The is cheap copper full of impurities.. cheap insulation tooo.
And every time you bend it, it gets worse.
But if the idea floats your boat...
And every time you bend it, it gets worse.
But if the idea floats your boat...
"The is cheap copper full of impurities.. cheap insulation tooo."
The same cheap wire that is used from your wall outlet to your electrical panel box, that many have their very expensive audio A/C cables connected to.
Just something to think about.
I say try it, you never know. I tried this a while back (12/2, not 12/3 though) and didn't make much difference with my Klipschorns that I had then. Some speakers are more cable sensitive than others.
I need to run 4 sets of speaker wire 24' over a stone floor. There is a fireplace between my speaker (best placement in my 1,100 sq' room) giving me that space behind the main sofa the best placement for my rack of gear. I have removed the passive crossover from an old pair of Speakercraft (4)ribbon/6.5" cone combos and are bi-amping with a pair of vintage McIntosh M60s and Audio Research Classic 120s (4 mono blocks.) I do have a Von Scheikert Tower sub as well. 100 feet of spendy cable could be a fortune. Ideas?
I don't remember the exact guage but they were easy enough to braid (not really easy they were kinda stiff green jacketed). Just like Grannyring I used 3 insulated solid core wires in each braided leg for the speakers one braid for pos one for neg. Yes I bought the wire at Home Depot, Honestly I thought they sounded really good but couldn't resist all the hype from the cable makers and bought "real" Jena Lab braided copper but aside from the high caliber connectors I think I was equally satisfied with my cheap imitation cable, it was thicker guage than the Jena Lab.
since I have to run 25 feet, might I braid a larger wire, say 12 awg? Also Since they are over a stone floor I thought I would put them into a "wiremold" floor raceway that has 5 tracks made of aluminum. What about polyester expandable sleeving? I've also seen posts where rather than binding posts , solid copper is hammered into a loop.
What about using solid core thermostat wire as speaker cable?
Southwire 18/5 Thermostat wire.
I saw this mentioned on the net before and seemed like something fun and inexpensive to try out.
I made some from the "patio- cord" extension cords sold at big box retailer's.
It sounds fine, I wasn't sure at first but either it broke-in over time or my ears adjusted- I'm never really sure which. I'd do a double-blind test, but I live alone and I can be very convincing and quite gullible. Oh, and I've read recently that all copper made these days is oxygen free. I don't believe everything I read, nor do I believe everything I think.Try it- If you're a tinkerer you'll swap it out eventually any way. I've spent more and gotten less. Of that, I AM certain!
Just received my order of 12 and 16 awg of that silver plated wire. 12 awg looks like 14 awg because the teflon insulation is thin and the 16 awg looks more like t-stat wire. As a better dielectric than PE, it doesn't have to be as thick, I guess. Not talking high voltage anyway but we are talking low capacitance. It's also fairly stiff. Still flexible but nothing rubbery about it. Doesn't fray when insulation stripped either.
On the stuff you ordered, you did notice that was 10 awg combined, right? Meaning that each wire of the twisted pair is closer to 13 awg.
I'm very much into (DIY) solid-core wires, in fact I use them exclusively throughout my setup as both power cables(16 awg copper, PE insulated, from the Danish equivalent to 'Home Depot'), speakers cables(Mundorf Silver/gold, ~16 awg, teflon insulated), IC and AES/EBU digital cable(Mundorf Silver/gold, ~24 awg, teflon insulated).
This may be a hotly debated topic, but as a very general rule I find solid-core wires sonically superior to multi-stranded alternatives. With both the copper and silver/gold(99%/1%) wires I've tried out the same positive characteristics shine through, although the Mundorf wires are more open and transparent(i.e. less restrained and more extended) - however also much more expensive, though worth it - than the Home Depot originated copper variants as speaker cables.
As (non-shielded) power cables though the copper wires sound very satisfying to me, and compare favorably to most anything, and much more expensive (multi-stranded) alternatives, particularly where shielded, I've tried. I'd be very interested to experiment with teflon insulated solid-core copper wires as power cables, being that many has mentioned PE is not the most ideal insulator.
With regard to the above claimed "impurities" found in the Home Depot-style solid-core copper wires, I'm sure there's nothing to it. I've read up on this, asked around, and at least here in Denmark the copper quality used in these cables is oxygen free and flat out excellent. There's nothing second grade about them. The typical yapping about from many within the hifi-community about these impurities is unfounded and exposes snobbery, if you ask me(and not least my ears). The problem is these cables are far too cheap to be considered with any serious interest by those who've been indoctrinated by the hierachy of "audiophile" cables and their (marketing proficient) manufacturers.
