Duelund DCA16GA


Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone have try this cable? I have never try the original WE cable but I want to buy this cable for my speaker. Other candidate is supra cable.

Can someone give some feedback?

Thanks
santodx5

Showing 24 responses by mitch2

Here is the wire I would like to try as interconnect cable;

http://www.partsconnexion.com/product31386.html

20 awg, Tin-Plated Stranded Copper & Cotton / Oil (DCA20GA), hook-up wire, Per Meter

INTRODUCTORY SPECIAL: $6.75 USD/Meter (3.28 ft.) Regular pcX Price: $7.59

Arriving End of January - Book Orders Now !

I will make a set and compare to my current ICs, which are multiple strands (4 per side) of high purity, solid-core, small-gauge (28awg) copper in cotton, and which are the best-sounding ICs I have owned out of many.  

Also awaiting the anticipated Duelund 12 awg tinned copper in cotton, which I will twist as a quad and cross-connect with two runs per side for speaker cables.

Don't buy into some of the the urban myths, such as the only way the Duelund 16 awg wire sounds good is as single runs.  Maybe on low-powered SET but more wire works better on both of my high-powered amplifiers.  Have had great success using two runs per side of cross-connected, 16 and 14 awg WE wire, which provides between 13 and 11 awg per pole.  Currently using two twisted pairs of WE 10 awg to bi-wire each speaker and it sounds very good.   I also made two sets of the Belden 8402 IC cables many have raved over, and I thought they sounded pretty bad compared to the ICs described above.  There is not just one way to do something and the same thing is not always going to sound the same in different systems and to folks with different listening preferences.  When "reviewers" start telling folks there is only one way to do something, I become immediately skeptical.

geoch, the Belden 1800F does indeed look like a good cable. The "Foam High Density Polyethylene" is one of my preferred dielectrics and IMO better sounding than Teflon, which I sometimes hear as a shrill artifact. Also the thicker foamed material provides increased and consistent separation between the conductors, which is a good thing for interconnects. I am not surprised this cable is a consistently strong performer.
BTW, my comment on increasing runs of the WE wire was for speaker cables only. The quad, cross-connected geometry reduces inductance.  My multi-run ICs are a different animal since those wires are machine-braided. Since my system is all balanced, I do not use RCA connectors anywhere and my preference is for the Furutech 601/602(G) connectors.
cjwebber, thanks for sharing.  I did not like the Belden IC's (dull, dark and uninspiring in my system) and I suspected the 20ga Duelund would be the best of that bunch for interconnects.  I am not surprised that shielded cables worked best because it is my experience is that shielding is typically better for noise reduction purposes. I am glad it is working out for you.   I have a lot of WE16, 14 and 10ga wire here but will be trying the 12ga Duelund wire for speaker cables using two star-quad runs per speaker in a bi-wired configuration and comparing that to two twisted pairs of WE10ga wire per speaker.  I am hoping the Duelund will be better than a push since I am spending the money for the Duelund wire.
No waiting, it is available now.
http://www.partsconnexion.com/Duelund-DCA12GA-20awg-Tin-Plated-Stranded-CU-Wire_moreinfo.html
I just cancelled my order this week and will stick with double runs of the WE10ga.
Also have a star-quad run of WE16ga for the HF and WE14ga for the LF, so 13/11 awg aggregate to each speaker.  Those sound pretty darn good too.  Dug up some old literature on the WE wire earlier in the week and doubt it is anything special, just good quality tin-plated, stranded copper wire, with a thin'ish pvc coating under cotton.  I think the attraction must be attributable to the dead soft annealing, absence of too much dielectric, and maybe the stranding and pvc adding a full, dense sound, particularly in the midrange.  I find that after burning them in on my Cable Cooker and having the wire in my system for months, it does pretty much everything I need.  I liked that the bass is solid but not overblown and that I can hear real-sounding high frequencies without heat or tizz, and of course the midrange is the best part.  Even without the Duelund wire for comparison, I have compared it with high quality OCC stranded wire, high quality OCC individually insulated multi-strand solid core wire, and solid core, individually insulated, multi-strand silver wire here but still like the WE wire best for SCs.  It makes great PCs too.
I guess I have reached a point where going after the next best thing usually ends up being different, but not particularly better.  New speaker project is almost to fruition and then gotta be done.
I too like the WE10ga as speaker cable and use double runs to bi-wire my speakers.
I cancelled an order of the Duelund wire in the 12 awg size a month or so ago because I am perfectly happy with the WE10ga and simply had to tap out at some point.  I am certainly curious based on some of the testimonials but I take those with a grain of salt since my equipment is significantly different from what some of those reviewers use, so what works for them may not work best for me and vise versa.

