to have their cords in some of the room systems. The new owner, Eric Love, is a very honest man, in my opinion. He has developed a new power cord line that will be a breath of fresh air for many systems. And Bill, no I am not a shill. I know you're thinking that so let's get the record straight up front. I was one of the first to try out these cables. I did have to pay for them and if I didn't think they were the best there is, Fusion Audio has a 30 day return policy. Did Electraglide offer that?

Bill(Audiofeil), I apologize for implying that you might consider me a shill. I guess I'm a little paranoid about this as a shill is the last thing that I would want to be labeled. My over-enthusiasm got the best of me. I also apologize for semi-high-jacking this thread. The original poster's enthusiasm for his new Synergistic power cord brought out my enthusiam as well for my new cords as well. Synergistic Research is a well established company with a very good product line.

Yes. I was very,very impressed when I used one of MIT's top power cords with my ref level preamp; for which I already had excellent conditioning and isolation. Those last few feet can be an exceptionally worthwhile investment for those with a high quality system. Newbies or skeptics, please don't consider this a mere opinion-it's an essential truth- and one that may provide you "much" greater detail, dynamics and musicality from your present set up, enough to satisfy your upgrade bug(which I have found is usually stimulated by exactly the things a power cord can improve). By all means experiment at the very least.

I use the Fusion Audio cables as well, and folks, these are no Electraglides. I had EGs in my system, and without a ground connection, and with the subpar connectors, they caused havoc in my system. The Impulse and Enchanter have top notch build quality and parts, to go along with the excellent sonic qualities they bestow on some of my gear. I took advanatage of the 30 day audition policy, and after the Fusion bettered a Purist Dominus, VD Master and an Althias(sp?) to my ears, they are serious competition in this price range. Heavy discount? No, not really. Introductory pricing....absolutely and highly worth a try, imo!

A better comparison for price and performance would be to the Dream State power cord line. Even at full retail the Fusion Audio power cords are priced roughly half of the Dream State cords and in my opinion the Fusion cords are a more musical and neutral power cord than the Dream State.

Please enlighten us with the gear used to evaluate (compare) the Dream State with the Fusion. And which Dream State model was used for this evaluation? There is a middle-tier of Dream State models that are in line with the Fusion retail pricing.

What do you mean by musical? Please describe details not simply brush strokes.

And how can you conclude one cable is more neutral than the other? The minute someone claims neutrality, all sorts of sirens go off. Perhaps the Fusion only counter-balances some tonality flaws (lack of tonal coherency) in your system? .... and the Dream State brings out such flaws? This is what many people regularly refer to as synergy but is often only one band-aid on top of another.

There's always much coverage about tonality and the over-used term, soundstage. How did the two power cables compare with dynamic contrasts, low-level detail, piano decays and harmonic overtones, clarity of percussion, cymbals, etc?

As for Electraglide Epiphany (X) cables, I have a few of these and they work very well on solid-state digital gear and surprisingly well on the SoundLabs speakers. But they are totally incompatible with PLCs, tubed DACs, preamps and amps made by Manley, Aesthetix, CAT. With such components the lower half of the frequency spectrum is dramatically diminished. For $300-500, they are now a pretty good value in their limited use .... but their original claimed retail price of $6000-7000 was laughable.

Jafox,
So as not to ruffle feathers and go through the flames of what is or isn't neutrality( imo, the lack of colorations added to the recorded event) in my system, I will say that I like the Fusion Audio cords in my system. You might not. Do the Fusion Audio cords represent a major value to the consumer? I believe so. All the superlatives you mentioned, plus some, are very descriptive of the Fusion Audio power cords. I currently have the Predator model on my VAC Monoblocs and the Impulse model on my Audio Horizons TP 2.0n tube preamp. By the way, I will open a door a little for some flames and say that I am one of a few people who has tried all the Oyaide and Acrolink power connectors and didn't care for their sound. To my ears they color the sound with a signature that leaves a permanent glaze over the overall picture. It is this signature that didn't appeal to my ears. But then some people could like that added coloration and it might be the right "seasoning" their your system. YMMV. Try it, you'll like it...

