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Disappointed w/ Klipsch Heresy III. Now what?

I'd be very grateful for some help with a quandary.

I recently replaced my Ohm Walsh 1000 speakers with Heresy III speakers, running two-channel from a Rega Brio. I was pretty excited about the Heresy IIIs based on reviews — they were efficient, so my 35-watt amp would get the job done; they were supposed to have real punch in the low mid-range, so I could hear the upright bass clearly; they reportedly had excellent imaging; and best of all, they were supposed to sound great at low volumes. They are also indisputably beautiful, which was an important factor for my wife. (The Ohms are elegant, but you have to be an audio lover to see their beauty.)

I set them up, and . . . not so bad, pretty good. Especially loud. In fact the louder the better. Crank them up and they sing. But loud is not really an option with a new baby. So how do they sound quiet? They sound like the band is trapped in shoe box. Really in two shoe boxes because the L and R don't merge that well. The sound stage is tiny. All the detail is gone, the joy is gone. They are no fun at all. Music just seems like a bunch of noise.

But I want to believe! I want to make these speakers work. So I am faced with a quandary. I could:

1. Buy stands, a subwoofer and a tube amp, all of which people in various forums have recommended to improve the various failings I hear now.

2. Replace the Rega with something much more powerful and pull the Ohms out of the closet. (Suboptimal because it will make my wife sad because of the aforementioned perceived ugliness.)

3. Just start all over again. Different amp, different speakers.

I'd kind of prefer number 1. But I don't want to end up with a bunch of stuff designed to solve a problem and then not have that problem solved! (And I'd also just as soon avoid getting a subwoofer.)

Final note. Positioning is an intractable nightmare. It is the one thing that I can't really change, because of how our living room is layed out. It is obviously a big problem though. The living room is a big rectangle, 18 x 40 feet, and the speakers are near the corners of the 18-foot ends, on either side of a couch. I can move them around — closer or further from the couch, closer or further from the wall. But I can't raise them above the height of the couch or move them out in front or over to another wall. That discussion went nowhere!

What should I do?

 



brooklynluke

Showing 17 responses by wolf_garcia

wolf_garcia
6,595 posts
 
Modern horn loaded drivers have "phase plugs" that mostly obviate the "narrow dispersion window" issues of older horn designs, so don't let that worry you…if anything you might have a bit less room reflection from horns.
wolf_garcia
6,595 posts
 
I recently heard a pair of Heresys at a shop and thought they sounded great but did pull them away from the corners. I don't need no corners! I own a couple of REL subs so the upper bass reinforcement provided by corner placement isn't needed. I'd have to try these things in my room before replacing what I'm using and luckily the dealer allows the demos (broken-in) to be taken home for that purpose. 

wolf_garcia
6,595 posts
 
With my listening room I'd have to build a set of moveable corners…The Heresy IIIs I listened to recently were powered by a cool little SS Luxman M-200 25 watt per side (did not know that amp existed, but then I don't get out much) amp that sounded great, and that amp has a display that will show you how many watts it's using. Cool indeed. I think it hit maybe 3 or 4 watts.
wolf_garcia
6,595 posts
 
Volume not to be confused with db? Hmmm…I'm a professional live sound engineer so I actually know some things (and I'm not very smart so there's plenty I don't know)...also, I use 2 REL subs in a 20X30 ft room with 91DB rated main speakers and a 12 watt per side single ended tube amp, and it can go to room filling loudness at levels that are too loud for my listening "sweet spot" unless I'm very drunk…in which case it just doesn't matter anyway…but Heresy IIIs will fill a largish room easily with very little wattage, only limited to the previously noted low frequency range easily remedied with one or two possibly used (like mine) subs…my RELs, a Q108eMK2 (100 watts, 8") and a Q150e (150 watt 10") cost around 200 bucks each and are amazing sounding.
wolf_garcia
6,595 posts
 
