DIY cables are a joke. Not that a lot of guys haven't deluded themselves into believing the fantasy you just described. Which is pure fantasy. Because try and imagine, if it was true, everyone would notice and no one would pay $500 for a $50 wire. No one. Or look at it the other way, if DIY was so good people would be building $50 cables and selling them for $500. So its pure deluded fantasy any way you slice it. Not that its not a popular fantasy. Just one with not a shred of evidence or even common sense behind it.
DIY cables are so bad, such a total waste of time and money, I have yet to see one that preformed as good as what you could buy for less than they spent on the parts to make it. A friend with 30 years practice had his masterpiece blown away by an old $75 Synergistic pulled at random from my discarded cable drawer. I hope you are getting the message.
Do yourself a favor. Whatever amount you are thinking of spending on wire, just go buy whatever used Synergistic cable you can find. Or even less. Heck even half. No matter what. No matter how old. It will kill anything you could build. Crush. Embarrass. Destroy. Its said Nike had the most famous marketing slogan of all time: Just do it. I have an even better one for DIY cables: Don't.
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I do not employ banana plugs. But agree with your position in part, Some audiophiles are lazy and do not want to take the effort fora small DIY project.
I just made some DIY speaker cables with Home Depot 12 gague, and DIY power cords with 12 gague HD spool, both same wire.
I posted a vid here a few days ago showing each,,and will repost a new vid showing how to make the power cord.
I am very happy with this 12 gague power cord and speaker wires.
Now my interconnects , i just bought a 16 gague froma ebay seller for $45 includes ship.
They look real nice , I have to retest my DIY super high tech interconnects again just after i post this,
I spent on that pair
$100 terminals + $80 cables + $160 labor,,and at 1st listen I did not like them, The wire is super thick,,and looking at a side slice,,, = do not look worth the $15 a foot.
My $25 ebay specials sound superior .
At least at 1st ~~unbiased~~ listen, let me go fora double ck.
anyway, agree DIY is the wqay to go on speaker (no terminals just plain cut ends),,and DIY power cords are easy, takes about 1 hour,,plugs i bought pure copper for $20 a set from china..waiting now 2 months on the 3rd set of ends. CV19 has china shipping set back about 2-3 months. AS soon as they arrive i will make the DIY power cord YT vid.
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DIY cables are so bad, such a total waste of time and money
Now i agree, Interconnects are not easy to do,,and the right wire is essential.
As soon as my DIY Ebay purchase arrives,,maybe saturday,,I'll posta comment on some of my topics. They seem to be really nice for $45.
I bought the 16 gague,,His site offers lots of DIY wire if you care to make your own,,So seems to me he researched his products very carefully and = I trust he knows his business, Which i do not,, Now speaker cables,,no, I always make my own,,I am doinga shootout with 10 gague fine stranded vs 12 gague thick stranded,,,have both connected now,,and honestly forgot all about the shootout as i was more concerned about how the new Takman metal resistors sounded vs the carbon film.
The Takman were far superior to carbon Film. , So actually i really can not recall a dif,,but let me go back now,,and reck that shootout.
Regards
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MC has missed my point completely ... sigh .... I am not trying to compare DIY vs. commercial cables. I posted the vid to show that I suspect a lot of online audio cable companies basically are nothing more than DIY cable albeit a bit fancy in the appearance.
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MC, what do you do, when someone takes a cable apart and copies it?
Part for part. What do you call that cable? I call it the right channel speaker cable. I always make the left one first. You crack me up...
I'll add this to boot. I suppose hand made speakers are a joke too?
I'll keep posting my handmade stuff. I can say with a fair amount of confidence that YOUR speaker cables would NOT make my systems sound better. It takes a great speaker design, to sound great to begin with. Because I have built a lot of cabinets, and repaired a lot of the junk
I can say, once your in the heavyweight division, you'll understand.