For speaker cable use I'd recommend trying out no thicker than 16 awg aolid-core copper wires, although very long lengths might benefit from a "beefier" wire.
10awg is about enough area to feed a 5" mid. Thicker wires means lower resistanse = reduced dynamic loss.
be aware that sc copper needs about one hour w. heavy bass-massage to open up, before that it sounds like crap.
I`ve been doing this for decades, taking it all the way out through my system, including custom trafos, diy speakers & cables. No multicore in my system anymore. The result speaks for itself.
Did anyone mention sc powercables ;)
I use 8 gauge multi-stranded silver plated copper wire, teflon insulated. It came from an EBay source selling military and aircraft wiring. My speakers are bi-wired with this stuff and it sounds geat.
I don't much care for the PVC insulation on Nomex house wiring. The copper quality may not be crap, but the PVC insulation is.
Modern arc induction furnances are all oxygen free. There haven't been open arc furnaces used for decades now.
But, if you want to buy the label and mystic of dielectrics and the oxygen free label (you can say this if it is, and you DON'T have to say it if it is!) do this;
Buy Belden 1313A cable - 10 AWG stranded (259x34) high-conductivity bare copper conductors, PO insulation (this is the real good stuff). Strip the outer jacket off, its that terrible PVC!) and replace it with PE wire harness wrap. Crimp and solder Cardus spade lugs of your choice. Have a listen. It will cost you next to nothing to build a set one afternoon. Compare all those expensive cables to your darn near free reference before you buy.
I never parted with my bi-amp pair I made for my Quatro's. My frind still has them, too. They blew away his expensive cords.
I have tried military wire and it is awesome. I do own expensive specialty cables and the mil-spec wire is every bit as good for very little money. This is however, not just any military wire, but silver plated, twisted pair, braid shielded with the braid silver plated, and teflon wrapped. Lots of military wire is also tin coated and you don't want that. You need to examine the wire code: First look for ML27500 type wire. Second look at the next code lets take A16SB4S22 as an example: ignore the first letter, the next number (16) is the gauge of the wire- look for the lowest number you can find- 22, 18, 16, 12, 10, 8. next, you will see a one or two letter code- (SB) you can ignore this, next you will see a number (4)- this is the number of conductors- look for 2, 4 or 8, multiple conductors are better is better, next is the shielding type (S) S stands for silver, T or V for tin (Booo) look for an S, W, G, $ or K- all are types of silver shielding. The last two letters are the type of jacket. 06, 16, 26 are good. Confused yet? Ok- get double the amount you need, cut in half to make two cables. If you get 4 conductor, twist two conductors together to make your + and two for your - channel. (pair up the same two color stripes on each end- careful!) Do not use connectors, just put the wire directly onto the speakers and amp. Sit back in awe of the upgrade that cost you $30 of mil-spec wire on ebay.
I did a set once, kasa 12 guage from knuconceptz.com and added Audioquest P10M-S Spades. Out of pocket maybe $100 and I liked the setup. I was pumpin 250 watt speakers with a 180 watt amp, at 100 watt amp only need 16-14 awg for whats its worth but its the purity that counts. I'm sure several others pointed that out :)
Gauge 10 has resistance of 0.001ohm per foot making 10' typical cable (both ways) 20x0.001= 0.020ohm while at the same time inductor in series with the woofer is likely to have 0.1ohm "
- and what is the output imedanse of Your poweramp? Even high-ohm tube-amps performs way more dynamic & relaxed if they get some good thick solidcore. As thgick as the copper used to Connect the powercaps in Your amp, look and think..
Dynamic loss in speakercables+passive filters are the biggest loss in a hifi-system. No.2 is the loss through multicore powercables, or should I say slowstart-circuits?
Unfairlane, Tube amps present higher output impedance being power source vs voltage source that SS amps are. I was just trying to show that cable thickness is pretty much irrelevant because woofer choke has 5x higher resistance (not to mention impedance of the speaker itself that is mostly resistive). As for thick wires going to power supply caps - it is because current is charge is delivered to capacitors in very short current spikes of very high amplitude. This amplitude is much higher than any output current you'll ever see.
There might be another reason for using thick cables and it is inductance. Inductance of typical gauge 18 wire is in order of 350nH per foot while it is less than 300nH for gauge 10. It represents about 0.9 ohm of inductive reactance at 20kHz for 10' cable.