Speaking of autism, I’ve oft opined on these fora, gentle readers, that Asperger’s syndrome, a mild and common form of autism, seems to rear its head rather often here. Perhaps what is commonly referred to as audio nervosa is actually our old friend, Asperger’s, in disguise. Hyper focus on cables or tweaks, especially the more outrageous ones, seem to invite the same sort of obsessive and cumpulsive behavior as an escape from reality as math and science in the example just described. You know, things like Tuning, CD Tweaks, PWB Tweaks, vibration isolation, cables, fuses, But not in a bad way. At least not usually. 😛
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maritime, if you’re pretending to be an ignorant and pompous ass you’re doing an excellent job.
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lanceo
"Break in" implies there is change, as in a perceived improvement. To effect that change it follows there must be a physical change to a passive component operating well below it's design limitations... in this case the wire. DON'T BE RIDICULOUS! If your premise were true, we would be awash in "improvements" to Ohm's law.
Yes, I am an engineer. No, I'm not closed minded. Im' just not inclined to re-prove established facts whenever a doctor, lawyer or an executive banker takes notice of what I do, day in and day out.
>>>>Well, goodie for you but nobody said it’s the wire. That’s a Strawman argument. Oh, I forgot, engineer’s don’t know what a Strawman argument is.
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Many of us are engineers? But not you, one assumes. Just going by what you say, no offense. You haven’t made any technical argument. Plus any real engineer, especially one experienced in this sort of discussion, would have certainly recognized Feynman’s famous quote. You brought a knife to a gun fight.
If you don’t actually HAVE a counter argument then maybe it’s time to pack your bags and head back to AudioKarma. You have to explaining to do. You know, like things over on A-Gon are a lot tougher than you guys thought. 😬
“Shut the cave door and back to pigmy country!” 🦍
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The legacy of inhaling too many aviation fuel fumes. 👨🏻✈️ 🧠🍳
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No need to guess or try to snow us with super scientific lingo. We already know how burn in works. It’s not that complicated. It’s been explained a bunch of times. Shut the cave door and back to pigmy country!
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Reliable jibber jabber from glubson and busboy 🚌
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Did I do that? My subtle irony must have gotten lost. 🎃 |
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Gee, what makes you say that? It’s the old Br’er Rabbit and Tar Baby routine. And he does it so well. But he’s a two trick pony. That and his always delightful, What about this, what about that? routine.
After all this time most people don’t know how the internet works.
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Maybe glubson should call NASA or AES or MIT and see if they’d be interested in getting involved in researching cable burn in. In fact I nominate glubson to be the official cable burn in coordinator. Be sure and report back when you have the answer. 👨🚀 And while you’re at it see if they can get to the bottom of fuse directionality, why cryogenics improves the sound, and why premium fuses improve the sound. We’re all dying to know.
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More Scooby Snacks for bozo 🤡
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Nothing funnier than two dudes eating Scooby Snacks. |
Mmmmmm, Scooby Snacks for bozo 😋
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glupson
So I am not the only one to doubt Einstein as the biggest science star that we made him into?
Don't put words in my mouth. I think Einstein deserves to be the big science super star ⭐️ he is simply for turning Newtonian physics on its head. He gets a pass on any mistakes he might have made.
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The real question is, would Einstein be on board the burn-in train? 🚂 Recall Einstein was not (rpt not) on board the quantum mechanics train. He missed that train. Even thought he won the Nobel prize for the photoelectric effect, which is pure quantum mechanics.
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Riddle. What do you call a lawyer who’s up to his neck in wet cement?
Answer: Not enough cement. |
Uh, oh, looks like someone just experienced the famous glubson wit and irony. In fact this whole thread has become a study in wit. Or half of one anyway.
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Are you telling me the best idea anyone had on this thread was a scam? Well, color me impressed!
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Marx quotes,
“Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.”
“I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it.”
“I never forget a face, but in your case I'll be glad to make an exception.”
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That’s interesting. If I recall correctly Michael Green of Tuning fame sometimes bakes cables and lots of other things in the oven, controlling temperature and time, obviously. I tried it with some CDs a few years ago and think I heard an improvement. I’ll try again today at 200 F for ten minutes maybe even twenty minutes. So, I guess you never know. Nothing says lovin’ like something from the oven. 🍪 🍪 🍪
of course, I would be remiss if I didn’t point out that the home freezer (48 hrs) can provide a big percentage of real cryo treatment, not only for metals but almost anything you can think of - CDs, LPs, CD players, cones, power cords, cassettes (!), Blu Ray discs, HDMI cables, etc. |
Just hold your nose whilst eating, Flyboy. Problem solved! 😛
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A vacuum would be faster. Maybe Flyboy has some to spare. 🚌 😴
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Do I hear the soft refrain of dueling banjos? 😳
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Then why is your nose purple, bus boy?
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Are you hungry, bus boy? 🚌 Open wide, here comes Mr. Airplane.
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That’s why air is such a good dielectric, silly goose. It sounds good right out of the gate. Not everything takes the same period to burn in. Everyone knows that. |
Wow! That was fast! You’re on the ball today, bus boy. 🚌
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“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — 'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.”
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Neverending Pissing Contest
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Those are not outlandish claims. Well, maybe to an inept person, but even then. Is that all you got? 😬
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I’m pretty sure opinion is admissible in court. Some opinion is more “expert” than others, that’s all. That’s why, in the case of judges or lawyers’ opinions, they’re called legal opinions. Anyway, that’s my opinion. 😳
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blueranger
I think the nonbelievers are overlooking the circumstantial evidence of the vast numbers of listeners that can tell a difference and the cable manufacturers that spend untold thousands of careful listening hours to perfect their products while listening to burn in.. In a court of law would this prove burn in is not a fallacy but true? Known science would be taken into consideration.
