Equipment Rack

Oleschool,

And speaking of school, education is what’s left after you forgot eveything you learnt in school.

cheers

Hmm well gee wilikers i may not be all book smart and have fancy Sunday clothes. 😁 But i must say reading the banter on this thread is like a comedy skit ..  And my chuckle today was on the questions on ebay .. And at 50 yrs old geoff i may have a few things outside of audio gear i could teach you . Believe it or not  

Ps i have a degree in music theory for whatever thats worth lol

@geoffkait  I am not trying to be at all snarky here, but is that eBay posting a gag of some sort.  The pic looked to show a nicely crafted product but the write-up sounded like a comedy bit followed up by the dismissive questions.  This whole thing may be well known to many but predates my recent involvement with the forum.

Just wonderin'

: )

hifiman5
@geoffkait I am not trying to be at all snarky here, but is that eBay posting a gag of some sort. The pic looked to show a nicely crafted product but the write-up sounded like a comedy bit followed up by the dismissive questions. This whole thing may be well known to many but predates my recent involvement with the forum. Just wonderin’

Actually, it’s not an eBay listing, it’s an Audiogon listing for Machina Dynamica’s brand new isolation stand that mimics the biological capabilities of the woodpecker. The woodpecker is able to withstand very high negative g’s on the order of -1000 g whilst pecking wood, thus preventing brain damage or even death, because of unique biological characteristics of the tissue and bone surrounding it’s brain that absorb and dissipate the shock and vibration. The active material in the Bio Mikro G isolation stand is micro-scale glass beads that behave like the spongy tissue surrounding the woodpecker’s brain. And the bamboo mimics the bony material of the Mr. Woodpecker’s head.

Geoff Kait
machina dynamica
no goats no glory

@geoffkait My bad on the ebay listing instead of Audiogon.  I just looked at the ad. again.  Is the stand designed to support components within a certain range of mass?  It looks like it could be applicable to supporting a large power regenerator like a PS Audio P10 or a sizable amplifier.

hifiman5
@geoffkait My bad on the ebay listing instead of Audiogon. I just looked at the ad. again. Is the stand designed to support components within a certain range of mass? It looks like it could be applicable to supporting a large power regenerator like a PS Audio P10 or a sizable amplifier.

The dimensions of the top plate are 18x12 so the Bio Mikro G can isolate a range of components, from turntables to preamps to CD players to amps to power conditioners/power regenerators to small or medium size speakers. The Bio Mikro G is about two inches high and contains about 5 lb of glass microbeads below the top plate. All wood is bamboo. Viscoelastic feet support the stand.

Geoff Kait
machina dynamica

Good People:

I came across a fine piece of scholarly work from  an old Stereophile Magazine regarding the numbers of techniques for vibration control. Check this out. It is scholarly yet written for the layman to understand. I think it may give understanding and change the tenor of this discussion.
http://www.stereophile.com/reference/52/index.html#7gKzV9vFIbL28AQH.97

Yours, Aye
Kavakat1

kavakat1
19 posts
12-08-2016 5:11pm
Good People:

I came across a fine piece of scholarly work from an old Stereophile Magazine regarding the numbers of techniques for vibration control. Check this out. It is scholarly yet written for the layman to understand. I think it may give understanding and change the tenor of this discussion.
http://www.stereophile.com/reference/52/index.html#7gKzV9vFIbL28AQH.97

Yours, Aye
Kavakat1

Thanks for posting the link to Bad Vibes that was published in Stereophile more than 20 years ago. Actually, rather than address a "number of techniques for vibration control," the article focuses almost exclusively on vibration isolation, which at that time was relatively new to audiophiles. As Shannon Dickson points out the article the inspiration for his article on Vibration Isolation was the Townshend Seismic Sink and the Vibraplane, both of which operate according to the mass-on-spring concept.

What made the article so scholarly, as you characterized it, was actually that it was the first article in an audiophile magazine to address vibration isolation in such depth.

cheers,

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica

Hello Everyone,

Hope I am not veering too far off topic....

Experimenting with wooden cutting boards as platforms for speakers, cdps and amps. Would be most grateful if I could get some questions I have answered...

