Maybe they just don't think of it. I find this irksome.
I always acknowledge response and try respond to question asap...
I always acknowledge response and try respond to question asap...
I find either of two extreemes: either people are incredible helpful and professional or they respond with very few words. Like many I'm sure, I have developed a very nice "e-mail relationship" with several members here and weekly/monthly chats about this great hobby who want to take the time to be curteous. Members in the other bucket I try to not let bother me. But overall, yes, I believe what you are expecting, Tvad, is correct.
I agree, it's inconsiderate. I always send a thankyou reply, and as far as I recall have received thanks from all of those who have contacted me.
I find a similar phenomena in forum threads, though not often. A person will post a new thread to which there are responses, but the original poster doesn't acknowledge the responses with a thankyou, what they did with the info, and if it worked. Threads are more useful to the whole community if there is closure.
Elizabeth, I love you!!!
I have just invented a death ray, and plan on ruling the world soon! I need someone with whom I can share my life with. You appear to have all the qualifications I require!
(Plus you have a cool stereo rig, to boot!)
Would you consent to helping me destroy most of the civilized world, (as an example to those who survive!), and starting a new world order with me?!
(Needless to say, I won't be turning my back on you, or giving you the keys to the death ray though!)
For some reason curtesy seems to have disappeared on the internet in general. I can understand why often an answered question in the forum receives no thanks :-), however, like Tvad, I remain baffled why at least half of the E-Mail inquiries I respond to get no expression of gratitude. Frankly I consider it rude to ask for and receive help and to not acknowledge it with a simple thanks.
What I think may be going on that differentiates the 'thanks' responses from the 'no thanks' responses, is that the requester has e-mailed a host of people with similar equipment etc to collect opinions, just as you would in the forum, assuming that he might get more candid responses than the PC responses one gets in the forum because of censorship. Actually not a dumb thing to do. But having received a lot of responses is just too lazy to thank everyone. Just the ones he thinks can give him further help get acknowledgement in the e-mail in which he asked a refined question.
I've become much more discriminate in offering help to folks with generic inquiries. :-(
Without a doubt I always say thank you if I email someone privately with a question or need advice and they respond. How some folks were raised is a mystery to me! It's common courtesy to say thank you when you ask for help and receive it. These days I think people are often so preoccupied with themselves, their wants, desires etc., that saying thanks has become irrelavent to them. Or, they were rasied in a family where the importance of expressing thanks wasn't taught to them. Some people were raised in very harsh families! There always comes a time when you need advice, or answers, or something, from others in our very small audio community. Common courtesy should always prevail. Grant, for instance, has provided sage advice to me on several occasions in the past, and I wouldn't think of passing up the opportunity to say thanks to him or any other 'phile who has taken the time to send me an email about our complex hobby. I'm also happy to provide advice to anyone who emails me and don't mind sending detailed responses. Once, I emailed a a fellow Audiogoner for advice about tubes. This person actually offered to send me a set of tubes free as a gift simply because I asked for information about tubes for an integrated we both have. It was an amazing act of kindness and generosity from a total stranger! I accepted this offer and offered to send him money for postage. Guess what? He refused. Incredible! It was great to meet such a person because of Audiogon. A perfect example of the phrase "the kindness of strangers." And there are many really decent and honorable people here. (some dealers too!) Unfortunatley, as in society as a whole, there are also the kind of people here who don't even have the common sense or good manners to say a simple "thank you."
I think the "no thank you" syndrome may be indicative of a change in psycology fostered by the 'net.
After all, the value of the internet is that we can now know almost anything semi-instantly if we go to the right place and ask the right questions (I've asked AGon for a non-audio, "generic questions" category but, to date, no action.).
So the non-thankers aren't being rude (by cyber standards), they are just using a part of "their brain" that happens to exist in your body (you don't thank yourself for answering your own question, do you?).
Live long and prosper.
03-16-07: DwellerI believe there is some validity to this. I also believe the growth of email interoffice communication as a replacement for telephone communication has fostered curt written communication.
The 'net has blurred a lot of norms. For instance, when you really wanted to make a point, you would 'put it in writing'.
Now, our major form of communication is in writing. I do, as a matter of courtesy try to thank people who respond to a thread that I have initiated. I don't expect a response to a post I made in the body of another thread.
I am honored that someone will send me an Email wanting more from one of my earlier threads...to the point of spending hours re-locating the exact source I used in the earlier post.
