Efficient full range floorstanders to match SET


Some more advice please, I am looking for a "last speaker", to match my "last amp" and yes I know everyone says this is my last purchase. This time I mean it, I think.. My problem, I have settled on 2 lowish power integrated amps, a Viva Solista 845 SET integrated that puts out 18 watts and a Lavardin integated at 50 watts, for warm weather duties. Neither are flea powered, but I can forget most of the offerings from mainstream speaker manufacturers, B and W etc. I recognise you also loose out on the deep base and full range dynamic sound of low efficiency speakers and powerfull SS power amps. I happen to like what you get from low power and efficient speakers. I have been using Living Voice Avatars for years and they are excellent, if a tad polite and laid back. I am looking for something more dynamic, perhaps with a wider, deeper soundstage.
My room is 20ft by 20ft, but certainly cluttered. I enjoy many types of music, Singer songwriters, Jazz, Classical and opera. The real challenge for my chosen path seems large scale classical and opera. We all know how magical SET's and 100db horns can be with the female voice or a jazz combo, but sorting out a complex symphonic piece, not so easy. So I need a compact floorstander, preferably that can be used near wall, that can produce a realistic opera chorus with 18 watts, a tall order? The 18 Watts mean I don't have to go for Avantagarde or Beauhorn at 103 dbs, 92 to 97 will do.
There is some information around, in fact an excellent series on SET amps on the 6moon site, but there are so many choices of matching speakers, often from small cottage industry manufacturers. I rather fancy horns, though my size requirements would mean compression horns or hybrids.
My thoughts included Zingali, the new High Efficiency line from Tyler, Reimer, Triangle, Devore, Cain and Cain, but there are so many others. Budget, up to $5000, preferably second hand, any thoughts? thanks
david12

Showing 2 responses by darkmoebius

Hi David12,

Do you have any acoustic room treatents?

Sorry to mention this if you already know, but a perfectly square room(20'x20') is about the worst acoustic environment possible under any circumstances.

As great as the sound you've gotten used to seems to be, I bet you will be apalled by the actual in-room response you are getting. I know I was, check out my System listed here for some quick graphical freq. test results.

The traits that you find lacking in the Living Voice could be due to extreme room colorations, modal ringing, and time-decay. Before investing ~$5,000 on new speakers which will be subject to same overriding forces, take a some time and spend a few dollars to do proper frequency, time-delay, etc. types of acoustic tests.

There is a simple method for doing frequency tests by hand with a cheap $30 Radio Shack SPL meter, it is reasonable accurate, yet time consuming. The much more accurate and simple method is to use $150 software like ETF 5, which provide far more information than simple frequency response. You get 1/3 octave frequecy repsonse, unsmoothed Freq resp., and most importantly 3-D graphs which show resonances, ringing, and decay time.

I wish I had used ETF right off the bat because it would have saved me literally months of frustration arranging, then rearranging, my room trying to get optimal sound. At one point, I was very, very, close to selling some of Cain & Cain's best speakers before a friend from Audio Asylum came over and pointed out my severe room colorations.

Now, I realize that no matter speakers I placed in the room, those problems would have still existed and dominated reporduction. Since then, I've discovered the beauty, simplicity, and power of room treatments - especially bass traps which actually help high frequecies too.

Just soem food for thought.
Since space is at a premium for you, I'd give Miklorsmith's suggest of Zu Druids serious consideration. They are the most compact floorstander (depthwise) I have ever seen - ~8" deep. And the company allows 60 day in-home trials with a full money-back guarantee.

I know from personal experience that the Druids do rock & roll extremely well at high volume without breaking up, perhaps they do equally with orchestral and choral. The only drawback, with all "single-driver's" including mine, are that I feel suwoofers are absolutely necessary to get proper tonal fullness. But, they do allow greater fredom of placement within a busy room.

Sadly, the only systems that I have ever heard to recreate full orchestra and choral with a true sense of scale and realism are 3-way or 4-way true compression horn speakers, properly configured. And these systems are BIG.

Mainly, I'm talking about the ability to go from the softest passages to the fullest in one swirling, dynamicly fantastic, sweep without loosing focus of the individual instruments/voices within the massed music.

Dr. Bruce Edgar's Edgarhorn shop is 10 mintes from my house - his stuff does scale. Of course, the Edgarhorns + Seismic sub are like putting 3 refrigerators in your living room. The Seismic is actually closer to a Sub-Zero double-door frig/freezer.

Eso on AA has a home-built 4-way system that does dynamic swings of full orchestra that are so real I got goosebumps. But, his bass horn alone is built into the room with a horn throat/length of 16-18 feet(?). I think he used hundreds and hundreds of pound of plaster or concrete to build it.

Cogents new field coil system does an amazing job of scale with unbelievable ease, but that's not even available yet and will cost ya' ~$20-30k when it's done.