Does a ripped cd onto a digital format sound better than the cd played on the cdp

Depends on your digital hardware and software and your CD transport hardware.  Whichever delivers the lower jitter and does not muck with the bits or the offset, that one will sound the best.

In general, off-the-shelf transports have higher jitter than that possible with digital hardware.  This is particularly true if the digital is a low-jitter Ethernet interface. In fact, very few digital interfaces deliver this low jitter, but it is available if you know what to buy.  USB is more problematic than Ethernet, but it can be excellent too.

Not that you cannot achieve low jitter with a Transport.  All it takes is adding a reclocker to your Transport, like the Synchro-Mesh and you will have parity with the very best digital computer playback.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

+1 with Ivan.
My experience has been that moving CDs to hard drive results in a slight decrease in sq.  Perhaps Ivan has identified the reason.  Streaming at “CD quality “ takes sq down another two notches.

Let's not mislead people.  Ivan is talking about playback using digital, not moving files from one place to another, or ripping.  Moving files will never degrade the track SQ. A good ripper will check other rips and make sure it is a clean rip and that the offset is correct.  This is a non-problem.

On the other hand, playback of any digital source over cables can and will degrade the SQ a tiny bit, depending on the cables and interfaces.  Usually not data errors, but added jitter.  Jitter is a degradation in timing and this can be fixed in a number of different ways before and inside the DAC.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

Yes, that's exactly it. It's counter intuitive. For an explanation see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grzoqEb2KMk&feature=youtu.be

This is a good explanation of how poor digital signal integrity can cause uncorrectable errors in playback.  It has nothing to do with "analog". all signals are indeed analog, but this is about signal integrity and noise.

The fact is that most digital cable connections using S/PDIF experience very low error rates.  If you have bad ground-loops and very poor cabling of long or very short lengths,  it might happen though.  The best rule of thumb is to use 1.25-1.5m long cabling if high-quality (low loss and low dielectric absorption).  Always use coax terminated in BNC connectors with 75 ohm RCA adapters as needed.  See this white-paper I wrote years ago:

https://positive-feedback.com/Issue14/spdif.htm

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

Jitter makes it’s way into things everywhere it can. Even the DAC receiver and buffering add jitter. Cables don’t produce noise, but ground-loops do and dielectric absorption in the cable can distort the waveform causing ISI (inter-symbol-interference). Reflection on the cable can cause a LOT of jitter, but this can easily be minimized by using at least a 1.5m long cable.

Ethernet signal integrity issues can easily be minimized using isolators and high-bandwidth cables of the optimum lengths.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

For Toslink cables I recommend this excellent one:

https://btpa.com/TOSLINK-XXX.htm

It's recommended to get at least one meter length to prevent overloading the Toslink receiver.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

The best method of delivery right now is Ethernet.  This is what I use, not USB anymore.

However, like USB, the playback app matters and the router/switch and cable hardware matters.  It's a shorter list of things that matter compared to USB.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

Since signal moves in cable at about 5ns/m then 3ns corresponds to about 0.6m. Any cable longer than that (including all internal connections of the source and receiver) will behave like transmission line (might have reflections).

It’s not sufficient to have the cable acting as a transmission-line. The inevitable reflections must be avoided at the receiver by selecting optimum lengths. This is why I recommend always at least 1.25m length or 6 inches, nothing in-between that. See this white-paper I wrote years ago on the subject:

https://positive-feedback.com/Issue14/spdif.htm

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

Steve, Ethernet directly into the DAC?  Not sure how that works. I run Ethernet from my Roon server to a Roon endpoint/renderer but then I2S directly into the DAC.

I designed an Ethernet Renderer on a module that can be installed in my Overdrive DAC or in a stand-alone Renderer called the Interchange.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156409.0

This can be used just like a Sonos, but with much better SQ.  You can stream Tidal or play tracks from any number of apps, including Linn Kinsky, Linn Kazoo, Twonky, Jriver and others.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

A lot of expensive digital cables don't state whether they are controlled impedance cables or what that impedance is. I suspect some are but I don't buy them unless they have stated impedance. Granted, 44KHz is not overly fast for terminated transmission lines but termination is never a bad thing in data transmission.   Besides, a properly terminated line with the proper transmitter impedance and characteristic cable nullifies the capacitance in the cable and the line becomes a purely resistive circuit.

44.1 KHz is not the issue (~2.8MHz actually), it's the risetime that is the issue.  In the textbook case, a proper termination will cause the transmission-line to become resistive, however in real-life it never happens.  There are always reflections and impedance discontinuities.

There is a minor problem is the RCA connector - it isn't possible to get a 75 Ohm characteristic impedance and maintain the physical size of the RCA connector.   BNC's do it just fine but not RCA's.

The problem with RCA is not so much the impedance of the connector, but the inability to terminate it properly to a coax cable and maintain 75 ohms.  This is where the real performance is degraded.  If one uses only properly terminated BNC cables, this problem all but goes away.  75 ohm BNC to RCA adapters are actually quite good.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

if you do have a music server/Mac/pc in your audio room, the best interface is i2s which nobody uses. I use Ethernet with cat7 cables since my dac has a network card built in, IMO, the only way to go.

I use I2S and many of my customers do also. Most of my products have I2S outputs and inputs. The problem with I2S is the lack of galvanic isolation and expensive cables, otherwise I love it because it does not get reclocked in most DAC’s. My S/PDIF is just as good BTW.

I agree with you on Ethernet. It’s the only way to go. There are still hoops to jump through to get great SQ however, like:

1) AQVOX or SOtM switch

2) CAT8 cables, Wire-World Platinum

3) Ethernet cable isolator, EMO EN-70e

If you do all of these, it will make a huge difference.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio