Ethics of last minute auction "poaching"


I was just involved in an auction that left a bad taste in my mouth. I had the high bid on an item for over 2 days and
literally in the last 60 seconds of auction a "poacher" came
out trying to sneak in a last minute bid in to win the auction. This caused the price to rise from $160 to $280 which I still won, but this seems underhanded to me. Attempting to win by last minute sneak attack! If you are interested in bidding on an item it seems common fairness to other members to come out in the open and not make your first bid with 60 seconds of auction ending! I know this is not outlawed, but ticks me off.....anyone else experience this?
megasam
This is a fairly common practice. I have lost many auctions in ebay within last 2 minutes.
I do not care for Audiogons policy of "Overtime" bidding. I believe it opens up the process for self bidding on auctions and in some cases forces the bidder to sit and watch the item if he or she really wants the product. I enjoy ebay's method where it has a set end time.
Its the people who bid too early that inflate the price unessarily. Look at the bid histories on just about any auction that is started at a low number. Usually there will be numerous bids at clearly cannot win. If no one bid till the last minute, the final price would be lower and the buyer would get a better deal. I've watched items for days and by the time it is to end the price is so inflated there is no reason to bid. You don't get any points for bidding early unless its a Dutch auction. Wait and watch. You will win some and you will pay less.
Sory about my speling.
Megasam, I disagree with you. As long as the rules of the auction are followed, all is fair. I believe in ethics when buying and selling, but an auction is a form of competition, and there is strategy involved. I think what is unethical is changing a deal once it is made. I have had this happen to me. After I made a deal, the seller backed out and told me he got a better offer. He asked if I would like to match it. I sold cables this week and while I was waiting for the deal to close, got a better offer. I would not back out.
I agree with Blbloom,hard to separate capitalism and strategy.I also have had unusual experience at very end of auction,so i learned to pretty much shine those on.Stay high,keep low,its an interesting time to be in tune.
Bidding at live auctions is an art. Professional buyers, and yes they are skilled, NEVER bid while the general audience is bidding. In effect, the general bidding is part of the auctioneers show. The auctioneer knows the audience will exhaust their bids and then the real buyer steps in to scoop up the item without competition. The same process applies in cyberspace. The fact that Megasams' "poacher" bid within the last 60 seconds indicates that he is in fact an amateur (the poacher). A real pro will time their bid
to within a few seconds of the auction end to prevent the possibility of a counterbid or overbid by a competitor.
Auctioneering 101.
Msnloeth, BLBloom and Going Once all hit it on the head with various points. Why telegraph your moves to "the enemy" that your competing against ? It makes no sense if your competing for the same item and there are only so many to go around. There are two types of people that end up with expensive or rare items. Those that can afford to outright buy it and pay face value for it or those that know how to manipulate the best possible deals that bring it down to their price range. Auctions are the same way. You either have to walk over the top of everyone else with a monster bid or do you best to camoflauge your attack and try to sneak in when nobody is expecting it. I will say that Audiogon's auction process is much closer to that of a real live auction, as those don't end at a specified time. As long as there is bidding going on, the auction is still open. Sean
>
Actually, it is called sniping.
Yes, it is called sniping....I agree, this is just how auctions work megasam, live with it! But, I also agree that the audiogon policy of continuing to extend the auction deadline as long as new bids keep coming in should end, and go with a hard "endtime" just like eBay does. Of course, by having this moving endtime, on average it will lead to higher sale prices, and since audiogon is structured to benefit sellers (and not buyers), well, now you can see why auctions are structured here the way they are.
I believe these people also are the ones who "cut in lines"
so they don't have to wait. When everyone else waited...
Fair? Hardly.
Actually, it seems to me that many of you are missing the point of the "Proxy Bid" type of auction as seen here and on ebay. If everyone just entered the maximum amount they are willing to pay, then someone will get it for less than that amount. I find it anoying that people bid at the last second not because I may get outbid but because of the lack of understanding how the proxy works. Even if someone outbid me by 1 cent, I can not complain because when I placed my bid I decided that $XX was the maximum I was willing to pay. If you were willing to pay $XX.01, then you should have bid that. If you do not win an auction, it is your own fault. If someone, in the last seconds jacks up the price, you still got the item for less than the max amount you were willing to pay. There is very little grounds for complaint here.
All auctions have their rules of game. If the bidder follow the rules then there is no question of Ethics.
It is grossly unfair to someone who happens to find an item of auction to his favour but he is not allowed to bid because the time remaining is less than 60 seconds from the stated auction time.
Megasam, you won the auction at a price you have voluntarily set. What is your complaint?
Do you imply that you are outraged by having to pay $120 more in the last 60 seconds?
Or do you mean that since you have put a bid then no one should bid it in the last 60 seconds?
Do you consider that there will be no ethical issue if someone put in a bid at 61 seconds before auction ends?
I think that auctions are all about strategy, judgement and discipline.