Fancy cables ARE NOT required with great speakers, but they don't hurt, or do they? Look at top of the line JBLs. No fancy anything required, to sound good. 50 watts of a so so, whatever will work... Heck use your phone for a source and 200.00 worth of class d amps, and zip cord, Sound good. Better than you might think. WHY? GREAT speakers....Not great cables...
I've set up outside a couple time also.. I't a lot of fun, unfortunately these time make it prudent to use good judgment..No fancy cables there, pure copper with copper ends, pure silver with silver ends, great speakers, a lot of power...and the right back drop. Ampa Style.
Now to take care of the ol ticker, and talk to the rabbit.. Calm is the way
I say, I say..
Regards |
I posted the vid to show that I suspect a lot of online audio cable companies basically are nothing more than DIY cable albeit a bit fancy in the appearance.
Oh yes no doubt about it,,, commercial cabels are nothing more than ~~refined~~ DIY,, very well packaged and ~~marketed~~. (=$$$$).
WEll I am back.
Verdict:
a well made interconnect is not better than a expebisve interconnect, both will sound nearly identical,,and folks will havea hard time A/Bing the 2.
A poorly construct interconnect, like the one I had made , cost me over $300,,,turned out to be a ~~Failed Experiment~~~ (dang it, could have put that $350 towards my Cayin SC6),,:-((
A poor cable is a poor cable,
A good cable is a good cable.
The Ebay MADE IN CHINA no name brand, is my guess as good as the DIY cable i bought from a DIYer in Kansas,,but we will see, I could be wrong,,,but i doubt it... That will be the last ever pair of interconnects for me,,i have about 3 already,, 3 no name china brand (sound great) + 1 my tech guy gave me (sounds a bit less?? than the china noname brand, and then the $350 DIY which i may ship to the DIYer in kansas and get his opinion as to why the $350 cable turned out to be a failure. Has $125 set of pure copper huge terminals. That might be the issue. anyway, as to my 10 gague fine stranded speaker wire vs the 12 gague thick wire stranded,,,can not really tell them apart,,so one speaker will have the 10 gague fine and the other 12 gague thicker stranded,,maybe forever,, I may not ever change either, as a statement, = a a good speaker wire = another good speaker wire. as in physics
X=X and Y=Y.
Simple equation. No brainer.
a 50 ft spool of 12 gague cost me $15,,a 10 ft length of 10 gague finely stranded cost me $10, = no brainer go with the Home Depot spool, make your speaker and power cords all from one spool.
$15 bucks + power cord terminals, a pair for $20.
I have made 2 power cords,,the Jadis Defy gets a 7or 8 footer, as i have it running down the wall, along the side baseboard and makesa turn, then to the Defy,,out the way, not stretched at all.
Will posta DIY vid on that power cord mod once the plugs come in from china,,been 2 months now
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I can say with a fair amount of confidence that YOUR speaker cables would NOT make my systems sound better. It takes a great speaker design, to sound great to begin with
Excellent post.
Exactly,, My Thors will sound exactly the same with DIY 12,14 or even 20 gague,,well 20 ga might bea bit thin/cutting it close to getting the juice to drive the Thors,, But certainly commercial $$$$ speaker cables are not going to make the Thors sing any superior than my Home Depot 12 gague (50 feet /$15,,lol)
A high fidelity speaker does not request a expensive cable. Juice is juice, thats all she asks.
Now your 50 cent black power cord,,,,well actually a tech guy might come over and prove to me the huge Defy trans, perform just as well on the 50 cent black thin power cord as it does on my hefty beefy 12 gague DIY with solid copper terminals. But as i say,,i feel more confident with the hefty beefy power cord, that the trans are getting all the juice they could wish for with the 12 ga, vs your 50 cent PC which is,,cut one open,,you'll see, its like 20 ga, has about 10 hair thin copper strands,<<< trash it, make your own.>>> .