Regarding Power cords anda big heads up here; I rhink many power cords do what they promise especially Kimber Kable, SHunyata and i was introduced to Electra Glide by its designer Scott Hall or William Scott Hall, h ewas coming out of trouble (of a personal nature) so I tried helping him with a medium size order which deliver without a problem back a few months ago, trying to introduce his cables in the LAtin American MArklets where ELectraGlide is practically unknown, so when I came back and placed a second order with him pro a pir of cables only he took my money and not delivered but also not answering my calls nro e-mails.
It just smeels like fraud form where I stand right now.

Just a warning for nobody else gets hurt doing business with this Gentleman.

Over and above that I like the Kimber PK10 silver on soem systems and teh Gold on other systems.
For tube amplifiers or preaamps definetely the Kimber PK10 SIlver is the way to go.

Too bad ELectra Glide OWner decided to mud his own name with fraud otehrwise would have been another choice to haev along with KImber, SHunyata and otehr fine products.

God Bless;

Heads up- I saw the new Synergistic Research power cords on their website last night. Given my positive experience with Tesla cables thus far I am interested to try these cables in my system.

LM

Which one is the one Brutus was talking about?

Leican man, thanks for the headsup. It looks like the Hologram cables use Oyaide plugs???? That would be great!

Used a Magnum AC 2 (~$550 'agon') on CD player. Wow!

what CD player did you use the magnum on? which cord did you change out?

Been gone to China and Vietnam for two weeks...Back for a while now.
I have almost been dying to say something ahead of time, but had to bite my tongue. While this thread has been developing, I had been finishing up a review of power cabling from MIT that addresses this issue of power cords directly. I put the very question of efficacy of power cords to the test. The review is now on Dagogo.com for general edification.
I don't know Psacanli, who just posted about his experience with an MIT Magnum AC2, but I refer in my article to the Oracle AC2 on my Rega Saturn and I also had a "Wow!" experience. The Telsa cables seem very interesting!

Jimman, Toshiba SD9200 DVD player, replaced Z Cord ll.

I just had to share this. I went to synergistic research the other day to get some cables re-terminated. I saw some power cords on the floor and decided to ask about them. Ted, said they were all prototypes, would I like to listen. He brought me into the demo room and played some great music. He switched out the preamp power cord for one of the prototypes and man was it noticeably better. Then, he left and came back into the room with a big smile on his face. He pulled a cable from the back that I swear was just recently built. He confirmed that no one had listened to it yet. He put the new power cable on the preamp and...................NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!! It was unbelieveable what a difference I heard. I could not believe how much bigger the sound stage grew, better focus, detail, and faster tighter bass. I had him switch the PC in and out because I just could not believe what I heard. Then he said "lets make it better." He brought it to his Tesla machine and gave it a quantum tunneling. He put it back in the system and to my surprise it was un believably better then what I had just heard. It now made the whole system easily sound 3 times as good. I just could not believe my ears. Then I had to know, how much could I get this cable for. I would think at least $2000 if not $3000. Nope, this will probably go for $500. Well Ted, sign me up for a few of those bad boys.

The OP hit the nail on the head in his original post- followed by some who had never heard these cables but felt compelled to argue the impossibility of it all. The moral of the story? You have to listen to cables- in your system- before you can come to a conclusion. As it turns out I agree with the OP's observations but this is in my system, with my equipment, and with all other cables being Tesla.

Your music may vary.

Cable "burn-in" is a loosely used term since the cable is being installed into a system.

Our findings lead us to conclude that the components will "burn in" as much as the cable.

It is not uncommon for things to "settle in" for periods extending 200 hours. It is system dependent.

If you have been using larger gauge conductors for a while the time it takes will not be as long.

If you have been running stock power cords expect it to be a little longer.

It is the same principle at work as when you change capacitors, transistors etc.

Marigo Audio Andromeda power cords. They come in two different tunings depending on the power supply they're connected to.