If a bidder hasn't made a clear decision about what they are willing to pay BEFORE they bid, then they get what they get.
Proxy bidding enables this. Bid what you are willing to pay.

I think that Audiogon's OT gives a better sense of fair play to bidders that may want to feel the excitement (or the PAIN) of bidding real time. I think that it can definitely help the sellers as well.

It's the nature of the beast. All's fair in love, war and auctions.
My contention is that people who "snipe" are attempting to win an auction by hoping they can sneak in a last second bid and other buyers don't have time to react or make another bid. It is a inherently deceptive, sneaky, misleading, but not illegal way to bid. I think they look for items that have a low number of bids, and hope no one has set their proxy much higher, and then can make their score. Sniping is not accidental, but a strategy that is planned out ahead. My complaint is I don't care for the practice of "sniping" and therefore I plan on avoiding auctions here and stick with regular adds, people who practice this may think it is a great strategy, I will leave them to snipe each other all they want.
Cutting in line ? Hardly. Doug's basic premise is NOT what an auction is about. Putting in bids "in an orderly fashion" would be just like the seller "taking offers" in a specific order. If that is what the seller wanted to do, they would have done that instead of putting it up for auction. Auctions are completely unpredictable in real life with no set ending time, so why should it be different here ? As it is, having a "set" closing time ENCOURAGES "sniping". A "pro" knows EXACTLY when to bid and knows that it would be hard to beat them, so they wait till the end and lull you into self-confidence. Having the auction go into "overtime" actually minizes "sniping" and allows that are interested the opportunity to "defend" their bid. As was suggested, place your max bid and then hope for the best. If you REALLY want that item, hang out and ride the wave until the very end. Hopefully you won't get drowned in the process. Sean
>
In a live auction, there's no time limit, and the guy who wins is the guy who's willing to pay the most for the item. (And he usually has to pay less than the highest amount he is willing to pay, because he only has to pay enough to top the next guy.) The way to re-create that online would be to scrap the time limit, and declare that the bidding stops when there have been no new bids for, say, 24 hours. I think Sean hit the problem on the head: It's the time limit that creates the sniping. OT mitigates it somewhat.
I don't know how pervasive this is, but the few auctions that I've been involved in (or followed for that matter), the winning bid was no bargain. On items that can be had new I've seen people bid more than retail, and then pay shipping. No warranty, no return policy. On items that are used I've seen them bid more than prices posted in the classifieds. The auction process is a bit of a pain IMHO, but I guess it's sort of a sub-audiophile hobby. Like people who are up at the crack of dawn for yard sales. Go figure. I'd rather just negotiate -- if you can't strike an equitable deal you're on your way.
Right on, Sean on all points you have made.

Last minute bids - the competition - is the nature of auctions.

Offering a set price and someone responding with a yes/no - is the nature of classifieds.

Megasam, maybe the classifieds are a better fit for your style of purchasing. The auctions may be proving to be too much of a hassle, and once something is a hassle-it's not so fun anymore - and isn't that why we do all this? to enjoy it?
Megasam: Your winning bid was at the last minute. You place a proxy bid. You delegated authority to Audiogon to "Re-bid" for you if someone place a bid higher than your current bid. If you let's say, bid $500 on an item that was currently at $49, without delegating authority to "re-bid" to Audiogon, the "current" bid would have been $500 when you place your bid, not $50. ---- Besides all that; the winning bid at all auctions held everywhere is the last bid place before the end.
If you go to UBid.com you will see that to place a "proxy" bid you have to use their "Bid Butler". If you do not use the Bid Butler, then if you bid $500 on an item that is at $50, the current bid jumps all the way to $500, just like a live auction if someone did the same.
Megasam's right. The auction system on Audiogon has it's shortcomings as a way to procure equipment, such as its being heavily loaded in the seller's favor and the way bids close.

Jostler3 is right that closing the bidding 24 hours (or some reasonable time period) after the last bid was placed would be an improvement. Then it would be more of a true bidding process and more convenient to *all* the interested buyers. This change would benefit the sellers by helping to insure the absolute highest offers are received and would make playing the game more convenient to the buyers.