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I am not 100% on the side of DIY or commercial cables I am currently using both, I have Kimber on my front speakers, BJC on the surrounds, and home made on the Atmos. I've read a lot about commercial cables, some of the science behind cables, how a $3,000 dollar commercial cable makes absolutely no difference when compared to a DIY $20.00 cable and you wouldn't be able to hear any difference. I've heard the debates. I do not know to what extent it is all true, I have not done any side by side testing. Maybe you can get better sound quality with a commercial cable due to quality of components, manufacturing techniques, maybe it is not black and white and there are some good commercial cables and junk ones, maybe DIY are just as good I don't know and I am not debating that. What I know is that I bought my Kimber because; I love the braided look, they are base models, I bought them used, and they sound fine to me. Now BJC, do you know how they are terminated? They are ultrasonically-welded. This is what drew my attention when I came across them and why I decided to give them a try. Ultrasonically-welded at low temperatures, pretty cool. If your not familiar with the technology check it out;
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/ultrasonic-welding.htm
BTW something I like about BJC. American Cable, American Technology, American Assembly Something else I take into consideration with making my own cables is human error. I have been in IT for years and years and have terminated a ton of networking cable. When cost came down on manufactured already terminated networking cable I begin using it for a lot of applications. Buy the length I need, run it, plug it in, verify it is transferring at the right bandwidth, no fuss no muss. Sure I can terminate a cable, test it to make sure it is good but now that the cost is so low and I can't manipulate and terminate cable like I used to with my hands, due to issues. Speaker cable, what if I miss a strand or two when putting a end on and create a grounding issue? For the cost, peace of mind, and not having to kill my hands, I'm fine with commercial. |
I disagree with DIY cables not sounding good.
I have made many, the latest power cord version I made is with pure 10 gauge .9999 solid silver covered with a very high quality Teflon. I braided the 3 conductors lightly and terminated them with Furutech NCF fittings. On the wires themselves I coated them first with Furutech Nano liquid before connecting them into the connectors.
Took a little bit of time to break in, but compared to SR, Purist, Hurricane etc. These are much superior sounding.
So, I say the conductors and connectors are the main ingredient.
ozzy
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I have made many, the latest power cord version I made is with pure 10 gauge .9999 solid silver covered with a very high quality Teflon. I braided the 3 conductors lightly and terminated them with Furutech NCF fittings
Now THAT is a expensive power cord.
Buy why pure silver?? and Furutech NCF adds more to the cost.
But why?
Copper carries 110 volts just as effectively/cleanly as copper.
Here is my version of a copper power cord
Home Depot 12 gague THHN strand + pure copper termianls from china @ $20 for a pair.
I 've made 2 cords, one for the Defy , the other for the cayin 17 mark1 220 volt, plugs into stepup trans.
Both really nice, ugly, but highly functional.
When the 3rd terms arrive from china,,going on 2 months ship,,,I will uploada Vid on the DIY of the cord.
You have to break off the clear plastic face plate to get it to work out.
Silver is not going to carry more juice, nor cleaner juice, vs copper 12 ga. |
I'm not sure if the OP meant to criticize all DIY cables or those "cable companies" that are being disingenuous about their added value.
I completely agree that cable companies that use readily available bulk cable, add some connectors and some woven polyester sleeving, and then charge 5 or 10 times the retail cost of the components while pretending that they have some unique technology are pretty sleazy.
I don't think this necessarily results in a bad cable - there is some excellent bulk cable made by companies like Furutech, Neotech, DH Labs, Mogami, Kimber, Canare, Belden and others, that offer good to excellent performance. But a DIYer can use the same bulk cable with good quality connectors and achieve the same results (assuming they know what they are doing wrt prepping and terminating) for a fraction of the cost.
I have no problem with companies, such as Blue Jean Cable, that disclose the fact they are using one of these products, and that charge a fair price for the excellent job they do with termination.