Dweller's comment about a 'change in psycology' is interesting. Have you ever noticed a tone to some e-mails that might be no different than those in an e-mail to an internet source, such as Ask Jeeves? Question asked, answer expected, no personal transaction whatsoever including an expression of thanks. Maybe I'm just getting sensitive to being seen as a source, not a person. Doesn't happen that often, but it does. With me at least.
Yup I try to be polite, it even bugs me when folks dont ask please or say thanks in a post, and I try to close my threads with a thanks, in an attempt to to be polite plus a hint to all members my question has been answered. Then if members still post I may not look again so I cant say I come back to say thanks.
Dweller brings up a good question to pose.
If this whole net thing didnt exist, or even if it does and you actually talked to somebody in person who amoung us thinks some of these posters would not be nearly as arogant and rude if they were face to face with real world humans who would punch them for their out of line efforts?
I am a smartass all the time and every member who I talk to or have meant knows this but I am wondering if these
"Typing Tough guys" are a joke to just me or you guys also?
Oh and thanks for your time,
I always reply with a thank you.
However not always get a reply to my e-mails when someone asks for an opinion.
And even once I had this happen:
got an e-mail from a guy asking about a certain speaker and I replied with a very thorough, nice and detailed e-mail reflecting my thoughts on the speakers in question.
Got nothing back from the original requestor, but got an insulting e-mail from his buddy, who disagreed with me displaying a fair amount of rage.
Can't figure this one out, but what are you going to do?
After retiring from the Air Force I owned and operated a small retail business. One day a young lady was hanging around the counter, just observing. Of course I had to ask what she was doing; she was doing a research paper and observing the language patrons used when placing orders. Well I started paying closer attention and realized "give me" or "I want" were used much more often than "please" as the first words for ordering. Now I never place an order without putting a please in somewhere.
As for questions from Audiogon members, I think very rarely has my correspondence ended without a courteous farewell.
Great thread, and about time too.
Thanks that took about one second to type., maybe less.
Thankyou that took about two and a half seconds, including fixing the typo I made printing it
maybe folks are just in a hurry . Havent a few seconds or less to spare. That took near thirty seconds or so.
Or maybe its because we live in a right click, left click world. A nameless and faceless push button atmosphere, of self serving immediacy and sequestered identities. It is indeed no wonder the lack of social graces remains so in force.
Yet to many, this is a community not a flea market. It does in fact provide much socialism, education, opportunity, and recreation. The occasional found friend, and found marvel. Those who endure this province show appreciation for it, and are its cream which make it up in kind . Then there are the rest who divulge their nature ultimately by their very acts..
I dont feel its poor parenting, but a choice. I see far too often social failings by mostly new members who have joined only to fill an immediate need for information, or acquisition. They neither contribute to the forums, nor provide closure to their current plan. Once found, they scurry away until another need presents itself.
I believe the web itself does play a part in promoting some degree of abhorrent social displays. Expressing gratitude for information requested upon receipt, is the rule for me, not the exception. It has nothing to do with whether or not I accept it and act accordingly, it is because another has taken their time and efforts to tender me some advice they have found useful, or believe it to be useful in my case. I will always acknowledge that effort.
The only time I will ignore such input, is when the purpose of the reply off thread is solely to gain a sale. I see sales offers given to threads I post as unsolicited and I question both their veracity and earnestness. Even so, I will sometimes reply, indicating my lack of interest pleasantly and succinctly. Mostly though now, I just ignore them. I see it as cheap, and desperate.
Correcting social flaws is beyond me. Enduring ignominious actions are at best tedious, and that seems the sum of it here. Far less poor behavior prevails in a face to face situation. Even voice to voice, over the phone attaches a tangible frame to things. I see no solution to the acts of others lowered scale of community etiquette. Its just gonna happen. Comes with the territory so to speak and it is a shame. Thats why the delete key is fast becoming my favorite key. Although I still love the control key, but its a liar. Just an illusion. So is its cousin, escape.
Usually the core of a person is revealed in the interactions within any venue. There are many here who are not afraid to reveal it to others in their generosity, experience, and altruism. To yield a simple .Thank you or similar accolade is next to nothing in repayment. It will however in acknowledgement partly refill the cup then extended.
I think its the very least anyone, from anywhere and at any age, can and should offer in return. The winners here as with anywhere else, are indeed the givers. They seldom account for the majority yet are easiest to distinguish.
In the immortal words of tony Soprano at his mothers wake, when being consoled by his associates, each would ask, How are you doing or Are you OK he replied each time, What are ya gonna do?.
Im going to keep on doing what I do in as positive a fashion as I can. Its too late for me to regress now. I am concerned if Elizabeth and that fella with the death ray get together however, but I think that union will be its own undoing. I offer that only because I am immune to such devices having been calloused by so many social shortcomings while interacting online.