BUT as Blbloom says the rules are known and it's not unfair to use them to one's advantage. If someone doesn't like the rules, they shouldn't play the game.

Personally, sitting in front of the computer following a bid closing is a poor use of time. When something of interest goes up for sale I want to negotiate terms to buy it, not play games. The "excitement" of an auction simply has no appeal and is, in fact, an unneeded aggravation for the reasons already stated. Based on what little attention I've paid to them, there aren't that many *real* deals to be had through Audiogon's auctions, especially with the allowance of hidden reserves. IMO, it's not a real auction unless the bidding starts at the minimum of what the seller will take. In its current implementation it's little more than a tool to try to get a jacked up price or to safely test what the market will bear.

To those who find auctions exciting I'd like to suggest getting out more. There are far better ways to get your blood pumping! But if that's what turns your crank, have at it. You won't get any intereference, or competition, from me. Do what makes you comfortable and ENJOY!
The days of finding great deals at these specialized auctions is over. Most people on this sight know what things are worth. If they don't, they better find out. Not many of us have money to throw away. Personally, I have a tendency to research things to death. That is part of the fun, and the only way to get a good deal. I used to go to garage sales and, every once in awhile, I would come across a great deal on a vintage guitar. No more. Now, so called experts price things so high that you could end up paying more than things are worth if you are not informed. I think it is perhaps due to the fact that information is so easily available, and we all seem to be in such a hurry.
How many of you who have sold things on Audiogon would be pissed-off and think is wrong for buyers to put more money in your pocket by bidding at the last minute?? Do you love it when you list a classified ad and a potential buyer offers half your asking price? Who of you think on a 14 day auction, for the person who bid the first day and then never logged on to Audiogon again for the next two weeks, should be entitled to special treatment solely for bidding first??
Should Audiogon get rid of proxy bidder and make it a "Straight" auction, where, if you bid $1000 and the last bid was $10, your bid get's registered as $1000 ??? This is how its done at Sotherby's and Christie's at their live auctions.
Proxy with OT gets my vote
Holy cow....you see something you want at an auction...you decide how much you're willing to pay for it...you place your bid...you either get it or you don't....it's not complicated...really....
I don't think sniping is necessarily pro-buyer. I've sold a few items on e-bay that were 'sniped'. In a few of the cases a previous high bidder who had the high bid for a relatively long time (say 12 hours on a one week auction) would write me, explain what happened, and ask if they could buy it for a slightly higher price. I always demure, but it's clear that an extention system would have yielded me a higher selling price. I do agree, however, that almost every problem is addressed if bidders actually use their high price when they bid. On the other hand I've bid on auctions where that high price moved up a little in the last hour or so...
Some auction sites have a 5 minute overtime rule, where the auction ends once 5 minutes pass with no new bid. Kind of like "Going, Going, Gone". ----- If I am not there at the end I alway bid the most I am willing to pay and hope for the best.
Auctions are for the "Big Boys" the rules are the same for everyone. STOP! crying! If you want to bid, BID, if not just look elsewhere.

