I recently replaced the stock cord on my Fathom F112 with a 2 meter Wireword Aurora cord and was pleasantly surprised to hear a little further tautening of response. The sub shares an electrical circuit with my RCM Sensor phono preamp and I noticed an unexpected improvement in its sound as well. I suppose that might be explained if the cord's noise filtration reduced sub amp digital noise getting back into the electrical circuit.
Try an original Synergistic Research AC cord for your powered sub. They can be had for around $125 on the used market, and will provide you with lots of tight, powerful bass energy. No need to spend half a grand on an expensive AC cord for your sub, when you think of the frequency range that is important here.
Yep. Shunyata on my Art of Sound, Wireworld on my AAD and an Audio Magic XStream on my NSMT.
Oh, and a DIY on the Earthquake.
I have a older Velodyne HGS 18 sub. When I change the stock power cord for a PSaudo ac12 power cord. It made a good improvement. Floor noise was reduce and the sound was a little tighter.
Wywires Juice II works great!
I am using Synergistic Research T-3's on my Depth subs I notice tighter bass with less overhang or echo. Yes better cables do make a difference.
Try Pete's TWL 7+ for the ultimate slam. I bought a pair for my JL F212's & was amazed the difference compared to my Audioquest NRG-3 pc's.
when i had my REL Stratas i found them to work really well with VH Audio Flavor 4s. the bass was a lot more tighter
I use Audience powerchord e with my rel strata iii. It is worth the extra $. However, before I spent the $ for the powerchord e I upgraded the neutrik cable. I think this is the more important first step in rel cable upgrades.
Jump on a high end cord!!
What neutrik cable did you upgrade to?
I agree with Valinar. I replaced the the stock Rel cable with a Nordost baseline made to Rel spec. The sub bass got a lot tighter and I heard attack and decay I never knew was there.
I purchased a Hidiamond P3 powercord for my svs Pb 13 ultra and I had to turn the gain down 4-5db. Cleaner, powerful, tighter articulate bass. Had a S.R T3SE on it and for less than half the price the HD P3 devoured the Synergistic research cord. Enough said.......I also run an Hidiamond XLR 2 on it and It is a considerable difference than the RCA to the pre...
If you have tried Synergistic's new Element series cables in your system then you ears will tell you, like mine, these are the best cables out today. I would like to recommend to try Synergistic Research Element Tungsten Power Cord on your Rel B2 Subwoofer. I have owned this subwoofer in the past and I have demo'ed HD P4 and Valhalla power cords through The Cable Company. And the Synergistic Research Element Tungsten Power Cord was the clear winner. Take a look at their website for the specs and links to many reputable websites with very positive reviews. The Cable Company has this cable on their used website for 30% off. An excellent deal and much cheaper over the other 2 PCs plus many others I've tried. You can return it if you don't like it. S.R. New element series blows away any HD power cord I tried. Including the P4. Then there is the Element CTS Rel Spec reference interconnect. This cable is THE best for the Rel and compliments the Element PC excellently. And so does the lower costing Element Tungsten Rel Spec interconnect. This is just my opinion, I just recommend trying the S.R. PC on loan from The Cable Company. I've been using Rel Subs for years and tried them all. But S.R. always sounds the best. Have Fun and trust your ears. Thanks.
Since you are dealing solely with the lowest frequencies, I suspect having a cord with sufficient gauge conductors is the biggest requirement for a sub.
I would try a Hidiamond P3 on your sub. It will perform better than any mentioned above for a very low price tag. I've had S.R and tossed it and never turned back. Especially for at least half to a third of the S.R cords. If you are running XLR try the XLR 2 - just amazing bass. Tight, articulate, accurate and deep. I had to turn my output on sub down 4-5db. If you really want to go to the end try the Hidiamond P4- rave reviews - those who've bought always keep.
You can read in my HD threads and others with the rave reviews of actual buyers of the Hidiamond cables - not people who just say they've tried them and haven't bought one single HD cord from the dealers( you know who you are).
Well there are 3 votes here for Synergistic Research power cords. And only one from your no-name/inferior Power Cord company that does not offer a money back guarantee or a trial demo period on any of its products.
A very nice member (and friend of mine) of Audiogon sent to me his HiFi-D P3 and P4 PCs to Demo in my system for a month. The NEW Element series from Synergistic Research blows away these PCs. The P3 costs the same as much of the Element Copper and the P4 costs 2 1/2 more than the Element Tungsten and that middle of the line PC puts the P4 to shame. Imagine what the Element CTS line of cables can do. Have you tried them all in your system? I did and made my own conclusions and so should anyone else. But if anyone can not demo a cable or if there is no money back guarantee, I say and stay away from those companies.
