Do yourself a favor and track down a copy of the original issue on eBay. Compare this to your Classic reissue before you buy any more Classic RCA reissues. In particular listen for string tone and tonal colors.
I just compared my 180g Classic to my original pressing. That will be the last time I listen to the Classic. The Classic had quieter surfaces and was more dynamic, but the tonal colors were not nearly as rich and natural.
Many of the Living Stereo titles are available in the RCA VICS series. These are reasonably priced and sound quite good. Snag as many of these as you can. |
I initially thought highly of many Classic reissues. Now they just sit on my shelf taking up space. As my system's ability to reproduce tone colors has improved, these sound worse and worse, which is odd, because most of my other records I appreciate more and more. A large reason for this is due to the way that the Classics destroy string tone. A good example is the reissue of LSC-1934. There is no acoustic instrument on this planet that can make as dreadful a sound as the massed strings on this. That reissue is an abomination.
Before you spent much more on more Classics, I thought you should hear how the Classics compare to originals so you can hear what's missing.
I even prefer the CD layer on the hybrid SACDs to the Classics RCAs. These are a great way to hear these wonderful recordings. |
I just compared the CD layer of the hybrid SACD of LSC-1934 to the 180g Classic. The Classic sounds decent until the treble gets pushed. The massed strings that appear about 3 minutes in are absolute ear bleeders. And so are the trumpets that blare a bit later.
I hear a better sense of the hall with the CD rip. The stage doesn't have as much depth on the LP. There's more air around the drum in the 2nd movement with the CD rip.
The Classic sounds fuller and makes the CD sound thin. I can see some folks preferring the Classic because of this. But, the sound of those massed strings and those trumpets are an absolute deal kiler for me.
Chashas1 makes a good point about my room and my gear. I have changed every component except my speakers since buying that Classic. I've changed rooms too. The strings on the Classic sounds as dreadful to me now as they did when I first played that LP. |
Tzh21y - to which reissue are you referring when you say you hear no hardness? I may have confused things by referencing LSC-1934 in your post about the Dvorak.
In terms of my tracking force, I don't recall the number exactly, but it's within the range specified by Lyra. But my setup isn't the problem. The original LSC-1934, which I'm now playing, sounds delightful, with no hardness problem. And the horns show no sign of hardness either with the original (and they sound spectacular!)
I should also point out that that the hardness was also evident with other cartridges I've owned (Clearaudio Sigma, Clearaudio Victory, Lyra Helikon).
In an earlier post I mentioned that I was originally impressed with the Classics, but their flaws became more apparent as my system improved. Also, the originals showed me how far the Classics strayed. Once you hear how the strings are supposed to sound on these - especially on a system that does a great job of reproducing tone colors, it's really tough to tolerate the Classics. |
I agree with you on Mercury Living Presence. If you want to hear what really good reissues sound like, check out the Speakers Corner Mercurys. These are absolutely stunning. |
The Speakers Corner Mercurys are among my best sounding classical LPs. |
Chashas1 asked about LSC 2374. I just compared the 180g Classic to the CD layer on the hybrid SACD. To my ears, the Classic is horrendous. The CD isn't perfect, but its sins are sins of omission. The CD should have a fuller sound, and richer colors, but nothing it does is too offensive, and violins are easily recognized as of violins, and cellos as cellos. The same can't be said of the Classic. The Classic just doesn't do as convincing of a job giving the impression that a bow is being drawn across strings. The tone and texture of this just sounds off to me - and at times the sound is just too hard or too shrill. I think this is where I get tripped up with the Classics. So while the Classic is better than the CD in some areas, since it can't get the string sound right I am turned off.
It sounds to me like this Classic was cut with a solid state driven cutting head, and that the EQ is off. I believe the former was confirmed by Classic. I don't know if they went back and recut these once they brought in a tube cutting head.
This sure is a wonderful performance. I need to track down an original. |
Tzh21y - It's difficult to comment on what impact your tube amp might be having without knowing the rest of your gear. You should add your system.
Having said that, I would look to the cartridge and phono stage before I'd look to the amp. A tube amp would probably be the last thing I'd suspect.
Also, it could be that the problems aren't present on your 200g pressing. My Classic LSC pressings are all 180g, and are supposedly from a different vinyl formulation. I'm sure there are differences. |
My favorite Mercury reissues from Speakers Corner are two that Sbrown listed: SR90253 and SR90153. The Rachmaninoff PC 3 is a stunning performance.
Other favorites include the Stravinsky box (the Petruchka is stunning), the Staker box, and SR90246 (Copland Apalachian Spring). |
Great system Tzh21y!! I owned the Glider many years ago and presently use the Xono.
The Delos will be HUGE upgrade from the Glider, I think. Among the biggest upgrades I've done is swapping a Clearaudio Sigma for the Glider. I felt this change pushed my system into the high end for the first time. Compared to the Sigma, the Glider was mechanical sounding. Once that mechanical coloration was stripped away, music took a huge leap in realism. The Glider just wasn't at all in the same league in terms of reproducing natural timbre. Instruments sounded much more real with the Sigma.
I later moved to a Lyra Helikon. This was another nice step forward, but not as large as moving from the Glider to the Sigma. I mention the Helikon because the Delos is said to be superior to the Helikon. I think you will be blown away by the Delos. And with the Delos, you will have no problem recognizging what's missing in the Classic reissues. |
What do you mean by "heavy sounding"? Can you elaborate?
I'm in agreement with Chashas1 - this is a delightful recording. And I am also wondering if maybe something is wrong with your setup (and maybe your friend's too).
The other thing it could be is personal preference. Each of us favor different things. That's why I asked you to elaborate on "heavy".
I've already expressed how highly I regard the Speakers Corners Mercury reissues. They get tone right in my opinion, while the Classics don't even come close. I just threw on The Birds. My gosh is this wonderful. I guess I could see how the opening section might be said to be "heavy". I'd call it "full" though, and I'd mean that in a positive way.
Try not to allow your past experience with other Speakers Corner reissues to bias you. I didn't care much for their Deccas. But their Mercs are a different beast. The Mercury sound comes through fully with these. And these are among the finest recordings ever made. |
If the change to VTA has made the Speakers Corner reissue sound good - and at the same time made the Classic RCAs sound bad, I'd say that you are now hearing things correctly.
(I'm somewhat joking)
There is no evidence here that the Speakers Corner LPs have any special VTA requirements. And the reissue of The Birds has lots of air.
How old is your Glider? Is it the original version? What arm is it mounted in? And what turntable? |
Tzh21y - what do you have the load set to in your Xono?
If you don't hear air on that SC Merc - and you don't find the Classic Bartok to be bright - it could be that you have too much load on your cartridge. |
I don't think it's *always* the case that originals are "much better more air". The SC Mercs have been well reviewed and some have been found to be superior to the originals. Likewise see the reviews of the recent Blue Note reissues from AP and Music Matters.
But generally, I agree that originals tend to sound better. |
Congrats on the lucky find! |
