Duelund DCA16GA


Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone have try this cable? I have never try the original WE cable but I want to buy this cable for my speaker. Other candidate is supra cable.

Can someone give some feedback?

Thanks
santodx5
The Dueland DCA16ga tops the WE16ga. Read what Jack Roberts (the Beatnik) of Dagogo has to say, basically, he like likes them better than the Hi Fidelity top of the line cables at $11,000 to $16,000. Or you can read about them at Jeff Day's Blog, jeffsplace.me to read a number of comments by Jeff, as well as his readers.

I have several pairs playing now between the main rig, DeVore 0/96, Coincident Dynamo 34SE Mark II as well as Harbeth Super HL5 and Leben CS600, as well as rotating in Tekton Lore or Mini-Lore. Best speaker cables I have heard in my systems. Best, Rob

I know about Jeff's blog.

Do you have link for Jack review?

Thanks
The Beatnik says: "Well yestday afternoon I broke down and put the High Fidelity UR speaker wires back in the system. I was surprised how similar they sound, but I definitely prefer the Duelund. The High Fidelity UR has a quieter background, there is a little more separation between instruments and voices, there was slightly more detail and the bottom end was tighter and deeper. In the upper bass through the upper midrange the Duelund was simply more alive, you can hear more energy, more overtones from both instruments and voices, drums sound more like real drums. The soundstage may not be quite as wide but it is more three dimensional and much more believable. When it comes to which one makes you want to listen longer there is no contest, the Duelund is simply more emotional involving and sounds more like you are there.

By the way 3 meters of the UR cost $16,500 and 3 meters of Duelund cost $120. That means the Duelund is 1,350 times less expensive. Amazing

I’m expecting the Belden interconnects today.

l'll attempt to find the link. Best, Rob

santodx5,
Here is the Link: boppingwiththebeatnik.wordpress.com 

Enjoy, best, Rob

Sorry, it's boppinwiththebeatnik.wordpress.com

Thanks.

I was hoping a real user will give feedback here.  The cable is now out of stock but rarely someone talk about it.
@mikirob 

Please do share what you think are Duelund's strengths and how they compare with other cables that you had in your system. 

I am also most interested in getting a pair of 8402 ICs and am wondering if they marry (with the WE or Duelund sc) as well as many have claimed. 

Thanks!
pc123v,
The Belden 8402 ICs are a great match for both WE16ga or Duelund DCA16ga. You can read about them about them at Jeff Day's Blog, jeffsplace.me or at boppinwiththebeatnik.com from Jack Roberts. I agree with their thoughts on the WE16ga and/or Duelund16ga. Both Jack and Jeff are professional reviewers. I am not; but I am considering writing a review here on Audiogon. Just have to find some time. Another source/voice you should listen to is what Yazaki-san the great Japanese designer of SPEC/mod maven of many, many, significant amps and speakers have to say about WE16ga and Belden 8402 among other audio topics. It is Yazaki-san who brought the WE16ga/Belden 8402 combo to Jeff Day's attention. You can read about this stuff at Positive Feedback online. I've been around this hobby for many years, both as a pro musician and the audio world for too many years and have listened to cheap cables to multi-thousands of dollar cables. yMMV, but the owner of Duelund has made a serious assault on the state-of-the-art in speaker cable design. So simple, so innovative, so inexpensive, that sound like "Real Music" as Yazaki-san likes to say. Best, Rob
Can someone other than Miki give some feedback?

The cable is sold out at the moment but only 1 people talk about it.

 
You might check out the thread on these in the Cables section on Audio Asylum.
One person or 100 people providing feedback it will still be subjective.  I believe mikirob has been responsive and insightful.  He's given follow up links as well. I strongly suspect that this is a very good cable. Good luck.
Charles, 
Salectric posted an interesting perspective on the Duelund and WE16a wire on the Audio asylum cable forum. He put into words how I came to altimately feel about the sound of the WE16 speaker wire and Belden ICs. They are definitely worth a try since they are inexpensive. As mtbrider mentioned there are a few threads on the AA cable forum.

Ok I will check thanks
@mikirob 

Thanks for your help and feedback. 
pc123v,
my pleasure. Hope all goes well for you. Best, Rob
Salectric has his own experience to go on which is opposite my experience, Yazaki-san, Jeff Day, Jim Simth of "Bettter Sound" now Jack Roberts (the Beatnik) amongst others. As we always say, YMMV. I've used Wire World Eclipse and in my system it does not do for my system what it does do in Salectric's system. I think Jack Roberts put it succinctly, $16,000 High Fidelity speaker wire or low hundreds for DCA Duelund, which Jack thinks is better sounding. Only one way to find out, try and compare. You make the decision.