Just because you are a disgruntled past owner of S.R. products, does not mean you have the RIGHT to convince other people to try and sell another product for another company. It actually makes you look like a sales person for that company. It also makes your creditability look bad because if you look at your past posts in your cable discussion section, you mostly talk about that Hi-Fi D company Vs. S.R.
Everyone should demo these fine cables and form their own opinions in their very own audio systems. Just like I did. Thank you!
Yes, funny but the power cords cost more than the subs. Each sub also has its own dedicated line as well. I preferred the stock cords to Pangea AC14Se. The Nordost Brahma's are a definite improvement over either.
Just because you are a disgruntled past owner of S.R. products, does not mean you have the RIGHT to convince other people to try and sell another product for another company.
Actually, he does have the RIGHT to post his opinion on this forum about how different products sound to him, and can express his recommendations as long as he is not a representative for the companies discussed. Readers can decide what they want to believe.
We did test many different powercables on our subwoofers. There was one powercable who beat them all by far. Purist Audio gives superior deep low freq, better timing and even in the higher freq it was better. These days we go up to 140hz. This makes the integration a lot better with the speakers. Thicker cables work often a lot better with subwoofers. I sold Nordost for about 10 years of time. There cables are not the best combination for subwoofers.
You know what's pretty clear with Joeyboynj, is that you vaguely give simple words like "blow away" and you can never ever explain in detail the differences between the cords or the qualities of the HD cords. Which makes me/us believe your an S.R representative or dealer. Am I correct? You have ignorantly posted on the HD thread about S.R and the Hidiamond P4 vs Nordost Valhalla PC thread so why don't you practice what your preaching. You sound very hypocritical to all of us on the Gon here. It also doesn't matter what's in my system. This thread is about cords. You go way off topic and your not looking very good so far......
You meantioned in the "do you run a high end power cord on your sub" thread that quote on quote that "you've demo'ed HD P4 and Valhalla power cords through the Cable Company". Can you kindly explain to everyone in all of Audiogon how you demo'ed the HiDiamond cords from the Cable Company when they don't even have or sell Hidiamond. Really, I'm sure we all want to here your explanation how the S.R element tungsten was the clear winner. And in this thread you say your nice friend sent you his Hifi-D P3 and P4. Where did you get your - and the real name of the cord is a HD P3 - not Hifi-D P3? So which story is it? Tell us all.
All this clearly tells all of us that your conclusions of the Hidiamond cords are false and you are either a S.R representative or you just can't deal with all the Hidiamond quality cables and people liking them. You state if no one can demo a cable(meaning HD) than quote on quote "I say stay away from those companies". Who the hell are you to say that to anyone? What gives you that rite?
Plus you also spoke of quote on quote "no name/inferior power cord company that doesn't offer a money back guarantee". Hidiamond is the company and Italian made. Do you call Ferrari's/Pagani's/Lamborghini's all no name/inferior sports cars. I dare you. Almost all people that buy Hidiamond cords - keep Hidiamond cords. That's why there aren't many up for sale online - but the list of S.R's is bigger than my kids letter to Santa and we've all seen that. Just saying the truth.....
This all also tells us that you are unfair and dishonest about what you write in the threads concerning Hidiamond cables. I have had S.R cords and spoke lots of times to Ted Denney and Elliot in the past, great guys. But I listened to HD and liked the quality of sound better and put lots of money back into my pocket - the threads say it all in honesty. You know what's really realistic, is the greater number of people I sold my S.R cords to asked me why am I selling them and I said I'm changing to Hidiamond. They actually sold their S.R and switched to Hidiamond after hearing them. Just their opinion like mine.
All cords do things better/worse than others. Some people have good ears or bad ears, compatible/incompatible gear, more money/less money, system synergy is the given term. But then there are people like you that trash Hidiamond threads, cords and actual people who are honest, sincere and passionate about what they have, believe in and listen to. Honesty is the best policy which clearly here you don't have. IMO, I think you should stay off all the threads.....and I would think others will too. Your credibility if any went out the window.......my credibility and honesty is in the threads? I don't tell anybody what to do, I only make suggestions.
Everybody should try anything they please and in the end, choose the best quality sound they hear for their own budget.....let your ears decide and when you've sat down, closed your eyes and listen to only your music and not your speakers, cords or components, you know you've got it rite - like I have with Hidiamond.....
I owned and sold many Valhalla powercables. But for subwoofers they do not go low enough. Compared to Purist Audio there not in the same league. I sold most of them to clients with sources and pre amps. Because they work here a lot better.