Thanks much for the thread. Perhaps it will increase at least for a short time, some level of gain in conveying amenities in both worlds, real and web.
Ah, I do miss the good old days when etiquette and common courtesy were the rule of the day. I also was raised to be well-mannered. Lots of please, thank you, you're welcome, yes sir, yes ma'am. Table manners were also of the utmost importance. We actually used to eat regular meals together as a family. Do families do this anymore? I try to be considerate in my e-mails and usually say not only thank you or you're welcome, but have a great day or weekend. By the way,Grant. Have a great weekend. Happy St. Patrick's day as well. Give my regards to the family and happy listening.
I'd settle for correct spelling and grammar ;--) but this reminds me of an incident that took place in Filenes Basement (department store) in Boston. A customer, a woman, took an armload of merchandise up to the cashier who folded it nicely, packed it all in bags, swiped the woman's credit card, and handed her the receipt -- all WITHOUT A WORD, SMILE, OR EYE CONTACT.
As the woman gathered up her purchases, she turned to the salesgirl and said, "A 'thank you' would be nice . . ." to which the salesgirl replied, without missing a beat, "It's printed on ya receipt!"
I've almost always been thanked for responding to questions, and I sure hope I've remembered to thank everybody I've asked questions of. But here's the real question, perhaps: If you get a query, answer it, and then get a thank you in reply, should the etiquette be that you then have to send the final email saying "You're welcome"?...
I am thinking of this medium as meant to be efficient and very informal. Stating a kind greeting is always OK, but taking the trouble of making conversation itself is mostly based on mere willingness. And I never blame anyone who does not since the sender is known anyway.
To me, email is a delight, THE medium to let go of unnecessary politeness. I do not care about heads and tails in an email. Just the message itself will do really. It is more because of others who consider email as 'formal' as letters that I do greet and thank the sender. This is also the reasin why I am using the automatic signature functionality in my email application.
Letters in writing (or, for that matter, attached to an email message) is more formal IMHO, therefore it more 'appropriate' to greet and thank.
Kind regards from Edam, The Netherlands, Europe,
There's been a few more responses since I piped in yesterday. First, I'm with all who are annoyed at the folks who don't include even a first name (or puncuation for that matter). Second, the only people who really spark a hair on my neck to start on fire ( for lack of courtesy) are those who refuse to even acknowledge my presence when I hold open a door. I hold doors consistently for others (looking to see if anyone is behind me is standard in exiting a building), often waiting a minute or so for elderly. A nod or quick thanks happen about 75% but some people just act "entitled" to my act and ignore me completly.
I always say thank you. I am however a hunt and peck typer. I try and keep things short and to the point for that reason.
I find most people on this forum to be polite. My activities have dropped up here in the past 18 months. You can usually tell by a persons initial contact how polite they are... Good topic.
Have I said Thank You for your advice (even though directed to someone else's posts), shared experience, and considered opinions. Not to mention the entertainment.
I think Dweller, Newbee, Blindjim, and Piet all make a viable point. The paradigm in communication and community is changing. Again.
BTW - I am getting ready to post a question, so I am sucking up early.
It's been said before, but I was reminded when it happened to me again this week: When a seller places an ad, how hard is it to briefly respond when someone emails indicating they'd like to buy, replying thanks but the item is sold/sale pending as of now, instead of simply quitting responding at all? I wondered for two days before this seller finally tagged their ad sale pending, the only way I knew why there was no reply to my offer. This is rude -- if a seller goes out to solicit response he ought to at least acknowledge it when people take the time to read his ad and email their interest, regardless of whether he agreed to sell to someone else. I always do it. Just common courtesy.
Whether I have already sold an item or it is sale pending, I always reply to any questions. What's frustrating sometimes, i.e, I've already sold the item, marked the ad as SOLD, even wrote in the ad headline and body of the ad that it is sold, sometimes repeating the words ****SOLD, SOLD, SOLD *** with stars and asterisks to shout to all viewers that it is sold, and I'll occasionally still get the e-mail with, "Is this still available?" Now that's frustrating! Can anyone relate to this?
Good question. I usually keep the ad alive until the buyer has received the item and we both give each other the proper( hopefully positive) feedback to finalize the deal. Then I usually cancel the ad. There's always that small chance that the item might have an issue that would cause him to either back out of the deal or return the item. By keeping the ad alive to that point, I can either cancel it or fix the issue and re-list the item. Very rare, but stuff happens.