From ad hominem attacks to using multiple accounts to discredit a poster (with exactly the same logical fallacies).
And just this morning, I lectured my 9 y/o not to use terms like “triggered,” as such terms are not commonly used, let alone accepted as representing a universal meaning. If you mean “angered,” then simply use that term. 🙄
@mental How long have I been here? That you need to ask means that you can’t figure that out on your own? Seriously?
There are quite a few here (earth) who tend to make absolute statements. "Brand X sux" or "it is stupid to do it that way". Sometimes these are knowledgeable people. But I think they respond this way to make themselves feel good or seem more knowledgeable than they are.
They often couch this sort of behavior in the idea that they are "straight shooters" or they they are "frank" or that they "don't suffer fools". Usually it means that they just don't have any tact or regard for others.
Most of us have let ourselves respond in ways that we shouldn't so I'm not throwing stones. Just saying.
And then there are the trolls. They are here (earth) to disrupt and insult.
In my experience this is a universal problem on earth that is magnified by the internet. Audiogon seems slightly worse than a lot of other sites I frequent. I don't know why.
I had to step away from Audiogon for a while for this reason (and my tendency to get drawn into the pig wrestling).
Now I try to avoid any threads about contentious subjects altogether.....except for this one.
I don’t think it is the primary aim of anyone to obviously or even subtley, to denegrate another. anywhere. at anytime.
however, people tend to post online as though they are a different animal now and then. as while online, normal social constraints are disolved, invisible, or just ignored.
I mentioned to another person here recently, and privately, I am old school. I speak to whomever as if they were sitting across the table from me. regardless, online, on the phone, mail, text, or email.
Audiogon has expanded thru the years with its membership and as such it emcompasses a multitude of cultures and social demographics as such demonstrating respect and common courtesy should be key in any debgate, discussion, or argument, but once more, people without apparent boundaries can become devoid of social ettiquites and protocols.
lastly, the emotive content is vacant in our posts. only the bare lines of words are displayed. without the emmotive or expressive feedback sometimes things are not well received.
say what you mean.
mean what you say.
don’t say it mean.
be well, jim
Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems you begin this thread for controversy, what was your intention if not that?
I’m easy going, I try to laugh with folks. You made the choice to take my comment as being offensive instead of laughing about it.
You have a good day there, celander. Think I’ll move on to another topic :)
The Internet can be a strange place. I like to assume the best of people and in most cases, I think writing for posting on a chat board tends to be clinical sounding even if that isn’t the intention. Most of the time, people are dashing off a response which can seem brusque.
Trolling has been commonplace since I first started using the (bulletin) boards, back in the mid-’90s. There were people with some pretty aggressive personas who, in person, were meek individuals.
I find myself spending far more time than I like on the Internet and I am only on line when I’m home in front of a laptop. (I don’t post from my phone or even surf from a handheld when I’m out and about). Even so, there is an aspect to being on the Internet that is addicting-- and I think we are all worse off for it, despite the value of being able to access vast amounts of information remotely.
@celander ...just how long have you been online?
@mental How long have I been here? That you need to ask means that you can’t figure that out on your own? Seriously?Wow! This just typifies the problem with written communications such as emails and blog posts - devoid of all the subtle and not so subtle verbal clues that a real conversation has. When I read Mental's "how long" post, I took it as a jest because of the added "*chuckles." I also believe that Millercarbon was trying to be funny with his "triggered" comment. BTW, I don't like the term "triggered" either but for completely different reasons. I do, however, understand the humor in his comment.
When I post or write and email, I always try to proofread (a lost art I'm afraid) what I wrote from the standpoint of the person reading it to see if it might be misconstrued (and to see if I've made any embarrassing typos). That said, I think it's constructive to not always assume that a seemingly hurtful post was meant that way BECAUSE of how easy it is to misinterpret a comment. On the other hand, I DO see an awful lot of comments that are intentionally hurtful and it makes me sad (and I second what Gdnrbob said about the state of this country).
sorry. I was in a hurry. had to go shopping and my ride was here.
. and ’subdle’ is such a hard word to spell anyhow.
The Military showed me some ways to cope with most anything.
Learn, adapt, then overcome. and…. Don’t sweat the small stuff.
it escapes me from time to time, that I am able to just ignore things rather than get upset with, or by them.
an old saying goes: The odds around here are pretty good that the goods are pretty odd.
the key is to let other people be other people, regardless. don’t care for their thoughts? move on. or just forget about them.