I have terminated many of the WE wires (same tinned copper type wire) and prefer soldered connections for the tinned wire because the tinned coating melts resulting in a more direct contact with the underlying copper.
Although some prefer no connectors, I am skeptical that the absence of connectors can be easily heard given that the speaker cables typically connect to two binding posts and the signal travels through a bunch of other solder joints in typical amplifiers and speaker cross-overs.  I prefer connectors for convenience.
I like the Cardas GRS copper spades but couldn't find them in a search of vendors this morning.  Another good option is to use the Cardas copper jumpers and cut off the link section resulting in two spades that you can solder directly to.  Use some thick, adhesive-lined heat shrink for a stiff and well-protected connection/termination.
I bought a bunch more of the WE10ga before I left to ride my bike across Iowa.
I biwire my speakers with a pair of 10 awg wires on top and a second pair on the bottom and I have considered trying star quad runs for 7 awg to top and bottom, but haven't gotten around to it yet.
As speaker cables, I think they sound great with a perfectly natural distribution of frequencies, if maybe a little mid-oriented.  Bass is full, textured, and has impact when it is on the recording.  Highs are smooth and natural IMO, but may not have enough emphasis for some.
I am running huge current into power hungry speakers so ymmv.  I use spades soldered to my cables but would not argue with those who recommend no connectors.  I like soldering the tinned wire for a more direct connection with the copper below the tin coating.
This wire is also perfect for power cables.  I use a star quad configuration for 7 awg to my two 300wpc Class A monoblocks.  A single twisted pair is just fine for front-end components and preamps.  This is the same wire TWL and Mojo Audio used in their highly regarded power cords of a few years ago.
Hi Grannyring,
I have read you are making ICs from the Duelund 16ga stranded tinned wire and I am curious whether you have tried making any from their 20ga stranded tinned wire?  If so, what did you hear differently between the two and which do you like better?  I am about ready to make a pair but mine will be balanced using a twisted pair, spaced away shield and a ground of the same wire that is counter-spiraled outside of the shield.  Thanks for any information and/or listening impressions.  Also, I am curious what you are driving with your single run of WE10ga SCs - are you still using your Acoustic Zen Crescendo loudspeakers?
I just made two sets of 3.5M long balanced interconnects using the same construction method of a twisted pair of conductors encased in a noise-reduction braided tube as a spacer, then a tinned-copper braid shield connected at only the source end and then a counter-spiraled ground wire outside the shield and connected at both ends, with the whole thing covered in clean-cut TechFlex.  Both sets were made with Furutech FP-601/602(G) connectors.

The difference between the two sets of ICs was the wire used.  One of the sets was made from Duelund 20 awg tinned copper wire with a 18 awg ground wire and the other set was made from WE 16 awg tinned copper wire with a 14 awg ground wire.  