I've made my decision. I appreciate what Duelund has done; Big Bang for the buck speaker cable that will compete with anything out there and might just be better in your rig. Certain worth the try-out at its low cost. Best, Rob
Currently using the Dueland in 2 applications:
1.) As speaker cable and internally re-wired my back loaded Frugelhorn XL's, and as interconnects (2pairs w/switchcraft RCA connectors) alternating between a Fisher 500-B and a Dynaco ST-70/PAS-3
2.) As speaker cable between my Devore Fidelity Gibbon 8's and Mcintosh MC-30's

The cable is astonishingly good for the price! It smells a little funny when you pull it out of the package from the oil but dissipates quickly. I also own and used the famed Western Electric cable this cable is based on and I can say with certainty that I prefer the Dueland. Jeff's Place is a great resource in regards to this cable and choice vintage gear. Hope this helps some.
-Mario 
Great to hear Rob and Mario!

I compared the WE16ga to my Duelund 2.0 and preferred the 2.0 overall and in my case but the WE16ga has it's strengths and for the money... I have a second system with a bit of a dead midrange which the WE16ga or now the Duelund will be just what is needed. 

Excellent midrange but it is is telephone cable! :)

I have used and have the original copper Duelund which was not as good as the Silver.
The Duelund DCA16GA replaced my HiDiamond HD8 as speaker cable between my Air Tight ATM3 and my Analysis Audio Epsilon speakers.
The difference ? More real music. 

Jeff stuck back his HF cables and wrote that he was wrong about the D cable being better than the HF. Clearly the HF was better and had an ear fart!
Everyone wants the best but, there must be a limit about the asking price. I don’t mean to accuse any brand’s product about it’s asking price, but ---------------------I can easily accuse me for the expense.
When one locates a product which excels in value/money, its time for us to think if IT IS GOOD ENOUGH and maybe if we can take a break here.
We can rewire the internal hook-up wire of phono/pre/power with high purity silver, we can rework with oil caps & z-foil resistors, exotic NOS tubes, change for a much better cartridge or whatever. It is not the end & all a pair of speaker cables. So, I can’t help but thinking that if the D is close to HF, then together with all of the major upgrades mentioned, the outcome could be much closer if not any better yet. I think the jump from D to HF can’t proportionately competes with a purchase of a decent source or a substitute elsewhere in the chain where needed.
Yesterday someone founds graphene, this time HF patented mag wave guides, tomorrow they should give us another revolution that works even better. Imagine if all investors could work synergistically in a single speaker cable. Unfortunately industry competition keeps the wheels turning and the plethora of ideas to solve a single problem, rarely concur. The most successful of them are not exactly available once they carry a five figure price.
The remaining question :
When a product is GOOD ENOUGH for us?

Geoch, 
Wonderful logic and wisdom. The mere idea that the Duelund cable is worthy of genuine comparison with the profoundly more expensive HFC is confirmation of the Duelund’s extraordinary value and quality.
Charles
Has anyone tried the Duelund in longer lengths? I need at least 20 feet. Would a double run solve (or cause) any issues?
gnostalgick, I understand Duelund is working on a 12 G wire that may be more suitable for longer lengths.   I have been doing some work on my music room and needed 25 ft to allow flexibility in placement of the rack.  I picked up 50 ft of  Beldon 5T00UP for about $1/ft.  It is 10 G wire.  Certainly it is nothing fancy, but I am amazed how good it is.  I do not detect any issues with respect to tonal aberrations, and it is quite grain free.  It is likely when I get done with the room I am going to need at least 18 ft lengths of cable, and as happy as I am with the cheap Beldon, it is going to be really hard to justify anything too expensive.   The Beldon is a cheap experiment.  You might want to give it a try.  It took about 3-4 days to get it from Blue Jeans Cable.  
Hey, look here;
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649307729-western-electric-we16ga-speaker-cable/
I had been using Belden 8402 interconnects and WE 14ga ( 16 ga was no longer available) speaker wire and was very happy with it until getting a Decware Zen Torii mkIV amp and the sound seemed harsh and "off". I switched to Mapleshade Double Helix Plus speaker and their transparency was a much better match with the Torii, yet something still wasn't right so I replaced the Belden 8402's with Coincident Statement interconnects and now the sound was too clinical for my liking. Out with the Mapleshade speaker cable and in with the Duelund DTC 16 ( which I prefer over the WE 14g I had) and voila......a more organic and natural sound to balance the very transparent Torii amp and Coincident interconnects. Obviously results are very system/room/listener preference dependent but one can't go wrong with at least starting out with Belden 8402 interconnects and Duelund DTC 16 speaker wire....they are practically free when compared to many high end equivalents! This hobby can become expensive easily enough, it's nice finding excellent products at such reasonable prices. 
Here is the wire I would like to try as interconnect cable;