AGAIN AUCTIONS ARE FOR ADULTS.
I attend regular auctions during the normal course of business. I'm in the car business and auctions are part of it. There have been many times I've been outbid by last second bidders who wait to see if others, including myself, have bid less than what they ultimately will pay. The auction process is interesting to say the least; emotions play a big role and there are many times when someone will pay more than they wanted to just because they figure they're "in for a penny, in for a pound" and so they stay in the auction longer than they should and pay the price. The secret, if there is such a thing, is to calculate what you are willing to pay at most for what your bidding on and have the "balls" to walk away once the price exceeds that figure. Auctions can be fun. Once in a while you might get a great deal on some piece of equipment that's worth more to you than it is to others. It's not a life or death siuation and remember this is supposed to be fun!!
Yea. I do it. It's a free market.
Actually auctions are for those that want to participate. Nothing more, nothing less. Being "for adults" or "the Big Boys" has nothing to do with it as Audio4fun just proved. Man, talk about crying!
Megasam, That last minute sniping was probably the seller. I know a dealer who does this all the time, and he always gets more money out of the unsuspecting buyer.
ruptured@me.com (ouch!) that's called *shill bidding*, now we're talking unethical.
Put in the maximum you want to pay for the item and stop whining! It's an auction for cryin' out loud! All bids are fair bids till the auction is over. If you won the auction you still got the item for what you were willing to pay.
Wrong, Joysjane. All bids, within the rules of the auction, are fair. Not in the case of the seller inflating the price to reach the buyer's maximum bid. That is wrong and unethical, as Angela100 stated. Period.
Blbloom,
I agree in that text. I didn't mean a seller inflating his own auction. I meant it in the text of the person who started the thread. Losing an item because of a last minute poacher is well within the rules of an auction! Sorry I wasn't CLEAR enough! Can you tell me how a seller can inflate his own merchandise? Would you have to have a seperate registered name/e-mail/address? I know that when you put something up for sale, as in ebay, the seller cannot bid on his own auction. So, could you please enlighten me on how this is done? NOT THAT I WAN'T TO DO IT!!! But just how do these people do this dasterdly deed?
Just as those persons inflate their merchandise up for sale, I would like to know how to vote for myself on these threads and erase my 2 negatives on the last post. Ha! Ha! Ha! Just kidding.
Is it ethical to pace yourself during a running race and sprint at the end? Any strategy to win within the rules is fairplay.
Joysjane. Thanks for clarifying. To answer your question, I have no knowledge of a seller inflating their price by bidding themselves or getting someone to do it for them. I know it would be easy to do if one is determined. I was only responding within the context of Ruptured's post. In response to your second question, I suppose you could vote your forum feedback in the same way, but in this case, I did it for you.
Blbloom, Back at ya.
on Ebay, there have been cases of people in *cahoots* with one another. A partner bidding the auction up (kinda like 3 card monty on the streets of NY). It's all *scam artist* shenanigans. If found out, these people are removed from registration (in otherwords, kicked out on their.... duffs)
Hmm...interesting now that we happen upon shilling. I too operate a tiny used auto business, relying on cars I carefully preselect at live auctions. As these are not "absolute" auctions (where the seller has no right of refusal), but where the seller can refuse to sell (sort of like a hidden reserve on eBay), it's interesting to note that the use of shills has diminished over the years. When my ears were wet in the 80s I was horrified to learn that an owner's employee had bid against me. Sometimes I would discover it in situ, and let the shill "win", resulting in an embarrassing "no-sale" for the seller (who still has to pay aution fees, wait another week for the next selling opportunity, etc.--very inefficient!).
Most experienced buyers learn to ignore shills with an annoying shrug aimed at the seller/auctioneer. The auctioneer then might have to do some fast-talking to back the bid down one increment to save the sale to a real bidder. One lesson here is that I ALWAYS respect my maximum bid (like the eBay proxy system), and thus only get tangled up when I'm being shilled BELOW my max. If I discover the shill I walk up to the seller and exclaim "hey, c'mon!", which usually results in a sale to me at my previous bid, or stops the proceedings, wherein the seller announces his minimum requirement (reserve), which is either agreed upon or not.
Human shilling has thus grown to be seen as silly and inefficient rather than unethical.....
Even more interesting is to note that "chandelier" shills are extremely prevalent! The auctioneer simply pulls false bids out of the air! No matter how fast I look around, it can be quite impossible to discern if a competitive bid was really winked, or whether it was "pulled". Sometimes I'll shrug with annoyance at the auctioneer, who will either shrug ("C'est la vie...I have a requested minimum I gotta get to or he won't sell it to ya!"), or a response of "Don't worry, he's real", or, my favorite: "You watch me, I'll keep an eye on him!" which in addition to being unsettling, can really get you biddng up to your max pretty quickly. Often I've been the phantom bidder used for fake bids if I happen to be sitting in the auctioneer's vision's "sweet spot". If I happen to look up at the auctioneer and notice that he has me "bidding" against a real bidder, he may simply offer thanks with a smile, noting his gratitude for having at least a human body to use to pump the price! But many times that's the point. The auctioneer IS working for the seller (just like Audiogon's OT), and often has to use controversial techniques to get QUICKLY up near the seller's