1) Ikea Aptitlig ...are they carbonized bamboo...or?

2) Has anyone compared the Ikea bamboo vs maple or walnut as platforms for cpd and/or speakers? Sonic differences?

Thanks.

No, but I went to Ikea to look at them (as well as bookcases for LP storage). For $15, worth a try! Keep the receipt---if you don't like them, return for a refund.

geoffkait
hi 
as for the townshend podiums they do not just isolate the speakers from ground born vibrations , they allow the speakers to float so theres is no room interaction between the speakers and anything else ,a speaker being played without the use of a podium will vibrate threw the floorboards and  walls basically everywhere so the vibrations will also enter the electronics and the other speakers in a 2 channel stereo system or enter all 5 speakers if using a home cinema system , i have experienced many different loudspeakers being placed on podiums and the results are always spectacular , it makes you realize that this level of isolation to your loudspeakers is so important, when isolating your hifi system the most important place to start is the loudspeakers , once they are completely isolated  the rest of the system is then not affected by ground born vibration which has always been a major issue , with you speakers successfully isolated on the seismic podiums you can then look at isolating the rest of your hifi from suspected vibrations generated by the components there selves , townshend audio seismic platforms or seismic pods are a great place to start , they are very effective with all types of equipment and will handle any weight from cd players to huge amplifiers the platforms come in various sizes so you just need the size of your equipment and the weight ,its the same process for your loudspeakers your require the footprint and weight of each speaker then you can choose the right size pair of podiums for your situation, i know there are lots of isolation ideas and products on the market , the townshend audio seismic isolation products are the result of 50 years of R&D and are backed up by engineering facts no snake oil or magic dust i have heard all the seismic products in various hifi situations and the results are always spectacular the biggest bang for the buck is the podiums for your speakers after hearing the difference from just the podiums and no more floor bourne vibration entering your speakers or electronics you will already be very happy with the results already but for piece of mind you could still isolate your electronics to completely finish the job using the best products on the market with measurements and 50 years of R&D behind them there is not any other company i know of that can offer these facts and that have been around as long as max townshend the seismic podiums are maybe the biggest break threw ever in the reproduction of recorded music they really are that good and not a speaker spike in site check them out you will then know exactly why im so convinced and so full of praise for them please google Townshend audio in the uk and take a look at there award winning products regards john 

Huh? I never said any such thing. It’s because of the ground borne vibration that EVERYTHING must be isolated. My products for Subwoofers and some speakers do the same thing as the Townshend thingies - isolate the rest of the system from the speakers.

geoffkait
hi 
im sorry i am very new to these forums i was replying to you after you mentioned the Townshend audio you tube video , i thought you got the wrong end of the stick about the podiums im very sorry nothing i wrote was meant to offend , this thread i believe was regarding using stillpoints with or without a expensive rack, i personally do not like the changes stillpoints make to the electronics i have never tried them under loudspeakers, even stillpoints recommend isolating your speakers first once you have reduced or eliminated any vibrations from your speakers if you have the budget you could buy a nice rack , and yes you can then change the sound with the stillpoints as long as you have the room between the shelves. its a very expensive approach. i did this i used podiums for my speakers that completely eliminated floor vibrations i then used a seismic rack with adjustable shelves and then used the stillpoints SS and ultra 5 under my equipment , i didnt like the sound with the stillpoints so i sold the lot and the money i got paid for the podiums and the rack so i ended up with a much better sound than i started with and no stillpoints 