http://www.partsconnexion.com/product31386.html

20 awg, Tin-Plated Stranded Copper & Cotton / Oil (DCA20GA), hook-up wire, Per Meter

INTRODUCTORY SPECIAL: $6.75 USD/Meter (3.28 ft.) Regular pcX Price: $7.59

Arriving End of January - Book Orders Now !

I will make a set and compare to my current ICs, which are multiple strands (4 per side) of high purity, solid-core, small-gauge (28awg) copper in cotton, and which are the best-sounding ICs I have owned out of many.  

Also awaiting the anticipated Duelund 12 awg tinned copper in cotton, which I will twist as a quad and cross-connect with two runs per side for speaker cables.

Don't buy into some of the the urban myths, such as the only way the Duelund 16 awg wire sounds good is as single runs.  Maybe on low-powered SET but more wire works better on both of my high-powered amplifiers.  Have had great success using two runs per side of cross-connected, 16 and 14 awg WE wire, which provides between 13 and 11 awg per pole.  Currently using two twisted pairs of WE 10 awg to bi-wire each speaker and it sounds very good.   I also made two sets of the Belden 8402 IC cables many have raved over, and I thought they sounded pretty bad compared to the ICs described above.  There is not just one way to do something and the same thing is not always going to sound the same in different systems and to folks with different listening preferences.  When "reviewers" start telling folks there is only one way to do something, I become immediately skeptical.

Dear
mac48025 & mitch2,

In case of speaker cables,
I agree with doubling runs (although I have a 12w SET 300B )

The best Belden ever produced is 1800F
You can try it with:
http://www.ab-system.hk/index.php?route=product/product&path=80&product_id=165
or :
http://www.audiophonics.fr/en/connecteurs-fiches-rca/ramm-audio-rca-plug-silver-rhodium-plated-tellu...
or :
http://www.audiophonics.fr/en/rca-plugs/ramm-audio-rca-plug-gold-plated-tellurium-copper-o-10mm-set-...
(in order to avoid soldering)

I think it is very important to not abuse the pF value of an IC by adding more conductors.

The 1800F is a pre-made cable ready for use, has the lowest capacitance, it is shielded, and so ridiculously cheap, that invite you to end them with the best available plugs. Cheap to the point that makes the DIY experiment pointless, with cotton, silk, beeswax and all the hard work. I’ve spend for the best RCA plug instead and worth it.
I have made ICs with Belden 1800F using :
KLEI absolute harmony,
WBT nextgen 0110cu,
WBT nextgen 0102ag & 0110ag
and all these bested everything upstream audio $$$$

We all have witnessed system compatibility. Interconnects particularly have strong favors. My last commercially available was the VDH "The mountain" paired with "The cloud" speaker cable and while it was a revelation on most systems, on flea watt SET were a big disaster .

And here comes the interest point of concern, the one that makes me very suspicious about the high-end society of ICs & SCs :
How is it possible this Belden 1800F to permanently performs no matter the components character situation, in between anything, in every system of any origin ?
This attitude has also the Duelund DCA-16GA as (naked) speaker cable.

I don’t claim these are the best-ever wires but at least they are studio quality and you can use them in order to address any unwanted behavior of your system.
Then you can proceed to taylor the sound by changing things to the right direction.

Best to you
geoch, the Belden 1800F does indeed look like a good cable. The "Foam High Density Polyethylene" is one of my preferred dielectrics and IMO better sounding than Teflon, which I sometimes hear as a shrill artifact. Also the thicker foamed material provides increased and consistent separation between the conductors, which is a good thing for interconnects. I am not surprised this cable is a consistently strong performer.
BTW, my comment on increasing runs of the WE wire was for speaker cables only. The quad, cross-connected geometry reduces inductance.  My multi-run ICs are a different animal since those wires are machine-braided. Since my system is all balanced, I do not use RCA connectors anywhere and my preference is for the Furutech 601/602(G) connectors.

brownsfan or anyone, I would be interested in the Duelund 12ga wire.  Is anyone fairly certain it is actually being developed and does anyone have any idea when it may be released?


