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Enough SET Power for Rock and Roll

I'm still trying to figure out what SET amp would sound best for Rock and Roll (and other music but especially Rock) on Klipsch Cornwall II speakers (101dB efficiency) in a room about 18x13 (with kind of medium acoustics - not live, not totally dead.) On a Marantz 2230 (which sounds very good, surprisingly good for being ~35 years old and 30 watts of solid state) I found that when I crank up the Rock and Roll on the Cornwalls I'm listening from about 89dB to 97db, but frankly if I wasn't worried about clipping or blowing out the speakers or receiver I could probably enjoy an occassional 100 dB :) - but if I have to live at 97 dB and below I could. (Measurements made with a Radio Shack meter set on fast, C weighting - taken from 1 meter away from the speakers, and also at the main seating position which is about 10-11 feet from the speaker plane.)

From many posts here and over on AudioAsylum it sounds like a 45 SET amp would sound great but might not have enough oomph - although that isn't 100% certain. It seems that a 2A3 SET amp would have a better chance of handling the loud music and the "complexities?" of Rock (and orchestra music) vs. say simple instrumentals and vocals. Next up would be a 300B SET, more power but some people seem to think it gives away some of the "magic" of the 2A3 and especially the 45. It isn't so clear to me from reading the various posts how any of these tube types do on the low end; I think low end (reasonably deep and tight) is needed to do Rock and Roll well - but so is good midrange and highs, so it's a balance, of course.

What do you think, more power and listen loud with ease, ie go with a 300B, or can a 2A3 or possibly a 45 do it all? Or is it possible that SET just can't do Rock and Roll seriously with 101db speakers in a 18x13 rom? In which case, next up is what kind of tube amp? If SET makes sense, I'd like to give it a try but I don't want to push physics or the budget too hard with experiments that aren't likely to work.

Thanks!
hi_hifi

Showing 7 responses by jetrexpro

jetrexpro
506 posts
 
In my listening space with about 300b XLS 10watts and Audio Note E Speakers I love the pacing and emotional connection my system provides when listening to rock music. There is much about the way rock music is recorded in the studio with sound and instrumental layering that plays right into a SETs strengths. And the pacing of a great rhythm section is also why SETs are great for rock music. I kinda doubt 45 SET would give me the weight with my speakers when listening to rock. Maybe a direct coupled 2a3 SET would...who knows.

Now if you need gut punching bass at live concert levels you may need huge sub woofers and horns if that is your priority. You mention rock and roll, i am referring to rock music past and present. I don't listen to rock and roll from the 50's, not that it's not great music, it simply not a priority for me. I totally dig Elvis and his first band from the 50s. Have not heard it on my system, I probably should.
jetrexpro
506 posts
 
Mapman, I’ve heard speakers like volti Vitoria that are based on klipsch Lascala that are more immediate sounding than Audio Note. There are lots of speakers I’ve heard but that do many things better than AN, but as you say they do many things well and play lots of different music and do well with 8watts. It’s difficult to find speakers that are good at getting to the heart of many types of music.
jetrexpro
506 posts
 
Atmasphere, I have read your posts on this subject of loudness in a SET amp over the past few months and started to listen for those queues of loudness in my system. It may be because I am running at slightly over 10 watts ( 375v plate to heater, 85ma, 2700ohm primary on my audio note output transformers) but I rarely hear those loudness queues you are speaking of. Even on very dynamic orchestral music I hear power and it even seems that there is additional headroom to spare.

My sound is very different than that of a large horn system. I've heard a large horn system with sub woofers and it can play at concert levels without strain. Sounds like real instruments. That's the focus of this particular horn system. I've heard CH AMPS and YG speakers and this seemed to have more headroom than mine. But these systems also don't have the touch and texture and layering of my system. My system doesn't do instruments at concert levels, and if it did I would have the police knocking on my door here in Brooklyn ny. Honestly who can stand live concert hall level music in their living room anyway. I've listened to a string sextet in a large living room and the group put out a lot of sonic energy and many times it sounded loud...too loud. If that's the goal of your system your hearing will be gone very soon. That's not the goal of my system, my system does take me inside the music to the heart in a most addictive way. 

jetrexpro
506 posts
 
The volti vittora have that immediacy and warmth that I found captivating. They are huge and expensive and some say they need a subwoofer, but wow!. They may need more than 8 watts to come alive. I heard them with what I think was a push pull 300b amp.

jetrexpro
506 posts
 
Hi Charles, yes I agree with you about Atmasphere's many helpful posts. This particular subject helped me very much to listen for those ear hurting loudness queues. Would be very interesting to take a sound loudness meter to three for four different types of systems and see at what db started to hurt ones ears
jetrexpro
506 posts
 
I haven't been posting as much as I used to because I realized when I would render opinions I started to think they have very little real meaning since as Charles says and I agree, we all hear differently. We all have different systems, rooms, cables, musical preferences. It's no different in this thread. Rock music sounds a certain way in my room. I can describe it as good but if twenty people came for a listen only about 5 might like it.

jetrexpro
506 posts
 
The horn system I heard recently was really big with two Altec Lancing speakers for the lower mids per channel. It think the cut off point was 50hz and then 18 inch sub woofers took over. These subs were driven by 500w Crown amps. 50hz and above is handled by a 26w SET amp by Art Audio. The sound of this system playing rock music was a moving expirence. Pure dynamics and immediacy. This was a huge system that required a large room and nieghbors that are far far away. All of the horns in this system where made of wood with lots of tender love and care. The drivers for the horns are very expensive...the whole system is very expensive....but when one expiriences a system like this one is confronted by what is possible in reproduced sound and forces the listener to evaluate their own system.
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