hi
i do not believe spending several thousand pounds on a rack is needed unless its made out of gold and diamonds, concentrate on speaker isolation have a good listen to your system with your speakers completely isolated from the room then decide if further isolation is required if you already have a rack cheap or expensive it doesnt matter try placing clearlight audio RDC cones underneath your equipment to see if you enjoy any further changes to the sound , for the money they are very good they seem to concentrate on improving the sound without any flavour or discolorations of there own.i would try your stillpoints under your loudspeakers talk to stillpoints for there exact recommendations but i seriously recommend you contact your local townshend audio dealer and arrange a demonstration of the seismic podiums everytime i have witnessed such a demo the sound becomes absolutely incredible it questions the need to isolate any further , if you like the podiums which i know you will you could buy the townshend  rack its  2500 dollars or so and has built in isolation pods at the bottom stopping any vibrations entering the rack. you can still further isolate with the seismic pods under your equipment in sets of 3 or 4 that would be the ultimate the complete job down, after going this route i found that the stillpoints really colour the sound the mini was ok a little forward the ss very full on and not natural sounding which was not what i wanted to achieve the ultra 5s cost an absolute fortune just had a price increase in the uk 670gbp each i believe i needed 8 to isolate my speakers and im not convinced or had any proof that they actually work like i said i sold all mine and have never looked back im getting magnificent sound now with the townshend products i hope my story helps good luck   

mains - you might possibly be mistaking me for someone else as I never mentioned the Townshend video. I am a strong proponent of isolating everything due to the deleterious effects on the audio signal of seismic vibrations - produced by traffic, wind, ocean tides, speaker feedback, subways, footfall, local construction projects, Earth crust motion, etc. Generally speaking I eschew racks since most of them exacerbate the floor borne seismic vibration although I can certainly appreciate that racks organize one’s components. I also do not favor any vibration isolation device that employs rubber or really any soft materials whether for damping or any other reason. As far as your experience goes, everyone has a story and yours is neither better or worse than another's. 

Shouldn't the source components be in a different room than the listener/ speakers so the sound waves don't vibrate the electronics?

hi geoffkait 
heres what im referring to 

geoffkait5,196 posts09-17-2016 11:11ammains
3 posts
09-17-2016 5:12am
YOUTUBE Townshend audio How to isolate speakers from ground borne vibrations.

while it is probably true that the Townshend isolation devices prevent structural ground borne vibrations from getting up into the speakers wouldn’t the more important function of the Townshend iso devices be to prevent the speaker vibrations from getting down to the floor thus possibly producing what we generally refer to as acoustic breakthrough? Besides the speakers are going to be vibrating whilst playing anyway, so there’s not much the Townshend iso devices can do to alleviate that speaker vibration and it’s affect on the internal crossover, speaker input connectors, wiring, etc. inside the speakers, no?

Excerpt from Townshend website:

"Seismic Isolation Podium

Designed as a range to accommodate any size and weight of speaker – standmount plus stand, floorstander or subwoofer – the Seismic Podium breaks the acoustic connection between the floor and the speaker, preventing the passage of deleterious vibrations both to and from the speaker cabinets. For a detailed explanation of why this is an absolute necessity before any speaker can perform to its true potential, read ‘Earthquakes on hi-fi’."

when im listening to music no energy from the speakers vibrates threw the floor, using podiums your speakers are completely isolated measured down to 4hz so i would confidently say acoustic breakthrough has been achieved down to a measured 4hz regards john

Just to be clear, I was quoting and responding to what someone else said in the reference to the Townshend video. Actually we are agreeing about the mechanical feedback issue. That is the most important thing when isolating speakers. Especially subwoofers. But the frequencies below 30 Hz  - the so called seismic frequencies - are still running around. That's why you also need to isolate everything else. That's why Townshend called his first ISO stand SEISMIC SINK -  because it dealt with seismic vibrations.

if anyone wants to buy townshend audio seismic isolation products please contact Emporium hifi website or by phone on 01508518542 they are from the uk and the townshend audio prices are by far the cheapest anywhere , you can order any new product you require at discounted prices and shipping to anywhere in the usa or europe is not a problem 

hi geoff thanks for the update the seismic sink back then was a little out of my league price wise, i have only started shouting about the townshend seismic podiums because of what they did in my system and other uk audiphiles systems i have heard, theres talk in the uk that PMC loudspeakers will be building the platforms into there loudspeakers also rumours regarding B&W being very impressed when hearing the podiums being demonstrated , i think its great when a product really makes an enormous difference in sound quality everytime it is demonstrated i have heard nothing negative except maybe prices but when you hear the difference in your own system it seems quite a bargain also i have mentioned the best place to buy townshend audio products from so the price becomes much more affordable Emporium hifi have been around 25 years and still going very strong regards john