I was wondering if a Dyn sub with the C1's would sound similar to the C4's as far as the bass is concerned? For me there is something special regarding the Dyn bass. I listen near field and as much as I love the C4's they are too large for my listening area. I've demoed the C2's in my home and they are the largest I can go but still there isn't quite enough bass. Currently I use a Rel B3 (I don't have a sub out) and although the bass is very good to me it sounds a little slow for the Dyn's.
That should work fine. Dynaudio make superb speakers. Their waterfalls are superbly clean and free of resonance - you will indeed need a good sub. The C1 midrange is not quite as perfect as the C4 but given you listen nearfield so I think the C1 will still sound much better. If you have a small room you will want the 300 otherwise get the 500 and your done....
Xtp16 If your Rel sub sounds slow its because of self induced stored energy. There are methods and devices that collect and disapate these resonaces. The stored mechanical energy will blend itself with any note to follow. These methods should be applied before you move away from the Rel to another sub. You may have never experienced the Rel in its full glory Any other sub or speaker would also benefit from the same applied method. Tom
Thanks for the response Shadone. My concern is that as great as the Rel is it doesn't seem to match up with the Dyn line. I was thinking if I change my intergrated with one that has a sub out would it be worth it to get the sub 500 to give me the kind of bass the C4's have. My room (living room dining room combo) is 27'X 16' and the setup is on the long wall about a 1/3 off center. I really don't have any other choice for set up (you would have to see my room to believe it - too hard to explain).
Yes I know it would work but I would just like to make sure the Dyn subs follow in the confidence line bass sound. It's several upgrades and a lot of $$$$'s.
My concern is that as great as the Rel is it doesn't seem to match up with the Dyn line.
Dynaudio make professional products. They make superb drivers. People probably think they cost way too much because one driver looks just like another. The reality is that good drivers with large voice coils and large magnets for low Qts are very expensive. In some cases, you do get what you pay for. I realize Dynaudio appears expensive from a superficial perspective - but sound wise you are talking top notch...
Dhaskins - I am using a Bryston B100 which does lack some power for the C2's but not that bad. As far as the sim I got my C1's from Tyler and he has a sim stack. BTW Tyler is the best dealer I have ever done any business with. Yeah great set up but too way out of my price range. In fact Tyler just picked up the Naim line which was a thought for replacing the Bryston (sx and suoernait have a sub out). I heard the bottom of the line Naim CD and intergrated with the Sapphire's and was shocked how good it sounded. I've requested a demo (Naim XS and Supernait with and without the flatcap P/S) with Tyler. Any day now. I may ask Mick T if he will loan Tyler a Dyn Sub 300 and 500 so I can hear the difference.
Hi Tom - I know what you are saying and 1 little trick that really helped the Rel was using only the front spikes (wasn't using any spikes before). I've relocated the sub and readjusted the settings - many many times - and like always I think I have it sounding the best. Again I'm looking for the C4 bass sound without spending the $$ and again the C4's wont deliver the sound they are capable of due to my room.
Drubin - Yes I do run the Rel off the amp (high level). The Dyn subs wont do high level. I did compare the Rel with JL audio but with sonus faber's creamora's and auditor's and thought the Rel was more musical. I like a musical system.
Shadone - I agree with what you said about Dynaudio's line up and is why I started this post. I am hoping to achieve a C4 sound using C1's in a near field listening situation. C1's and the Rel B3 sound very very good - but the C4 sound is better (I just can't have C4's).
George, I agree with Bob about the use of an external crossover. If you go this route make sure the crossover has a variable phase control. A zero or 180 phase switch just doesn't get it. I know by using and measuring the in room response with a pair of Paradigm X-30 crossovers, my system was best with this pair set at 70 degrees.
Also why did you use only two points and not four on your Rel? I use a Sistrum Sp101 under each of my subs. Makes for greater speed, resolution and yes better midrange even with the subs crossed at 45hz. Remember any cabinet itself radiates sound into the room. The less energy storage over time the better the sound. I am a dealer. Tom
Hi Tom I have been moving my speakers rack and sub trying to get the best sound. When I tried all 4 spikes it seemed to lose some 'meat' away from the bass. For the most part I didn't care for the sound. It was suggested by a Rel dealer to try just the fronts. I was surprised at the difference. Much better than no spikes and better than all 4. Now I will admit and you have me thinking I have since moved the sub when I tried all 4. I'll have to try it again. BTW what is a Sistrum SP 101? I also agree with only 0 or 180 phase inversion. Just means you need to move the sub to try to compensate for the difference. Also do you have any thoughts regarding after market Rel cables? I've read where some folks say the bass gets tighter and faster with some of the aftermarket cables. I still have not heard a Dyn sub mated with the C1's or 2's. It may not sound better than the Rel. Thanks again George
The Dyn C1s are great speakers, but even with a sub, they won't sound like C4s.
Adding a sub to the C1 will give you more extension, but the differences between the C1 and the C4 are far greater than extension alone.
As good as the C1s are, and they are some of the better monitors out there, they will never match the C4 in terms of sheer dynamic impact, staging size, bass articulation, etc. The C4's have much, much more cabinet volume, and more drivers dedicated to the mids / highs that the C1s can't match.
I first placed the Sp101 platforms so that one leg fell with in the footprint of the stands that hold my mains. This way I could place each sub as close to its partner as possible. I then aligned the sub on its platform so its voice coil was as close as I could measure to that of the mains. I played a test tone that was about the same frequency as the crossover point. Having an RTA allowed me to measure the frequency response of the mains and the subs. Adjusting the phase control from zero to 180 degrees while viewing the RTA screen I found that the subs measured and also sounded best with a 70 degree phase angle. My mains have a first order crossover at 2400hz and are run full range. Tom
Goatwuss is dead-on. The C1's with a Sub500 will not better the C4's overall for all the reasons stated.
However, I've owned the C1's with dual Sub500's and I loved the combination together. The Dynaudio subs don't get the praise that they deserve, they are wonderful and mate extremely well with the C1's.