The difference between the two cables is interesting.  I like them both and would choose either in comparison to a pair of the same length of high quality Furutech u-P2.1 PCOCC 19 awg interconnects I own.  The Duelund 20 awg cables have nice tone and good dynamics.  The larger 16 awg WE wire cables have an even fuller tone and a bold, powerful sound.  The Duelund ICs do a bit more/better with the upper frequencies but I like what the larger WE wire does for bass and midrange.  The WE cables are not as burned in as the Duelunds, which spent 4 days on the Cable Cooker and then a day in my system.  I will burn both sets in more and report back.  I am very close to having my entire system wired with the WE (or Duelund) wire, including ICs, SCs, and PCs (but not my USB cables).
Has anyone tried the WE 16/14/12/10 GA or the Duelund wire for power cables?  How does it sound?
I have made several of these and they sound great.  On my big monoblock amplifiers I use a cross-connected quad run of the WE 10ga to the pos and neg poles (2, 10ga wires to each pole) and another two of the same wires to ground.  On my preamp I use a simpler twisted pair of the 10ga (one wire each to pos and neg) with the same to ground.  I have been using Furutech FI-11 (Cu) connectors with this wire.  They compare very favorably with other manufactured power cords I own. In my system, the sound is full and tonally dense, similar to their wire used as speaker cables. 
Regarding the design, I shield all of my cords, with the shield spaced away from the pos-neg wires and with the ground wire(s) counter-spiraled outside of the shield.  One could argue the quad run is overkill, even for large Class A monoblocks.
Regarding who makes them, I believe this is the same wire used in the original "American Series" by TWL, for both power cables and speaker cables.  I believe this wire was also used in power cords previously made by Mojo Audio.
Regarding the Duelund wire, I would not use their cotton-clad-only wire for power applications.  The WE wire has a plastic dielectric (and then an outside cotton covering) and others have found that suitable for power cords, but you should do your own research on the suitability of any wire you use in power applications.
Just finished a mini shoot-out comparing 3.5M long balanced (XLR) ICs made from Duelund 20 ga wire with ICs of the same length and construction method but made with WE 16 ga wire.  The ICs connect my Metrum Pavane Level 3 DAC with my SMc preamp.

The construction consists of twisted pair conductors covered with a low-noise spacer layer then a tinned copper braid-shield connected at the source end only and a counter-spiraled ground wire of a larger gauge than the signal wires and connected at both ends.   Clean-cut TechFlex covers the whole assembly.  Connectors are the Furutech FP-601/602 (G).

A third, control IC that I am very familiar with consisted of Furutech's highly rated U-p2.1 balanced interconnect that uses 19 awg stranded Alpha-PCOCC conductors in special foamed PE insulation.   

In end, the DIY ICs made from the Duelund 20 ga wire were preferred.  It was sort of a Goldilocks type of thing where the WE 16 ga wire was just a little too rich-sounding and midrange-centric, while the Furutech wire was nicely extended but didn't quite have the warmth and glowing tonal presentation of the two DIY ICs that both use tinned copper wire.  The 20 ga Duelund wire was "just right" with a very nice blend of richness, warmth, detail, and extension, as well as that great tonal quality that folks like about the tinned copper Duelund and WE wire. 

All three sets of ICs had been conditioned for days on my Audiodharma Cable Cooker and all three sets sounded very nice - I could live with any of them.  Unfortunately, my shoot-out still does not answer questions regarding Duelund vs. WE wire since the both of those had similar characteristics and I cannot say for sure whether the differences I heard were due to the differences in the wire and dielectric materials between Duelund and WE, or simply due to the difference between the gauge of the two wires (i.e., 20 awg Duelund wire vs. 16 awg WE wire).

Hi joey54,
I have been doing this for awhile so have read a lot of information and constructed a variety of cables, some that sound pretty good and others not so much. For information, you can search both this site and over at Audio Asylum in the Cable Asylum, particularly articles by Jon Risch (you can search by author over there). Goals for speaker and power cables are mostly low inductance and low resistance. Goals for ICs include low capacitance and EMI/RFI rejection while low resistance is not as important for ICs.

A posting by Jon Risch at AA gives this basic information for twisted pair XLR ICs;

For XLR to XLR, twisted pairs should be constructed like this:
pin 2 to pin 2, pin 3 to pin 3 for the twisted pair wires, THEN, the shield to pin 1 of the source component. This SHOULD work for true balanced gear, but some is not true balanced, and a ground reference connection must be made, in this case, wrap a 16 gauge tinned stranded hookup wire around the OUTSIDE of the shield braid, and connect to pin 1 at both ends. This will help keep any ground currents from interfering with the two differential pairs, and minimize cable capacitance.

BTW, as for all DIY twisted pairs, I recommend spacing the shield briad AWAY from the twisted pairs using a high quality insulation, and then oversized braid for a shield covering.

Better XLRs do help, but the industry standard Neutrik and Switchcraft are pretty decent, it is the other cheapo brands of XLR’s that you have to watch out for adversely afecting the sound.