I

I'm curious about the 12ga innards.
Seems that the golden rule is 0.25mm strands.
I have done many projects and this is my preference.
The Duelund DCA-16GA has 26x0.25mm strands.
If so, then why not just double run it?
Thanks geoch,

I'll give the Belden 1800F's a try. At their price how can I not do so? I'm using a Decware Torii mk IV tube amp which is a great amp but I hope to get the Coincident Frankenstein.....an 8 watt SET amp, might that be what you're using? The original WE wire was manufactured back in the glory days of tubes so mayb thats why this type of wire seems to work well with them. I'd be interested in hearing from those with SS amps using it. 
http://www.avsite.gr/forum/threads/set-monoblock-300b.137097/#post-1882270
mac,

I have been using the Belden 8402 along with the WE 16ga for the past 6 months. Have them with a Truth line stage BEL 1001 SS amp, and Spendor SP-1 speakers. They replaced Kimber KCAG and Anti-Cable speaker wire. I do not find any of the harshness that you expressed and they clearly outclassed my previous cable combination instantly. As a caveat, I have not cable experimented extensively in a very long time.
The Duelunds appear to be a superior design, and being so reasonable I will probably experiment with them in the near future. However, I could stay with the Belden, WE combination for a long time. In my system I find them  to be open, airy, tonally accurate with a deep quality soundstage.
Jetter,  I read about the 12 g somewhere.  I thought it was on Jeff Day's blog, but I can't find the reference anywhere.  When I needed some longer runs, I considered buying enough Duelund 16 g to double up.  Then I saw the comment about the 12 g in development  and decided to wait.  That is all I can tell you.

Thanks brownsfan,

Much appreciated, I think I will wait also, not like I need another set of cables anytime soon.  Of course the parts connexion sales price on the 16g will end soon. 

Mitch2,

Could you give your source for the 28awg solid core copper in cotton wire that you're using?  I would very much like to make up a set.

Thanks
There is now a 20 awg Duelund available. It's the Tin-plated copper, just like the 16awg being spoken about here. I have an order in to get some of the 16awg, and will be using this for speaker cable. My plan was to try the 20awg, and have this terminated for interconnects. Long story, SHORT....
It was suggested to me it would better to use a 24 gauge for regular interconnects, and actually go up to 30 gauge if I was going to use it as a phono cable, from table > SUT or phono section. Thoughts ?  (-:
Hi Dan,
Try Partsconnexion or SonicCraft and look for Jupiter hook-up wire.
Has anyone here made a comparison of broken in interconnects made with Duelund dca16ga vs dca20ga yet?  Jeff Day's comments were "very preliminary".  
It would be appreciated if anyone who has had canare or belden speaker cables  can compare the Duelund 16ga to them.
Post removed 
I’ve been comparing WE16GA, DCA16GA, DCA20GA, and Belden 8402 as interconnects for the past 6 months in my setup (Dynaco ST-35, Jolida Glass-FX DAC III, Hagerman Bugle 2, and JBL C-38s (130a + 175 + 2405).

I started off by making a complete set of interconnects using Belden 8402. The difference between these any my audioquest, crimson, and monster interconnects was astounding. I have never experienced such a magical 3D soundstage from my JBLs. I have loved my JBLs because of their warm, life-like midrange - but had not experienced a soundstage like that before.

I was able to get my hands on some WE16GA and made a few interconnects. I really appreciated the balanced nature of the WE16GA - the Belden 8402 tended to bit a bit darker in the midrange, where as the WE16GA was a little more flat across the frequency spectrum. The dimension wasn’t quite as amazing - but there was still a heightened sense of dimension with the WE16GA compared to past interconnects I’ve used.

I then picked up some DCA16GA - because…why not! My experience with the DCA16GA was very similar to the WE16GA - but with a bit more midrange detail than the Belden or WE16GA. For my system, the DCA16GA has performed very well - it brings in some detail to my already warm tube/horn system.

After reading about the DCA20GA I decided to pick that up as well. After about 2 months of listening - I think I’m beginning to settle in on a favorite. Initially I built a few unshielded cables to test out. The unshielded seemed to have a really nice tonal balance with very nice image-depth. I especially enjoyed the upper range detail it has brought out. Two of my favorite live records: We Get Requests by The Oscar Peterson Trio and Waltz for Debbie by Bill Evans have become especially enjoyable - I *love* hearing the depth and space of the lounges and the details that surround the audience.

