I just bought a new one with the full knowledge that a replacement was coming. I got an amazing deal on the unit, which is far less than what the replacement will cost. No doubt the superlatives for new over old will be extensive but that’s okay, since I will have extra $$ to buy new vinyl!
So I guess what I am saying is that your thread title should reflect that good deals can be had on a new H1201.
Even if the deal looked good people would be wise to wait until someone compared directly the old and the new.
It is likely that the new version will be almost $2000 more than what I paid for my H1201. For some people this will be fine but for me, it is too much of a price difference.
Perhaps you would like to tell us just exactly why you anticipate that the new model will be so far superior to the old one. Because it is not necessarily the case that a tube-based power supply will make for a better sound compared to a solid state one. I for one have my doubts. Very often these days model changes are merely a device for raising prices.
+1. The only thing that can be said to be true about "new" is that it's different somehow. There is no entitlement attached to that word.
" Because it is not necessarily the case that a tube-based power supply will make for a better sound compared to a solid state one. I for one have my doubts. Very often these days model changes are merely a device for raising prices."
The only thing that can be said to be true about "new" is that it's different somehow. There is no entitlement attached to that word.
Statements that can be true or also be false. At least till the proof comes along to shift it to one or the other. Right now , its just speculation on all sides . Tube based power supplies for turntables like Brinkmans is proof they can be done and done for the better, so its plausible it could improve the 1201's performance in a phono section..... but....it still remains to be heard on this specific product. What the OP said about it being just " a little more expensive ", does create more speculation as well. That is one of two things this hobby has far too much of. Speculation and hype....but I guess they compliment together so well ...
H1201 retail was about $3500, H1202 is about $3750. Take home prices is another matter, probably vary.
Is there any reason not to have tube power supply in tube equipment ?
Everything is based on design. A tube power supply might be OK or not depending on component interaction.
That said, at the price point of the H1200 series, there is no reason NOT to get a better performing Herron VTPH-2a. And that's not just my opinion, but the opinion of every Herron owner I know.
No doubt there will be some review saying the new one is leaps and bounds better but that doesn’t mean much either.
+2. bpoletti I love the Herron!
I’m a tube guy but the one place where it makes sense to use solid-state devices is in a power supply.
I recently picked up a one year old 1201 here about a month ago and asked about trading it in on the newer model but was advised to sell it and buy the newer one because I will loose more on the trade in. On another note I couldn’t resist an older Fosgate Signature Phono Stage Preamp for a pretty decent price here on Agon a couple weeks ago. I have only been listening to the Fosgate for about a week/20-30 LPs. At this point I haven’t had the desire to hook the Allinic back up even though I really liked the sound of it. I don’t know if it’s the tube count(7), the type of NOS tubes or the rectifier tube making it sound more "tubey" but it definitely has a different sound that at least for now I prefer. I really wanted a Herron but couldn’t swing the new price and never saw one on the used market until just the other day after I already picked up the Fosgate.
Is there any reason not to have tube power supply in tube equipment ?
No , there is no reason other than bias based on blind beliefs not facts.
It depends more on the quality of the design of the circuit ,and has nothing to do with tube vs. SS . The Output tubes have more to do with the magic of tubes than the rectifier tubes in a good power tubed supply. World class products have been designed using both tube and SS circuits. Great sounding products have / can / are built using both applications, that is a fact.
Beyond the competence of the circuits design itself , opinions are usually just personal bias (ownership?) and many times lack of knowledge and blind stubbornness . Some of the best set ups and some of the more knowledgeable people I know long let go of that SS vs. Tube P/S which is better nonsense with an open mind towards both applications and employ both in their systems. Anyone who determines a unit is or will be bad for them (and thus everyone else), based on an unheard circuitry because its either tube or SS before even hearing it will always bias and convince themselves it will be inferior and dismiss it. That is a shame , and a further shame that someone else may accept that as a fact one way or the other and miss out on possible better options (for them) because of an opinion, and not really there own through actual experience.
Both can , and are, made to excel , and both can be the lesser of each other based on the quality of the design and parts used. It’s not as simple or cut and dry as Tube vs. SS. We all don’t hear the same, focus on the same frequencies, or listen to the same music , or the same room , with the same speakers at the same levels , yet many believe there is one solution to everyone else’s preferences and needs........their’s.............
"On another note I couldn’t resist an older Fosgate Signature Phono Stage Preamp for a pretty decent price here on Agon a couple weeks ago. I have only been listening to the Fosgate for about a week/20-30 LPs."
justinm- I read your post AFTER posting my experience. My Foz v2(orange LED's,not the blue v1) is 7 years old. I have tried a a few other popular tubed phono units head to head with the Foz. They all sound good, but not enough to dump the Foz. Decent NOS in V3 and clean power(power cord & PS Audio PP)
seem to turbo charge this already good phono amp. I see the V1 version on listings more than the V2 for pretty cheap.
In Allnic phono amps the quality of the tubes will effect sound more than
anything else. Allnics come with Mullard E188s, good tubes but there are much better tubes available in the NOS/NIB market. I suspect that Phillips tubes would be a better upgrade than a new power supply and agree that SS can be just as good as a rectifier tube power supply.
Even with the rectifier power supply you would need to upgrade the tube
to something like an 1950s RCA.
Tube rolling is another matter. It's often like cables, sometimes better/worse and sometimes it is about system synergy and preference. At least with Allnic you don't have to replace average quality modern tubes right away. Whether or not this new model is better we should know soon enough, but Allnic is a serious company.
Since all power supplies require filters that can only be made from capacitors, resistors, and inductors, we can speak to the differences inferred between "tube" and "solid state" supplies in terms of their few real differences, which can reside only in two areas: rectification of the AC that appears on the secondaries of the power transformer and regulation of the DC voltages produced by the PS after filtering. In the past decades, huge strides have been made in solid state rectifiers. It is my sense, after building or modifying several PSs, that Schottky diodes now can sound as good as any tube rectifier, and can outperform tubes in some ways (much lower voltage drop and faster start-up). I cannot hear the difference between a tube rectifier and Schottky rectifier diodes in one device where I have tried both, but maybe a slight edge to the Schottky. So that leaves voltage regulation, and this assumes that the voltage is to be regulated in the context of the PS. (Sometimes the regulators are placed on the audio chassis, close to active devices powered by the supply.) At the moment, all I can say is that a very well done tube regulator takes up a lot of space, costs more, but may sound a tad better than solid state regulation. However, the tube regulation is less reliable over the long haul. These are my opinions. It is certainly possible that the tube regulated version of the Allnic will sound better, not necessarily because of tubes in the PS but maybe so. I own a Silvaweld phono stage, also a design that came from Mr Park, who runs Allnic these days. In my Silvaweld, he used a tube rectifier in an outboard PS and tube regulation on board the audio chassis, takes up half the chassis space. It does work nicely.