So, the design I used consisted of a twisted pair, to reduce EMI/RFI, spacing material to keep the shield away from the conductors, a braid shield connected at the source end only to further reject EMI/RFI, a ground wire outside of the shield that is of a larger gauge than the signal wires, tech flex, heat shrink, and high quality connectors.

If you dig deeper into design options, you might find some believe there are benefits to spacing the signal cables away from each other a certain distance. Risch from AA did this by using cores of coaxial cables that are surrounded by foamed dielectric material, others do this by a variety of methods, including laying the wires flat with a consistent spacing between packing tape or sewed into material. Most manufactured ICs (if not coax) are a simple twisted pair, or multiple wires twisted around a core, because those designs are easier to mass-manufacture. Wires twisted around a core is the basis for DIY ICs you can read about at the VH Audio website. Consistency in spacing is important. Good luck whatever you choose to do.

Recently I put my Belden 8402 ICs back in my system from the preamp to the amplifiers (still using Duelund 20ga between DAC and preamp).
I was surprised that I did not seem to hear any of the drawbacks I previously heard with that wire. It retained the full, tonally rich sound that is consistent with all of the tinned, stranded wires I have tried, and it seemed to be suitably extended and did not lose control when played (plenty) loud.
I looked at the construction and believe there is really only one main potential flaw to the 8402 being the use of EPDM rubber insulation. The only reason I can think to use that material is for flexibility as a commercial microphone cable but maybe you guys have a better idea of their reason for that design choice.
I then looked at Belden's extensive catalog and ordered some 8422, which is mostly the same cable as 8402 but for two main differences, the conductors are 22 awg instead of the 20 awg in the 8402, and the insulation in the 8422 is polyethylene instead of rubber in the 8402. The strand size is the same and both are tinned. I will take the chance that there will be no detriment to the slightly smaller conductors for the hopefully positive trade-off going from rubber to polyethylene. The 22 awg may actually be a bit better extended without losing body and tonal density. The polyethylene should be a superior insulation with a much lower dielectric constant. I actually like polyethylene (preferably foamed) better than Teflon, which I find to impart a high frequency sheen that is a bit unnatural sounding to me. I have always believed there are advantages to using manufactured wire for interconnects because of the more consistent winding and spacing. Hopefully, I will receive the wire and be able to make a set or two this weekend.
Just received enough Duelund 12ga to make a pair of speaker cables with 8 single runs to each speaker, or a cross-connected quad to each of the two bi-wire binding post pairs on each speaker - 6 awg per +/- pole per speaker, or 9 awg to each mf/hf post and 9 awg to each lf post - can't wait to hear them
Just finished making a pair of  bi-wire speaker cables from the Duelund 12ga wire.  I have a cross-connected star quad going to the LF and HF of each speaker (8 wires per speaker or 6 awg per pole).  Getting the four 12ga wires attached to a single connector was a bear.  I tried soldering them but quickly learned that a solder pot would be necessary because the four 12 awg wires twisted together were too thick to solder using an iron or gun.
Fortunately, I had a couple of pairs of Furez SP8 SB60NP Bare Copper Spade Speaker Connectors that take up to 4 awg sized wire (the four 12ga wires were equivalent to 6 awg) and attach using two set screws.  I used Furutech's FP-201 G High Performance Spades at the speaker ends, which also connect using two set screws.  They have been  burning in on the Cable Cooker for a day so I will report back as to how they sound next week.
In the meantime, I am getting some very good sounds using another of my DIY speaker cables made from braided high quality copper wire in cotton sleeving.
@grannyring and others, have any of you used the  KLEI Harmony Banana plugs for your speaker cables (Duelund or WE)?
I have exclusively used spades in the past but these interest me.  Would be interested in opinions about how they sound and what is the largest gauge wire they will support using.
Thanks Bill, that sounds promising.
I see on their website the bananas can be used with wire as thick as 6 awg.
I burn in cables on my Audiodharma Cable Cooker so hopefully any brightness would be short-lived.
You guys got me playing with speaker cables again this morning.  I had been using my Furutech FP-Alpha cables, which are great but the tinned copper WE and Duelund wire does bring something different to the table.  I have been comparing 1M long runs (from my monoblocks) of the WE10ga wire vs. the Duelund 12ga wire.  Both cables are bi-wired with four connections at the speaker end and two connections (one pos and one neg) at the amp end.  However, the configurations are a bit different with the WE 10ga cables run as two twisted pairs (i.e., 4 wires to each speaker) while the Duelund 12ga cables are two twisted quads that are cross-connected in a star-quad configuration, so 8 wires to each speaker.  The aggregate wire area is close with each terminal seeing 10awg from the WE wire and each terminal seeing 9awg from the Duelund wire.