My latest excitement is with Shielded DCA20GA interconnects. All of the previous interconnects mentioned needed a considerable amount of burn in time until they hit their stride. For whatever reason, the Shielded Version of the DCA20GA stood out immediately - in a *great* way. The midrange has thickened up. I’m not sure how to describe it, other than the music is dense, pleasurable, and excitingly spatial.

One last bit of info: I have also been experimenting with mix and matching all these different cables - trying to find the best placement for the cables in my system (i.e. what cable works best between different devices in my signal chain). I have found that it is really interesting how important synergy is - especially with these tinned copper cables. It is a fun and worthwhile journey - at a very low cost.



what more can I say - I am *enjoying* the music.



cheers!
cjwebber, thanks for sharing.  I did not like the Belden IC's (dull, dark and uninspiring in my system) and I suspected the 20ga Duelund would be the best of that bunch for interconnects.  I am not surprised that shielded cables worked best because it is my experience is that shielding is typically better for noise reduction purposes. I am glad it is working out for you.   I have a lot of WE16, 14 and 10ga wire here but will be trying the 12ga Duelund wire for speaker cables using two star-quad runs per speaker in a bi-wired configuration and comparing that to two twisted pairs of WE10ga wire per speaker.  I am hoping the Duelund will be better than a push since I am spending the money for the Duelund wire.
I have Duelund 16 GA as speaker cables for my Analysis Audio Epsilon and Air Tight ATM3. (1,5m)
DCA16 GA inter connect between Pre and amps 2.0 m)
DCA 20 GA interconnects between pre and  DAC (2.0 m)
DCA 20 GA betwenn Step up and pre (1.0m) shielded by Chris at Paers Connexion. It has been longer to burn in to and take some relative brilliance off.
Next step is to intervert 16 GA for the 20 in the pre to amp circuit.

I Pre ordered the 12 from Part Connexion for the speakers as I am curious. I will see what it brings to the table.

When I am sure of all that I think my quest for cables will be over. 

I am using the Duelund 16ga on the high pass portion of my AZ Crescendo speakers. I was using the WE 10 ga as my sole cable on my biwire speakers. I kept the WE10 on the bass and now have the Duelund 16ga on the highs. Much more detail for sure. Not sure if it is too aggressive however? Only 12 hours of burn in however? Not sure if it smooths out over more hours. We will see. A little too much of a good thing thus far in my system and to my ears.

On great recordings I love the Duelund, but on less than great it is a little harsh for me.

I forgot got to mention I also used the Duelund 16 as jumpers up to my highs. I liked it better than the WE 10ga alone. Thus far it is smoother than the Duelund 16ga run from my amp to the highs. I hope the Duelund wire mellows out with break in. If it does, it will be perfect.
My Duelund 20ga (un-shielded) is now being terminated by a local tech who is also a manufacturer of boutique electronics. My pair is being terminated with Switch Craft RCA's. If I like this interconnect, I may do the same, but this time shielded. So far I have been very impressed with the Duelund 16ga as speaker cable, but on a second system with a digital source.
grannyring- interesting observation. Sounds as if it's quite neutral, and it's exposing less than perfect recordings for what they are. I listen to my share of not so great recordings, so that may not be a good thing. I also plan to try the 16ga from my Jagusch crossovers to my Altec Valencia's. This will take the place of Belden 9497 for comparison sake.
Thus far I prefer the Western Electric 10 gauge wire over the Duelund 16 ga for speaker wire. The WE is far  more full bodied and easy sounding. The Duelund is just a tad to thin sounding and too alive for my system. This is after 20 hours of burn in on the Duelund however. I just don’t think it will change enough however to compete with what I like about the WE 10 gauge wire.


Now the Duelund 16 ga makes a wonderful IC......very good in this position! 
Interesting on how system synergy is everything. I changed my USB cable from the very good DH Labs Silversonic Mirage to the Curious USB cable. They are both very good USB cables. The Curious is warmer and a tad more rounded and full bodied. The DH Labs has more air and perhaps a tad more detail. 

Bottom line is I now prefer the Duelund 16ga driving my speakers mids and highs. The only thing that changed was the USB cable. It is all about total system synergy. What sounds great or best in one system may not in another no matter how " good" the wire.