Do you think you need a subwoofer?

Hi Raul,

     I'm glad that you're very pleased with your system's performance after you added the electrical line regulators.  I'm not exactly sure what regulators these are but I'm very interested in them since reading about your great results.

     After re-reading your posts, I found that we agree on several opinions:

1. The importance of a low noise floor not only in presenting music recordings accurately, with more easily heard details and enjoyably but also because it enables the affects of small changes ('tweaks' such as power regulators, turntable tone arm/cartridge/VTL setting changes, power cord/speaker cable/interconnect cable changes, etc.) to be more clearly heard due to this increased accuracy, neutrality and audible details.  

       You achieved accuracy, neutrality and a low noise floor via component selection and your regulators.  I achieved this mainly through a change from a class A/B amp to a pair of class D mono-blocks (Aragon 4004 to D-Sonic M3-600-M).  I believe my mono-blocks have built in regulators that conditions the electricity prior to introduction into the amp's input stage.

     We use slightly different methods of regulating the home electricity going into our systems for the same purpose of eliminating artifacts and lowering the noise floor. 
 
2. The importance of good bass response in not only extending the frequency response lower for a more realistic experience but also because of the affect that good bass response has on improving a system's mid-range/treble performance and resultant improvement in a system's ability to create a more solid and stable sound stage illusion.

      You have achieved good low bass in your system by fine tuning the positioning of your 2 Velodyne subs over a period of years and I achieved it through the use of the 4 sub Audio Kinesis distributed bass array system following their progressive setup procedure.  

     The important thing is that,  through slightly different means, we've both achieved good  bass response in our rooms.
     The less important question of which method performs best, will have to remain an open question
     I think we both agree that the most important thing is that we're both happy with our systems and enjoying our music.

Thanks,
  Tim  

 
 

Dear @noble100 : """  1. The importance of a low noise floor not only in presenting music recordings accurately, with more easily heard details and enjoyably but also because it enables the affects of small changes .... to be more clearly heard due to this increased accuracy, neutrality and audible details.  ""

I don't know other audiophiles but me when read something about audio room/system noise floor never had the true significant meaning like this time like these " today " unique experiences.

It's obvious that all those twecks we did and do it with our each one system has as a target to improve its quality level performance and even if we do not took or take its importance every time we improve ( in any way. ) the quality level of the room/system what we did it was and is lowering distortion levels that improve /lower the room/system NOISE FLOOR but this time is the very first time I'm really aware of this system/room characteristic and its crucial/critical importance to enjoy at maximum the listen recording experiences.
For me the improved diferences were " an order of magnitud ": outstanding!

That is a real no-return path/road and a must to achieve in any audio room/system.

Perhaps, many of us think we already have it but perhaps as me we don't have it.



"""  2. The importance of good bass response in not only extending the frequency response lower for a more realistic experience but also because of the affect that good bass response has on improving a system's mid-range/treble performance .... """


as I posted the bass range is the foundation of MUSIC and to enjoy in our audio room/system we need first that that audio system be a full range one, not from 28-30hz and up but true full range ( even a little lower than 20 hz. ). With out that " full range " characteristics we just can't listen adequatly the MUSIC/LP/CD overall experience. This is a necessity not something that we could wish and it does not matters what kind or price level has the audio system: if it does not has the " full range " factor then it be short of and the MUSIC experiences are totally incomplete for say the least.

As you said the importance of good bass response, (I can add: good FULL bass response, is not precisely for extended bass frequency only but for the midrange/treble really shines too. I explain it in this thread here:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/do-you-think-you-need-a-subwoofer/post?postid=310058#310058  

yes LIGTHS ON, we left the darkness! We must try it and please forgeret about that: " I have no space/land/room " for two subwoofers because this is only one way to say: " I don't do it  because I don't think is an improvement in my already good quality level performance I have " .
That kind of way of thinking only makes we are loosing the real MUSIC meaning enjoy.

I can tell you and all audiophiles that no single tweack kind of changes we can do in our room/system can gives us the full rewards as the rigth bass management achievement along that lower NOISE FLOOR.


Btw, was so impressive what the electrical line regulators did it in my audio room/system that I tested through my bedroom 4K TV with outstanding  results too. It's like instead of 4K resolution the TV pictures/images been " 16K ( that does not exist. ). Of course I already bougth a 1K regulator that's the one rigth now I'm using with.

Regards and enioy the music,
R.

Dear friends: STOP THE PRESS and read before:

all my audio system links including the speakers/subwoofers ( even the speaker's crossover inductors. ) are wired or rewired internally with silver wire but my Phonolinepreamp because has no single internal wire through its design, the system interconnect cables are from silver too.

Well, two days ago that I opened one of my elctrical line regulators/conditioners I have to change two short internal wires/cables ( 15cm. ) and the only ones at hand were KCAG silver by Kimber Kable.

After that I just seated to listen MUSIC and " something " happened that has no explanation and that was totally unexpected because the cable I changed was a necessity more than to achieve a real improvement but it happens ! ! ! ! 

Then and due that I still have some KCAG cables I use it instead my after market power cords in my Phonolinepreamp and fenomenal THINGS followed happening ! ! ! ! 

Was so outstanding that I already ordered more KCAG to change all my system power cables.

The improvements were to many that can resume in two main ones and what these two represnet on the overall quality performance level in any audio system:

- NOISE FLOOR REDUCTION and

_  LESS ROOM INTERACTION with higher system electronic/speaker headroom levels.

Astonishing, is it?  ! ! !


Lesson: we need SILVER wires in the electrical power system cables.


Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Dear friends: First time I used KK 4TC/8TC cooper braided speaker cable for electrical line power cables in my electronics and especially with amplifiers I use it in shot gun configuration, this is that each single 8TC cable for the positive and other complete 8TC for N.

This is very important issue and is how I'm wiring with pure SILVER today all the system electrical line power cables everywhere.

Yes, it's a little expensive but IMHO nothing can wive us so outstanding rewards as this system tweack along the line regulators.

SILVER is the name of the game in this particular audio subject.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

I thought readers of this thread might want to read a professional review of the 4 sub distributed bass array system I discussed previously:

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/audiokinesis-swarm-subwoofer-system/

     This is actually about Duke Lejeune’s Swarm system but it’s virtually identical to James Romeyn’s Debra system that I own; exact same 4 ohm subs with 10" drivers, 1,000 watt class A/B ampifier along with the exact same setup procedure and wiring method.

Again, a reasonably priced system that delivers excellent bass in any room for both music and ht without the need for any room treatments and without any room analysis/room correction software or equipment. Yes, you do need to accommodate 4 (1 sq. ft. footprint and 2 ft. tall) subs in your room but it delivers the best bass response I’ve yet experienced in my room. I just want to let everyone know how well these systems work.

Thanks,
Tim