Do I go from a Primaluna HP Integrated to Schiit Freya+ and a pair of Aegir Amps?


So, In the quest for bigger, better, faster, louder...etc.
I am considering going Hybrid with a Schiit "Freya+" tube pre amp and pair of Class A Schiit "Aegir" amps...well as they say, better than Class A!
Anyhow, interested in the dynamics of solid state and the sonics of tubes up front, opinions please...I am thinking that hybrid without Class D amps, and using something more pure might work well........

Thank you boys and girls....


eag618
I have an opportunity to buy an HP Dialogue Integrated for $2600, I think that’s a steal.


So why go against what you just said here??
Stick with the Schiit, less trouble and less coloured sounding.
I agree with Wolf_Garcia! I think the Schiit combo is going to work out for me more than the PL. I have heard that the Auto Bias system is the death of the tube sound and is fluctuating as much as 15mA, has anyone else heard if that is correct?


Cheers George
OP, that’s a strong deal. You can’t go wrong at that price if it’s in good condition. 
jbhiller, I am in New Bedford, small city on the ocean south of Boston!  I have an opportunity to buy an HP Dialogue Integrated for $2600, I think  that's a steal. Do you agree? Comes with the original tube compliment all PL EL34'sNS 12 AU7'S
OP, where do you live?  If you're in Chicagoland you can come here my Primaluna HP or possibly borrow it. 

Plus one on tube rolling.  I use KT 150s with the amp under certain circumstances (typically lower efficiency more modern speakers).  I use 7581A or EL34s when driving horns. 

Primaluna is great but not the end all be all.  You've heard all the upsides. Here are the downsides. 

-Default setting is ultralinear--you have to have the remote to select triode
-Aesthetics could be easier on the eye.  Not ugly, but not pretty either
-Not the last word in clarity.  My Elekit 300B amp sounds clearer with more realism. 
-No pre-out


Decware is exceptional and easily one of my favorites! With my 98db omega speakers, linear tube audio is my absolute favorite. Not quite the bloom as with the decware, but it is simply breathtaking. So, from primaluna, decware and LTA would be a very solid choice.
Davesaudio1 I have studied Decware and Steve Deckert and his amps for a long time and they are just fabulous, wish I could afford his Zen Mystery Amp...I however cannot.

This seems more like a sideways move to me. A few gains will be had due to going to separates but that primaluna is a great integrated so I don't know if it will be a big improvement as much as a different sound. If you are trying to get as much performance as possible then yeah by all means separates all the way! Enjoy your new set up. 
You may want to consider Decware instead of the above.  I admit I haven't heard the Schitt gear you mention, but I have heard the PrimaLuna and many other amps in my system as I am  a dealer (was a PrimaLuna dealer and had that unit).  The Decware (and I am NOT a dealer for him) by and large fried all the competition. I have his Zen triode SET amp (SE341.5) modified with Jupiter Beeswax caps and have it bridged to mono which give 12W Class A per channel.  His power supplies are huge, and the amps sound like they are on batteries.  I am driving Quad 57's with them-not your most efficient speaker-and they do all the volume I need, with delicacy, huge soundstage, depth through the wall, and tight bottom end.  Admittedly subs handle 60Hz on down.  Everyone that has heard them will or are going to buy some of his products.  They are dirt cheap for the performance.  I also got the OTL tube preamp w the same caps, and I spent all in $6400 with shipping.  My previous setup I had 3 times that invested and the Decware beat it.
Good Luck on your search.
I agree with Wolf_Garcia! I think the Schiit combo is going to work out for me more than the PL. I have heard that the Auto Bias system is the death of the tube sound and is fluctuating as much as 15mA, has anyone else heard if that is correct?
The comments about Schiit products are silly...they enjoy a fine reputation in the audio world and don't "degrade" over time to any degree differing from other brands, if at all. All of the Schiit components I own work perfectly and have been examples of clever engineering and solid build quality that other manufacturers can only imagine as they lose market share to Schiit's USA made yet often far less costly world class components.
Study the link I gave and follow it to the letter don’t forget to remove the jumper links on the speakers, and double check everything before turning on.

If you have two amps the same, and your speakers like you have that have mid/high speaker terminals and bass speaker terminals then vertical bi-amping is the way to go.

BTW: You need a Y adapter on the preamp left and right outputs
Like these  https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-RCA-Audio-Y-Splitter-Plug-1-Male-To-2-Female-Gold-Plated-Adapter-Connector/291217630582?hash=item43cdec6576:g:waoAAOSwxCxT7GNs

Cheers George

Georgehifi,Tell me more about the vertical bi amping, that is an interesting idea.
Tell me upside, down side etc...
eag618 OP
Schiit "Freya+" tube pre amp and pair of Class A Schiit "Aegir" amps...well as they say, better than Class A!


Go vertical bi-amping with the Freya into both Aegir amps and into the Klipsch Forte 3 speakers. This setup will make the Forte 3's sing.
http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/uploads/monthly_2016_02/7_Vertical_Bi-Amp.jpg.bae61afb49...

Cheers George
his speakers are rated 8 ohms at 98db I think he's fine with the single Agir.

from the Forte spec sheet:

https://f072605def1c9a5ef179-a0bc3fbf1884fc0965506ae2b946e1cd.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/product-specsheets...