This discussion is rife with self promoting silliness regarding characteristics of power cables like "don't go high enough" and "speed"...we're talking about power cables, and these opinions seem to ignore what these things actually do, and do nothing more than offer a forum for unsubstantiated rants like mine. Oh...I use a very thick PS Audio "Plasma" cable into a Power Port for my sub...interestingly, since it's called "Plasma" I assume it uses pulsating hot gas instead of copper wire, although I haven't actually looked inside. It wasn't expensive, but it is fast and sounds better than all of the aforementioned crap I haven't listened to...I'm certain of this...fast...really fast...
More Money never will be a garantee for better quality, for cables the same story!!
Just a quick note;
No HiDiamond cables are available through the Cable Company or have they ever been available through the Cable Company.
Also, although Bacardi is an extremely good client of Worldwide Wholesales, he does not work for Worldwide Wholesales and is in no way associated with Worldwide Wholesales.
My friend and I have Audioquest NRG-5 power cables on our REL subs. I have 2 REL Stentors III and he has 2 REL Studio III subs. The Audioquest NRG-5 power cables sound very good and seem to be cheap if you can find them. I am not sure how they compare to all the above but they seem to work fine and sound good.
We compared the Kimber PK10 gold, Audioquest NRG-2, 4, 10 and Wild and the Purist aqueous with a subwoofer. The kimber was very good for the money even beat the NRG-10. The Purist beat them all with ease. Even compared to the Wild it was still beter. More control, better timing. I sell a lot expensive loudspeakercable and interlinks from Audioquest. I asked Audioquest to make soon better powercables. They said they are now developing better ones. I am ready to test.....
Get'em Bo1972!, I am reading what you say here, I got a little laugh here, Seems nobody has acknowledged you, I enjoy your opinions, keep it coming, sooner or later, someone will say something to you, cheers.
Audioquest is now busy to develop new powercabels. I think they are tired about my comments that there powercables are not good enough. I Always say: It is as it is. So keep it simple!
I noticed an improvement in sound quality with upgraded PC's on my JL f113's while listening to 2 channel music. For HT (movie effects) I don't notice that much of a difference.
I can say with near certainty that Audioquest likely does not care one teeny bit what Bo thinks about anything. To think there is much, if any, performance disparity between well designed high end AC cables connected to subs is laughable, and displays a strange support of some arcane supposed perception of quality based on sales experience and live violins. There, I said something.
People who use poor old Rel subwoofers maybe will not hear any difference between different powercables. It can make a very big difference with new and good subwoofers. These days you can use subwoofers to much higher freq. ( like 140 hz, cause of the fast respons) this makes the integration so much better. The better powercables works better in the low freq. but also in the freq above 80 hz.
The person who is chief of Audioquest Europe has been 3 times to my house for listening. We talk often about Audioquest cables. We also spoke a few times about there powercables. He asked me to test a few. I gave him my opinion. I also told the same info to Bill Low last year wenn I met him.
Audioquest Europe arranged the new Wild Dog pure silver interconnect for me. One week ago Audioquest America had the parts ready for this new top model subwoofer cable. I will receive it soon. I will write a review about it as well.
I dont think a higher crossover is any help in a 2 channel system. My RELs are crossed at 22 Hz. Not being able to do a 140 Hz is of no concern to me and my system.
And by the way the poor old RELs seem to make pretty good music better than a lot of the new stuff out there. Most of the new stuff is too boomy for music.
Faster respons of the units is the key to better integration. Till 2012 I used to max 80hz. In the past I sold many many Rel subwoofers. You could not use them to higher freq. They did not have the control and speed to be used this high. After I got information that higher freq. would give a better result I tried it out. I was surprised how much better the integration became. I started with 100, 120 and ended at 140 hz.
More speed means better timing, more control and better integration. I play about 80-90% stereo. Most tests are done at stereo use.
I have class D amps which are fast but I have grown tired of the bass. It just seems too fast and taut especially for low bass. I like the mosfet sound for the very low bass in the REL subs. The mosfet just seems like the right speed for the low bass. I dont think I would like your subs crossed at 140 Hz as it sounds like what I already had.
It is as it is....Wolfy! Audio is all about looking and thinking further. Nothing is as it is. The need to do things better as they are, gives higher endresults. Hearing is believing. And that is why quality sells at the end. And yes it is that simple!
The reason why I can use this is cause of the way I use Audyssey Pro. I measure it at totally different places and hights compared to Audyssey. The end results are stunning. It gives what I call Stealth integration. Without it I also cannot use it this far. ( to be honnest) It gave me the quality I Always dreamed of.
I dont think Audyssey Pro has any effect on the quality of sound produced from the equipment. I have 16 sound panels and bass traps and constantly tune for the room but this still does not change quality or the speed and weight of the music being produced sound wise that is why you still hear the differences in equipment, cables, etc.