Both of the tinned copper wire cables are a bit fuller sounding than the Furutech, which is OCC wire at 13 awg, also run bi-wired so 13 awg to each terminal.  I am hard-pressed to describe much difference between the WE and Duelund cables as they both share similar characteristics.  The WE cables may be a bit more midrange-concentric and maybe just a touch more tidy with respect to soundstage but also maybe a bit more resolute in the bass.  The Duelund cables, in the configuration described, is fuller sounding but also extends maybe just a bit more at the top end than the WE cables.  The Duelund has a bit more bloom (on the edge of too much), which also makes the bass a bit "plumper."  I should make a set of the Duelund cables as twisted pairs without doubling up in a quad run to see if they would sound more like the WE wires.  (Bill, maybe we could do a temporary swap of a pair of cables to try them out, with you loaning me a bi-wire set of the Duelund cables you are making and I sending you my quad set of Duelunds to try - interested?)

Regarding connectors, I use Furutech spades at the speaker end but had originally used Furez spades at the amp end to accommodate the larg'ish quad of 12 awg Duelund wire but I was able to change them out for Furutech spades, which I like a little better.

I am still interested in bananas but in addition to the KLEI bananas, I am looking at Furutech's  FP-200B(G) Bananas, which are made from phosphor bronze but have a simple set screw connection, like their FP-201 spades.
I plan to make one last pair of speaker cables using Duelund 12ga wire twisted as bi-wire pairs (i.e., one 12 awg wire to each speaker terminal) and KLEI bananas all around.  I look forward to hearing the result.
I ordered the additional 12 awg Duelund wire for a pair of bi-wire speaker cables yesterday.  I was planning to use the KLEI bananas for terminations but checked my supply and found I already have plenty of new spades so will use those instead of buying additional banana connectors.

@grannyring do you have any suggestions for use with the 12 awg Duelund wire, between the following spade connectors?  Based on the picture of your BBQ speaker cables, it appears you are using something similar to the Vampire spades or maybe the Audioquest 1056G lug spades.  Below is what I have in stock.
- Cardas 1/4" spade, bare copper (GRS C)
- Vampire  1/4" SPD Spade Lug 10/12awg copper with direct gold plating
- Furutech  FP-203(G) 5/16" 24K Gold-Plated Alpha pure copper
@jaybe PartsConnexion is certainly going strong.  They are offering a price reduction on the Duelund wire currently...at least they were yesterday when I bought some.  They also have a quite favorable price on the KLEI banana connectors, if you were thinking about using those.

@grannyring I agree with you about how good the Furutech spades sound and on almost all my terminations I have used either the FP-203 (crimp or solder connection) that I have available for this project or the FP-201 (bigger and with set screws).  Both of these spades are pure Alpha copper with gold (my choice) or rhodium plating.  I have previously used my hydraulic crimp tool with the FP-203 spades but this time I think I will lightly crimp with a hand tool and then solder.  The solder should mix with the tin plating and create a more homogeneous connection.
@grannyring 
I have found the Rhodium plating a tad bit too detailed on some other builds vs gold. Very subjective thing and I am sure not a universal rule? What have you found?
I agree with you and might add the word "splashy" sometimes, maybe a bit of glare with the wrong equipment.  I also like gold because it matches up with most typical binding posts, and with typical connectors that manufacturers use on their equipment.  I don't see an advantage to dissimilar materials as connectors.  I gave up on rhodium a long time ago.  I believe Cardas likes rhodium because it is harder and presumably wears better.
@ketchup    
If you remove the tin, the signal will travel from the copper in the wire to solder to the RCA connector instead of from the copper of the conductor, through the tin, through solder, and finally to the RCA connector. 
  Solder is mostly tin.  Just solder your joints and don't worry about it.