  I have my Finale Audio 300B integrated up for sale right now  I've been thinking something similar,  going a Freya and Aegir maybe First Watt if funds are there. 

me personally I'm tired of tubes and the costs of 300b's every year or so. Hell a good set of new production 300b's are what an Aegir is worth lol. I've spent $1500 on tubes this last few months  re-tube my integrated, I'm done with output tubes costing hundreds each. 

glen 
Agree with several here.  The Schiit electronics are nice for the money, but they are going to be on the harsh/sterile side.  I was actually quite impressed with the Primuluna equipment for tube (and I'm not a tube fan). 

Lot's of choices for rolling out tubes.  For the 12au7, PSVANE if you want the most highest resolution and neutral tubes manufactured today (best modern manufactured tube in my opinion).  PSVANE makes EL34 tubes also. 

Or go towards something more romantic like NOS such as Amperex or others.

Some people recommend trying KT120 or KT150 to push up the power.  I have limited listening, but my ears tell me that these higher power tubes will tend to be shouty and have some grain.  Definitely not as sweet as the KT88 or EL34.
@pesky_wabbit  is on the right track with the different tubes. Have you tried different pwr amp tubes in the Primaluna? Even if you haven’t, my vote is still for the Primaluna nonetheless. It’s hand wired with top notch build quality, where the Schiit has mostly SMD components on the PCBs, not that that’s necessarily a bad thing. 
It’s your system though, and it sounds like you want something different. If you want bigger, better, faster, louder, have you thought of a couple of Schiit Vidar amps and a Freya + ? 
If you want bigger faster louder make sure the Prima Luna is running KT150s.

Otherwise save up enough pennies to make a real upgrade. With Forte IIIs the amp is unlikely to be a system bottleneck. I suggest you look for improvements elsewhere.
I have the Primaluna Dialogue premium HP and have it powering some AR 308HO speakers 93db in a 15' X 18' X 10' ceiling the room is carpeted and I have wall treatments and I get plenty of bass oomph from this set up, I think you should look into some wall treatments or other correction treatments like broadband bass traps or acoustic panels.I mainly listen to blues and hard rock and sometimes I feel I have almost too much bass.
Leave the Schiit in the toilet.
I have the following equipment and have run the following setups:
1. Schiit Freya+ preamp > First Watt SIT-3 amp > Magico A3 speakers. 
2. PrimaLuna Dialogue HP integrated amp > Magico A3

Trying to be objective I think if you want tubes or a tube sound, I would stay with PrimaLuna. If you want that clean Class A solid state sound then the Freya/solid state setup is for you.

I’m a little concerned due to lack of experience with the Aegir as to how that will drive a 4 ohm speaker. But as was said, time and again for reasonably good quality nobody beats Schiit. But as far as upgrading on the tube side, PrimaLuna is the upgrade.  Not Schiit. 
a single aeiger would be plenty with your khorns but youd be limited to unblanaced inputs
To you question of tube pre and class A solid state preamp, I say yes very good combination. One of the best combos I had was the AES (Cary Audio) AE3 DJH tube preamp with a Pass Labs Aleph 30 class A power amp. I still have fond memories of that system with plenty of power driving 87db speakers in a medium size room.
The Schiit system your interested in looks promising for a very reasonable price. I've had good luck w/ excellent sound from a Schiit phono preamp and have their DAC coming shortly. Yes to Schiit for bang for the buck.
Schiit gear is good but having owned both brands, Primaluna is far and away better. The parts quality, the build quality, the sound quality, the longevity...all better than Schiit. Every piece of Schiit I had was nice at first but slowly degraded over time and had issues. First crackling, then intermittent failures needing a restart, then inputs on the DAC would stop working and Schiit customer service would just shrug. Primaluna has been solid for years. Zero issues. Sound quality compared to a Luxman $9k integrated was almost indiscernible in comparison. 

Schiit just couldnt hold up so I don’t trust them as a brand or a company. 
Thanks Wolf, I am still on the fence and for Tuberis, the room is small 12X13 and not a lot I can do with it. I have heard 3 dimensional, speaker disappearing sound out of a 40+ year old Marantz 2238B and an almost as old pair of Paradigm "Export Monitors" from the early 80's and that is what I seek!

I bought all this equipment long ago when I had hair!

Schiit Freya preamps are fun (!) and recently improved (I have the original version and it's great sounding) so that's likely a real good idea, and you need only one Aegir to get cookin' (I use a 12wpc single ended tube amp with Heresy IIIs...killer sound, plenty of headroom...2 REL subs are also in the pile). The good news with efficient speakers is the ability to use any amp with 'em, although lower powered Class A or single ended tube amps are addicting and keep you in the efficient speaker domain.
the PL amp you mentioned is outstanding sonically and has plenty of "oomph." Your stated desire for sonic changes suggests possible room interactions? Have you done your "homework" to make your listening room advantageous?
Speakers are a pair of just broken in Klipsch Forte III's 98 dB efficiency that sound just fine......The reason for considering the change is the fact that hybrids seem to better control the bass, and soundstage in the PL, I am not that thrilled with!
what speakers do you have? i wouldn’t use the aeigirs with any speaker under 97db sensitivity, and with impedancedrops under 6ohms
I'm using a tube preamp with a solid state amplifier, and it works well. However, it seems the Prima Luna is very highly regarded, so this raises the question of why upgrade? Perhaps an upgrade to your speakers would produce a more dramatic/audible change?
Good question, I'm curious as well. But they are pretty new so I don't expect to hear much soon.