spoken-to-him reserve. Otherwise the auction is very slow, and fewer items are sold. It's when the shilling process continues well past that reasonableness, like when a newcomer is "pulled" up for
quasi-entertainment purposes, that it gets unethical. One can see the gears in that novice's head spinning furiously as he walks over to the settlement desk. "How'd I get to bidding so much--and SO fast...and I thought there was nobody else there!"
There's a fast learning curve in action!
Note that this entire process averages 45-75 seconds per car! Yup...always about 60 cars/hr. You can set your watch to it, week after week. "I've got a 97 Outback you should check out, Ern. Number 185...go through about 12:30", etc......
Lease company auctions are even more fascinating, as the minimum reserves are sometimes high, and predictable if many items are similar. Thus the auctioneer will either take a strategy of starting at the reserve, and flushing the car through quickly, or starting below that, and "chandeliering" you like a pendulum (as fast as 4Hz!!) up to the "floor" price.
In that way cars are auctioned at the rate of up to 200 per hour!! And yet on eBay I too join you and complain about "owning" an item by bid for 7 days, or ten hours, and then being sniped? HA! You ain't seen nothin' yet, guys! And the funny thing is, no-one gets
heated about this stuff anymore. You just figure what you want to pay, and hope that you'll get lucky. For years now I've been trying to organize buyers "trusts" so that my buddies and I compare notes before an auction and decide who wants what the most, so that at least the Subaru cult doesn't overcanabalize itself. Most of these guys are fierce independents from Maine (yup, the beloved "maniacs"), and believe me it doesn't take much for them to break ranks and jostle each other secretly or openly to fill their inventories.
Often enough I'll suggest that I REALLY want a particular car, and plead with my compadres to not bid against me, but it's rare that that can happen. Some Jungian collective unconscious spurs everyone to make sure that we all pay a sufficient minimum to be "fair". But fair to whom? The group? The CAR? Rejoinders such as "well, I may havta push ya a bit" or "I'll be right there behind ya", or "the car does X$ fer sure" are all benignly stated (and accepted) notices that I'm going to have to pay maybe $500 or $1000 more than I had hoped, or, of course, more often that I simply will be outbid (since I'm disciplined with my maxima). Only certain arab wholesalers operate as a buyers
trust, where one person bids, and then a coin is flipped to see who gets to sign for the purchase. This incenses the auctioneer/seller duo! The Maniacs don't understand the laws of probability, and all claim that they always lose on "flips". Better that they bid each other up to the stratosphere than take turns or flip! There's EXTREME capitalism for ya!
Sorry if this disertation was too tangential. I've been on a decade-long quest to introduce a little benign socialism into the automotive auction process so that we ALL get to eat, but mostly to no avail. I even see guys "bump" each other up one bid increment while walking buy an auction lane just as a "hello" greeting. $100 wasted to say hello? .............
I'm glad to see there's less tolerance for the "I'll put my cable up against yours" bragadoccio around here, but in a way it was just a laughably puny display of male bucking that capitalism entrenches as a professional modus operandi.
I'm not absolutely sure about Audiogon OT, except that it does mimic a live auction better; it's important attribute may be in its dilution of electronic sniping, though, right?
Remember that auctions are very efficient markets that provide coincident, realistic value-setting. The fact that Audiogon (and eBay) auctions are randomly sprinkled instead of staged at "market" times is a large reason for the grumbling, as strange human behavior permutations seem to result in
widespread dissatisfaction. Maybe Audiogon should organize a weekly auction? Good night, folks. Ernie
"cannibalize" (sp)
Hmm...interesting now that we happen upon shilling. I too operate a tiny used auto business, relying on cars I carefully preselect at live auctions. As these are not "absolute" auctions (where the seller has no right of refusal), but where the seller can refuse to sell (sort of like a hidden reserve on eBay), it's interesting to note that the use of shills has diminished over the years. When my ears were wet in the 80s I was horrified to learn that an owner's employee had bid against me. Sometimes I would discover it in situ, and let the shill "win", resulting in an embarrassing "no-sale" for the seller (who still has to pay aution fees, wait another week for the next selling opportunity, etc.--very inefficient!).
Most experienced buyers learn to ignore shills with an annoying shrug aimed at the seller/auctioneer. The auctioneer then might have to do some fast-talking to back the bid down one increment to save the sale to a real bidder. One lesson here is that I ALWAYS respect my maximum bid (like the eBay proxy system), and thus only get tangled up when I'm being shilled BELOW my max. If I discover the shill I walk up to the seller and exclaim "hey, c'mon!", which usually results in a sale to me at my previous bid, or stops the proceedings, wherein the seller announces his minimum requirement (reserve), which is either agreed upon or not.