AS I said, and other’s here have pointed to, sometimes posts are taken far to litteraly, out of context, or a post was done in haste and not fully developed so their meaning was clear enough. I’m very guilty of this lack of congruity now and then. I know what I mean… so then everyone else should too.
true too, as with reviews, take everything written here with a large grain of salt. those in the ‘know’ will be quite evident they are trying to be helpful sooner than later.
that’s all. ignore and press on. it separates the ‘wheat from the chaff’, so to speak.
the ‘wild and wooly dark web mandates those who interact therein, grow thicker skins.
it does not however remove accountability for untoward or cruel behaviors.
subdle or otherwise. lol
I didn’t criticize anyone for using “triggered.” I know what folks mean when they use that term. I simply related a discussion about using formal English I had with my son on the way to hockey practice. It’s easy enough to figure out how long one has been on line, at least here. So I responded in kind to the sarcasm. Tit for tat. No harm, no foul.
More and more, posts are initiated for the purpose of generating controversy or pushing people’s buttons.
Other posts are just plain ridiculous.
In other cases, a post with an obvious error is initiated by an inexperienced member, and these tend to get shot down (appropriately, I think) at the outset.
When I was in the USAF during residency we had a primitive 'email' system but anything you wrote could be seen by everyone in the hospital. All of us residents were very close and all got along quite well but we liked to give each other a hard time in good humor.
I can remember being approached by a number of hospital staff and nurses about how all of us residents seemed to hate each other and were so mean spirited.
We all knew the ribbing was in jest. Its what tied us together during those stressful years (working 90-100 hours per week, sometimes 36 hours without sleep). But it didn't translate that way to others.
Point being, it can be hard to decipher internet communication. Sometimes we take offense when none is intended.
Celander, Your comment above just illustrates my point about how something in writing can be misconstrued. You say that your didn't criticize anyone for using the term "triggered" (and I believe you) but when you said 'And just this morning, I lectured my 9 y/o not to use terms like “triggered,”' you implied that your were lecturing the poster.
Logic and Tropes and Schemes are no longer taught in college these days, and Debate as a "sport" is not held in high esteem any more, so arguments in any online forum (or in the general news environment today) are rife with poorly-argued posts and positions.
ARGUMENT is not historically a derogatory or negative term, but it has become so in our current culture.
Represent your POV logically and then move on. Maybe listen to a few online college debates to learn how to express your thoughts or facts and see if some of that civility rubs off, as well as the logical and correctly-argued points.
All this would be much more interesting with the correct approach, and people's feelings would be spared the uneducated diatrabs that sometimes occur. Intelligence tempered by education is NOT a handicap regardless of what some people think today.
I would guess that those who revel in their lack of education still visit witch doctors when they are ill? Probably not, huh?
Snowflakes – how will they ever make it in our world.
No matter how you’ve been educated / reared – the world is a tough place to survive and succeed. No matter what you’ve been told… everyone doesn’t win a trophy just because they participate. The world has winners and losers. The winners buck up, persevere, press on – no matter what the opposition presents. Losers fold and complain about the bullies who harass them.
Our nation needs to reinstate the selective service draft, or simply require everyone to enter the military upon high school graduation. After basic training and a few years in the Army or Marines – the Snowflakes would understand and be better prepared to survive and excel in our world – actually become winners… and… respect those that are and who persevered, even sacrificed to provide them the opportunity to become a winner.
@djohnson54 well, that was not my intention. Just going with what the discourse here was leading and dovetailing a discussion on the very same language I had with my son that morning driving to practice when he used it (yet again) after I asked him to not accept that language from his 3rd grader pals as his own.
But it I appreciate your perspective all the same.
I see the notions of "trigger" words and "micro-aggressions" as indicators that our culture is getting close to its nadir. I'm sure it is further away than I think and likely to be a lot worse than I can imagine. Kind of hope I'm not here to witness it.
This is not just a curmudgeonly rant. I think it has everything to do with the idolatry of the self and the cult of solipsism. If the self is the ultimate entity then it follows that it should brook no insult and that any slight against it is blasphemy.
It is human nature to feel that each of us is the center of the universe. It used to be that dispelling this myth was the corner stone of raising a child. Today academia has latched onto this in a big way and formalizes the idea of self importance. When we teach our children that this is true then we do indeed turn them into 'snowflakes'.
When something as tiny as a "micro" aggression is elevated to the level of real or actual aggression and something as simple as a single "trigger" word is seen as an assault the attempt to elevate the self has turned into making the self as fragile and delicate as a snowflake. Ironically, the attempt to elevate the self has weakened it to the point of uselessness and ultimate weakness.
The result is that such delicate egos have to make the world safe for themselves by suppressing the free flow of speech and ideas. Also an irony since those are inevitably the tools of tyranny which a population of snowflakes will be ill equipped to resist.