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As far as I know there are only two companies that make wire. You can twist them, bend then, wrap them, etc. in many ways. My close friend did the first speaker wire a month ago and we compared it versus his Acoustic Zen bi-wires, no difference in sound. So while there are many cable manufacturers out there as well as manufacturers of audio components, difference come from the design. So you have to hear things for yourself and make up your own mid. Look at all of the opinions on DACs, preamps and amplifiers. Unless you know what makes one design sound better than the other, you will keep spinning your wheels.
Happy Listening. |
Well of course one can make outstanding DIY cables with the high quality of today’s DIY products. To argue otherwise is just plain incorrect. DIY is one area in Audio that is growing and doing well. Lots of innovation going on in this space. Great parts have been developed and are now available to the DIY community. Yes, the Helix cable link is a great example. The wonderful conductors sold by Duelund combined with KLEI RCA plugs/bananas or Vampire XLR’s is yet another great example. As long as the builder is reasonably skilled/some experience then the outcome can certainly as good or better than “branded” cables selling for $100-$4000.
I also build USB cables that me and my customers know sonically surpass the big brands selling for up to $1100. We have done the listening tests. Too busy with other responsibilities right now to build cables for Agoners right now, but I have sold many. I was not manufacturing or designing my own conductors, rather I develop recipes through testing, building and fine tuning with conductors and parts readily available to all of us.
Seems this is a blind spot for MillerCarbon as he keeps typing this false narrative. He often offers good advice, but seems a bad experience or two has narrowed his view on this topic. Too bad really as this is one area where Aphiles can save big money, learn, and enjoy the process of building cables with their own hands. Very rewarding. |
DIY cables are a joke. Not that a lot of guys haven't deluded themselves into believing the fantasy you just...
you are a joke... |
DIY cables are so bad, such a total waste of time and money ..
reading this crap is waste of time.. |
mozartfan.
Because the higher the grade of the conductor the more low level information is available. I have tried various forms of copper, don't kid yourself it all matters. If you want the best.
I probably have about $500 total into my DIY pure silver power cord, but it out performs the mega dollar power cords I have compared it to. And, it is powering my Niagara 7000 which most of my equipment is plugged into.
ozzy
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two left handed individuals with yapping syndrome making absolute statements about the stuff they wish they could themselves.....ie. had one left+one right hand... |
Morrow cables at 45% off (current sale) is a great deal for made in USA cables. Got a pair of speaker cables and 2 sets of xlr interconnects for $500. |
All huffing and puffing, posturing etc. duly noted, what still remains true is this; any given cable may be superior to any other, and only comparison will tell.
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Listen to the cables. They do sound different. The problem is there are so many and you can’t test them side by side. So you read reviews and take a stab in the dark. You might do that 3 or 12 times. And you still wonder if there’s a better alternative. |
millercarbon... i have to agree with your assessment. No matter how you dice it & slice it, No Way it can compete with manufactured cables. It’s just a waste of time and mostly waste of money! I have been an audiophile for 35+ years, never have i encountered any diy cables that i want to hear for more than 15minutes. It does sounds different; has all the attributes ( high, mids, bass) but the end results to me not as musical. In a blind test ( comparing a diy and branded cables) no doubt that the diy just doesn’t have the musicality ( the soul and heart). |
Oh dear, another cable thread. For goodness sake, look up the eons of threads and posts to see what conversations have been offered in the past.
We don’t need another reiteration of the same ole stuff.
It seems that thread posters are lazy sods that are inept in looking up history for them selves.
Use some of your own brains first before wasting everyone’s time (except those who can’t help themselves). 🇦🇺
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Hi,
you cannot ignore bulk offerings from Acoustic Revive, Acrolink, Furutech, Oyaide, Neoteh...In their price range they will outperform any ready made cable especially in powercords. Fun to make properly, most rewarding and excellent value even though many of them surpass the four figure cost with the right plugs. Glad i did pc diying for my pre/phono/sacd with Furutech and Acoustic Revive for poweramp and believe me they have enough soul and heart and brain. No experience with speaker or ic but it would not surprise me if they behave well the same as powercords. |
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