To many threads take a rest DUDE!!!!!
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It wasn't until decades after I began playing instruments, setting up/tuning/treating venues and running sound for bands, that I put together my first serious home system. Listening to each voice/feed, separately and being certain their presence was clean, clear and balanced with the whole, was always a necessity when at the console. Just how I learned to listen, for accuracy, tonality and overall balance in a mix, etc. When I had my shoppe, my customers were always grateful, when (if needed) I'd point out how to discern those attributes in a high-resolution system. At least; they acted happy, at receiving a bit of education. So many people have been/are happy to use, "ain't" and, "irregardless" in their versions of the English language; they're both now in the dictionary. Only my perspective, of course. Happy listening!
I wouldn’t say that discernment is bad, but fixating on every imperfection is certainly not good. When I appreciate a fantastic Mahler recording by Bernstein or Solti or Boulez, and notice the small details that turn those recordings from being good into being some of the all-time greats, I am using discernment.
To use an analogy, a person wanting to learn to play an instrument initially doesn’t know that they sound bad. A good teacher would explain to them how they can improve, but it a helpful way. Then the student notices their mistakes, learns to correct them, and is ultimately happier than they were at first.
I’m glad for the help I got with listening in a more discerning way; I see your point, Erik, that it can lead down a slippery slope to loss of enjoyment and a "flow" of experience in the movie, song, etc. itself. But that slippery slope was not a big danger, for me. How dangerous is it?
Without some lessons in discernment, I would not be listening at the level I am today. The reason it’s not lead to audiophilia nervosa is because that’s not something I’m inclined towards, I guess. But I’m glad no one protected me (from myself) by *assuming* I’d have that problem, because then they’d never have taught me to listen better, deeper.
So, the ability to judge well is bad,
the conscious knowledge of one's own character, feelings, motives and desires are good.
They're both good qualities to have.
There seems to be some confusion between the two since you're ascribing the motive part with the judging part and I do not think that's correct. There's some conflating of the two attributes going on.
Maybe, you're being too critical of yourself in the area of being a perfectionist in your old job and parlaying that as a character flaw in the way you approach audio.
I'd look at it as a great skill that should be operating in the background like second nature and just go with it.
All the best,
maghister & fuzztone:
Much cooler than my (crappy) pizza take on the OP's statement/query.
It's just me entertaining myself, cuz no-one else will (aside from MillerCarbon and Kenjit -w- a special SHOUT-OUT to Geoffrey Kait who I actually like/enjoy even though he prefers Canoe to English Leather).
Erik is also OK (in my book) and I hope that his seemingly desired "Escape From LA" is successful.
There is a critical part about knowledge and sharing it.
If, someone asks for your thoughts, well, then they should be freely given what you know which is relevant to the question asked.
It's the "Really, you like that? Because it would be better if you did this..." kinda unsolicited advice that can be, demeaning and negative.
Wednesday 12:15 PM I was listening to Roxy Music's Country Life (EG Editions CD) on my cheap ($26 used) JVC 310 DVD player! Sounded quite fine! My Marantz CD67 recently died - needs new laser mechanism. And I am just now reading Eric's post! Talk about coincidence! What too many in this hobby forget: it's all about the music!
You make a good point Erik. You're never going to be able to get the best of everything anyway, so why worry overmuch about it? Do the best you can and enjoy what you have, and have accomplished.
And it's a little off your point, but the things you do enjoy, do more of them, even when it's more sensible to do otherwise. For instance should you have a well rounded record collection or should you go overboard on a few artists you really like? There are folks on this site who've hundreds of albums of a single artist, be it Bach or Zappa. My hat's off to them for concentrating on the things they clearly enjoy.
eric, I get your well explained perspective. You can't help a pig discern a silk dome tweeter, as you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. 🐷
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I would never ever want to look down at another person like this, unless they fail to vote like I do in which case their moral and personal failures are self-evident.
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To discern is to be able to tell the difference. If its bad to discern, that's saying its bad to make any judgments whatsoever. Everything is just all the same.
And yet at the same time self-awareness is good. But self-awareness is nothing more than the ability to discern the difference between yourself and your experiences. You can't even have self-awareness without being able to discern this difference. It is its very definition.
That you say one is good while the other is bad, without having either the self-awareness or the discernment to realize how inextricably bound together they are, explains much.
Healing is a process, not a destination. :)
But here are some tricks:
1 - Avoid "revealing gear" and focus on neutral and laid back.
2 - Good room acoustics.
3 - DIY cables from pure silver.
4 - DIY my own speakers
5 - Recognize what I like in a system, which is more to do with transparency in acoustics than hearing every spec of dust that settles on a fret.
6 - Completely given up on the idea that cost = performance.
7 - Been honest about how I listen to music. We too often buy gear like sports cars. OK, you just bought a Mercedes F1 racer. 99% of the time you are commuting to work, so.... where are the damn cup holders?? I listen out of room 80 % of the time, I do a lot of movie watching too.
8 - The loss of actual 35mm/70mm film has had the side benefit to me that no dust or scratches appear in the frames! Yeay. Still see lamp issues when going out to theaters though.
9 - Learned to love tone controls. It helps to find gear with better quality controls which are more transparent and do only what they were meant to do.
The DIY part let me both tweak to my hearts content, as well as have enough pride of ownership that the need to upgrade disappeared.
TBC: Any famous badge would charge the dealer 2x their purchase cost for any components besides drivers.
That would then be increased for the 45% dealer markup.
Why on earth should Fritz do less? He’s already offering you a huge bargain with great speakers, and .... you want him to create an even bigger value before you are satisfied with it?
OH, and one big thing:
Listen to live music with your eyes closed.
Pay attention to the detail you hear, especially "imaging."
I think when we try to recreate these experiences in our home we become obsessed with this idea of imaging which is not real. We try to make up for the lack of visual information.
Kind of like Kurosawa would add extra smoke to a volcano because film did not capture the heat of the location well enough.