Human shilling has thus grown to be seen as silly and inefficient rather than unethical.....
Even more interesting is to note that "chandelier" shills are extremely prevalent! The auctioneer simply pulls false bids out of the air! No matter how fast I look around, it can be quite impossible to discern if a competitive bid was really winked, or whether it was "pulled". Sometimes I'll shrug with annoyance at the auctioneer, who will either shrug ("C'est la vie...I have a requested minimum I gotta get to or he won't sell it to ya!"), or a response of "Don't worry, he's real", or, my favorite: "You watch me, I'll keep an eye on him!" which in addition to being unsettling, can really get you biddng up to your max pretty quickly. Often I've been the phantom bidder used for fake bids if I happen to be sitting in the auctioneer's vision's "sweet spot". If I happen to look up at the auctioneer and notice that he has me "bidding" against a real bidder, he may simply offer thanks with a smile, noting his gratitude for having at least a human body to use to pump the price! But many times that's the point. The auctioneer IS working for the seller (just like Audiogon's OT), and often has to use controversial techniques to get QUICKLY up near the seller's
spoken-to-him reserve. Otherwise the auction is very slow, and fewer items are sold. It's when the shilling process continues well past that reasonableness, like when a newcomer is "pulled" up for
quasi-entertainment purposes, that it gets unethical. One can see the gears in that novice's head spinning furiously as he walks over to the settlement desk. "How'd I get to bidding so much--and SO fast...and I thought there was nobody else there!"
There's a fast learning curve in action!
Note that this entire process averages 45-75 seconds per car! Yup...always about 60 cars/hr. You can set your watch to it, week after week. "I've got a 97 Outback you should check out, Ern. Number 185...go through about 12:30", etc......
Lease company auctions are even more fascinating, as the minimum reserves are sometimes high, and predictable if many items are similar. Thus the auctioneer will either take a strategy of starting at the reserve, and flushing the car through quickly, or starting below that, and "chandeliering" you like a pendulum (as fast as 4Hz!!) up to the "floor" price.
In that way cars are auctioned at the rate of up to 200 per hour!! And yet on eBay I too join you and complain about "owning" an item by bid for 7 days, or ten hours, and then being sniped? HA! You ain't seen nothin' yet, guys! And the funny thing is, no-one gets
heated about this stuff anymore. You just figure what you want to pay, and hope that you'll get lucky. For years now I've been trying to organize buyers "trusts" so that my buddies and I compare notes before an auction and decide who wants what the most, so that at least the Subaru cult doesn't overcanabalize itself. Most of these guys are fierce independents from Maine (yup, the beloved "maniacs"), and believe me it doesn't take much for them to break ranks and jostle each other secretly or openly to fill their inventories.
Often enough I'll suggest that I REALLY want a particular car, and plead with my compadres to not bid against me, but it's rare that that can happen. Some Jungian collective unconscious spurs everyone to make sure that we all pay a sufficient minimum to be "fair". But fair to whom? The group? The CAR? Rejoinders such as "well, I may havta push ya a bit" or "I'll be right there behind ya", or "the car does X$ fer sure" are all benignly stated (and accepted) notices that I'm going to have to pay maybe $500 or $1000 more than I had hoped, or, of course, more often that I simply will be outbid (since I'm disciplined with my maxima). Only certain arab wholesalers operate as a buyers
trust, where one person bids, and then a coin is flipped to see who gets to sign for the purchase. This incenses the auctioneer/seller duo! The Maniacs don't understand the laws of probability, and all claim that they always lose on "flips". Better that they bid each other up to the stratosphere than take turns or flip! There's EXTREME capitalism for ya!
Sorry if this disertation was too tangential. I've been on a decade-long quest to introduce a little benign socialism into the automotive auction process so that we ALL get to eat, but mostly to no avail. I even see guys "bump" each other up one bid increment while walking buy an auction lane just as a "hello" greeting. $100 wasted to say hello? .............
I'm glad to see there's less tolerance for the "I'll put my cable up against yours" bragadoccio around here, but in a way it was just a laughably puny display of male bucking that capitalism entrenches as a professional modus operandi.
I'm not absolutely sure about Audiogon OT, except that it does mimic a live auction better; it's important attribute may be in its dilution of electronic sniping, though, right?
Remember that auctions are very efficient markets that provide coincident, realistic value-setting. The fact that Audiogon (and eBay) auctions are randomly sprinkled instead of staged at "market" times is a large reason for the grumbling, as strange human behavior permutations seem to result in
widespread dissatisfaction. Maybe Audiogon should organize a weekly auction? Good night, folks. Ernie
Subaruguru,
Your post brings back some fond memories of my father taking my brother and I to Jimmy Spear's Auto Auction in Orlando, Fl. in the late 60's early 70's. Pop had a used car lot and would take us to the auction with him. My brother and I were more interested in throwing rocks at the geese, ahhhh... those fond memories. They did feed the dealers well though, some of the best fried chicken and slaw I've ever had. Sorry folks for getting off of the contents of this thread.