>>>>>I hate to judge too quickly but my sense is that naysayers aren’t really interested in evidence. Whoa! Did I just say that?! 😳
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I have not seen these outlandish claims cable manufacturers make. What are you guys talking about? Can someone do me a solid and post some of them. I want to viddy them with my own eyes 👀 Share! Share!
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Cables should always wear their winter jackets when going out in the cold. |
Or maybe, just maybe, he’s as inept as you are. Oddly, perhaps, the ones with no conflict of interest do not seem to know anything about it. Just an observation.
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bobbyd3
Hey geoffkait,
Since you’re on the Dielectric thingie now, maybe it would help if you knew the Definition if the term?
di·e·lec·tric/ˌdīəˈlektrik/PHYSICSadjectiveadjective: dielectric
1. having the property of transmitting electric force without conduction; insulating.
nounnoun: dielectric; plural noun: dielectrics
1. a medium or substance that transmits electric force without conduction; an insulator.
Capacitors use Dielectric material that blocks DC (Direct Current), and passes Alternating Current (AC), also known as Audio Electrical signals. There IS NO Dielectric material in Copper Speaker Cables, so I really don’t follow your point? But please keep believing all the Bullshit that Cable companies, and Their Advertisers spew to get Suckers to buy there $200/Ft Speaker Cable! “A fool and his money are soon parted”
>>>>>Bobby, you’re pulling my leg, right? Of course copper speaker cables have dielectric material. What planet are you from? Didn’t you read any of the burn in articles I posted? Let me guess, you don’t read explanations because your mind is closed, right?
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I hate to judge before all the facts are in but it appears the bobbyd38 dude hasn’t been paying very close attention to how this thread has developed. Hint: we’re off the copper thinggie. We’re onto the dielectric thinggie now. |
Stop the presses!! Audioquest explains cable burn in. And guess what? It’s not really rocket science. 🚀
“A highly misunderstood area of cable performance is the subject of cable run-in, sometimes (inaccurately) referred to as “break-in.” “Break-in” properly applies to one-way mechanical phenomena, such as a motor or a loudspeaker surround. Cables and capacitors do not “break-in”, rather their “dielectric forms,” meaning that it takes time for the dielectric material to adapt to a charged state.
This process is quite audible and explains the signi cant improvement heard in electronics, loudspeakers and cables as signal is applied over a period of time. It has long been noted that cables (and all audio com- ponents) sound better after having been left turned-on for a number of days. It has also been noted that once turned off, the component or cable slowly returns to its original uncharged state. For many music lov- ers, this means that they are almost never hearing their cables in their optimum state.”
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Ganainmanm
We say our thing, get flamed,and more or less go away, although I think it is probably a good thing so those who (correctly) thought they know a little about science and engineering can realize MANY other well educated people understand a crock of marketing silliness is indeed just that. But be sure GK can at least outlast us since his whole being is in it and seems to have nothing better to do. Peace out.
>>>>I see you came back for some more abuse. There are apparently two kinds of audiophiles. The kind that likes being kicked in the head. And the kind that enjoys doing the kicking. Knowledge is what’s left after you subtract out all the stuff you forgot from school. You may have been well educated but that was a long time ago. In fact, now that you mention it, I’m not sure I’d call engineers in general well educated. But that’s for another discussion.
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It’s refreshing to see someone else fall into glubson’s trap of endless back and forth bloviation. |
2noheadphones,
I can interpret for myself who is spewing jibber jabber and who isn’t. I suspect this is a simple case of you have been following the wrong sheep. Your big hero, Roger Russell, doesn’t know anything.
How about them tomatoes? |
Can you provide any evidence to support that statement? |
Breaking News! This just in from Galen Carol Audio.
“Cables: Most all cable manufacturers agree that break-in is a result of changes in the conductor and/or dielectric. According to one manufacturer: "The insulation (or dielectric) will absorb energy from the conductor when a current is flowing (i.e. when music is playing). This energy-absorption causes the dielectric’s molecules to re-arrange themselves from a random order into a uniform order. When the molecules have been rearranged, the dielectric will absorb less energy & consequently cause less distortion."
Cardas has, for years, included a Cable Break-in Guide with their cables. In it they state: "All cables need a break-in and warm-up period. Better cables require longer break-in. With all cables, the more you play them and the less you move them, the better they will sound." The unique geometry of Cardas cables require that "...the strands be of equal tension... Current flowing through the cable during break-in, and each warm-up period, will relax the structure of the strands."
Another prominent cable designer believes that during the break-in process electrons are establishing new micro pathways through the conductor material. changes in the conductor is the primary reason for the improvement realized through break-in. They believe that most of the signal travels across the surface of the conductor. Viewed under a microscope the surface that appears smooth to the naked eye is really a series of peaks and valleys. The irregular surface forces electrons along a circuitous path to their destination. When a cable is bent or twisted, new tears and fissures form, disrupting existing pathways and requiring new ones to be formed. This explanation lends credence to reports that cables need to be re-conditioned (after) being handled. I’ve seen this in a very real way.”
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I see you were unable to provide any proof that burn-in doesn’t exist. Just as I expected. All that stuff you just posted is unsubstantiated jibber jabber.
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I hear the hardest part about flying big buses is trying to stay awake. Is that true? Also, is it true you’re required to wear Mickey Mouse ears when you fly? |
no2headphones
As to the opposing view on the mysterious and magical process of speaker wire burn-in, no such data exists and the idea has been debunked countless times. One doesn’t have to look hard at all to find the proof of this.
>>>>Interesting. Can you provide the proof that burn-in doesn’t exist? Share, share!
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Gosh, I thought everyone would like that Cardas article. Color me embarrassed. 😳
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