Statements like "it is at it is...nothing is as it is" simply isn't much besides gibberish. Risking signal degradation or alteration by using digital room correction to limit and compress sub signals weirdly adjusted up into low midrange frequency levels (that will clearly interfere with any wide frequency range main speaker) is odd, and I can only assume this silliness absolutely MUST have digital room correction to work at all. Room correction gizmos are generally designed more to detect and limit the specific frequencies that produce standing waves or what a particular listener feels is unnatural or "lumpy" bass, and not necessarily to repair woofer abuse (!). RELs aren't designed for lower mids as they know that it doesn't make sense, and BO's "set it up weird and fix it with Audyssey" approach likely has far more impact on tonality than AC cables. I suppose the resulting overkill sounds like music to him, but my sympathies lie with anybody walking into his shop and his dream world inspired by what he thinks violins sound like. The rest of us can listen to properly set up subs (with fat AC cables) that add the mojo to their rig without risking the likely pitfalls promoted by a delusional self important salesman.
Roomcorrection is only a part of Audyssey. Audyssey EQ and Volume give more drive and even resolution. The way Audyssey uses it, it works but I didn't like some parts of it. So I started to use it differently. The same thing about how they measure a subwoofer. I started to measure it at totally different places and hights. This gave superior drive and resolution. What I did at the most important show in our country was using the pre amp without the systems and with all the parts of Audyssey. People were amazed about the differences. The owner and chief of the biggest Audio magazine in our country called us to say we were the Absolute sound.
Wolfy is an amature ( with a cheap old Rel subwoofer of more than 10 years Old) who also has an opinion about highend products. I do this as a profession for almost 16 years. I sold and owned a lot of highend. I Always want to create the best sound. If there was a better sound on the show they would not called us.
Wolfy does not like my approach, this says more about his limitations as a F... AMATURE. These kind of people were there also at the show. Jealous people who said; you use the centre speaker. So I said put your ear on it. Most people never heard such a touchable and 3D image in there life. Many shopkeepers came on monday to me to say: We never heard this level in sound in our life. It is that easy to understand the difference and hear the quality.
I will invite Wolfy the amature when I am in America. Hearing is believing. That is how I work, I want audio to be open and honnest. I love competition. I love to battle against other shops to give the best sound for the bucks.
Audyssey EQ and Volume are parts of the whole system. I can improve the articulation of voices dramaticly. Even when we compare very expensive pre-amps word endings and breathing of singers is not that clear. Hearing is believing, so we compare all the time. Clients Always can choose what they want. We try to get the best quality possible. That is why I sell and choose only those products which are superior to others. I can sell everything I want, but I only interested in the best. This makes competition to other shops so easy.
Cables are a different part of audio. But for me one of the most fun parts. Cause of the thousends of testst I did with cabels I know how much you can positivly influence the overwhole sound.
You need to understand all the different properties/qualities every single tool ( amps, speakers, sources, cables, conditioners etc.) has. Then you can get the max out of them.
The important difference between Bo's world and mine is the fact that I don't claim to have the answers or deem the sound of my dusty old REL sub to be superior to anybody elses rig...I simply state that my system reproduces recorded music very well in my listening room, without the aid, expense, or need for extra signal processing. Others may relish the sound of Bo's approach and delight in the use of room correction, but many simply don't care about it...this hurts Bo's feelings but, alas, his issues with the need for relentless campaigning for support of his approach is best left to his therapist. You don't need to understand every tool, especially a tool like Bo.
Audio is just about the best quality in sound. Quality is something what people hear and understand very well when you do it right. It is about the joyment and happiness it can give to people. At the end it is about emotion and music as pure as it gets. That is the main focus.
I try not to use any equalizing or Auddysey as it takes away the dynamics in the system. That's just my opinion.
In the past I sold Tact/Lyngdorf. There system I never liked. At the end you get less. In the beginning when I started with Audyssey I heard clear advantages, but also the limitation. After done 2 measurments with Audyssey ( there way) I started to do it differently. I had thoughts that could solve the limitations. And yess I created a much better level in dynamics and also in resolution. These days I can use Audyssey EQ and Volume so precise that I have more dynamics and resolution than without. I can let people hear the difference with my measurment and without it. Now with Audyssey Pro ( what is superior compared to xt-32 or below) I have more freedom. Compared to very expensive pre amps I can let people hear articulation of voices so much clearer. 2nd and 3 th voices are better separated then with many expensive highend pre amps. The same about decay and definition of instruments. What I do is let clients choose a number they know well and we compare them with there preamp and the Onkyo with pro. The difference is so big that you do not want to go back anymore. There it is; it is all about quality and all the details you can hear.
mmmm, pass the pop-corn please, I might miss something here, wolf_ Garcia, You are up for best comedian of audiogon, no offense, this is a compliment, you have had me laughing out of my chair!, when I said, sombody will acknolege you Bo1972, I did not know saying that would lead up to this, opps, sorry fellas.