Now that my new Heresy IIIs have settled in I can say they’re nothing short of amazing in my 20 X 30 foot slant (tall) ceilinged room. I tried ’em on stands for a while and although I have 2 excellent REL subs, I put them back on the floor with their little slant risers as somehow they seem to thrive that way…they’re on 1.5" butcher blocks decoupled with Vibrapods (don’t want my wood floors intruding on anything, so the "pods" are directly under the speakers and the butcher blocks just have small feet which makes the whole thing easier to move for position tweaking). Interestingly (or not…I’m never sure) the Heresy cabinet is one of the most inert I’ve used…put your hand on the cabinet side when some bass is pumping through them and note zero vibration, which says to me they’re very solid, or the bass is anemic…maybe both…but the RELs more than make up for any low frequency issues although it took a while to readjust them as less power gets to them now. My little single ended "Fire Bottle" amp is sending so much less wattage to the Heresys than with my previous speakers, and different frequency adjustments for the subs needed attention…no biggie and hat’s off to efficiency, which was my main objective in buying these speakers in the first place. I think efficiency translates into "instantaneous dynamic tone bursts" with any amp, but that could be my fertile imagination at work. I do agree with others who state the obvious that "better in means better out," as these speakers don’t disguise an "iffy" amp or cables, and they have a sweet and direct coherency that I’m enjoying. When I feel any recording lacks highs or lows, or Fletcher Munson is in da house (late night…you know), I dial in my Schiit Loki and those speakers respond like the thing was designed for them. Get a Loki…they’re cheap although unbalanced, not unlike myself.
wolf_garcia
6,595 posts
 
I now read any speaker review with a point of view tainted by my enjoyment of a low powered single ended tube amp, as only efficient speakers really work well with it (unless it's used in a desktop rig maybe). No LS50 for me (I do think they're way cool though), although elsewhere in my house I use my beloved KEF Q10s I've had forever….GREAT speaker! The good news regarding efficient speakers is you can save bucks by buying lower powered versions of cool amps…Pass just came out with their least expensive amp, a Class A 25 watter that seems like a good thing, or great small tube amps…I auditioned the Heresy IIIs with a Luxman M200, a very cool little 25 watt SS amp with an interesting wattage display (made it to almost 3 watts when I was listening to it). 
wolf_garcia
6,595 posts
 
The new Forte III supposedly has a groovy new midrange driver/horn that people seem to like, but they're just too damn big for my tastes and I have 2 subs so the extra bass energy isn't necessary from the main speakers. One reason I wanted to try Heresys is the esthetics involved…they're smallish and less obtrusive than "tower" speakers and still toss a nice soundstage in front of me.

wolf_garcia
6,595 posts
 
Ohm speakers seem interesting but none seem to be high efficiency unless I missed something (entirely possible, if not utterly likely).
wolf_garcia
6,595 posts
 
I might have said this before but I don't think the Heresy IIIs "sound" like horns really, but maybe that's just me (I use horn loaded speakers in my studio, pro mixing gigs, and have owned a lot of speakers including Altec A7s years ago…now that's horny!). I've been experimenting with placement a little, and ongoing sub integration tweaking. I read something Paul McGowan said about speaker placement where he suggested putting the speakers further apart from each other to tame possible upper bass issues, and that inspired me to do exactly that. Moved 'em about 8 inches further out and they sound simply better. Thanks Paul.
wolf_garcia
6,595 posts
 
Having a couch in your soundstage could be relaxing…having a cow in your soundstage could be disturbing. Everyone should know these things.
wolf_garcia
6,595 posts
 
The Heresy IIIs I bought are still available on Ebay for about 1500 bucks by the way (well, not MINE as I refuse to give them up…but the Nevada dude still sells the "damaged box" free shipping ones and seems to offer the best deal out there)…and mine have simply settled in nicely… around 7 feet apart and 9 feet from my earballs. I put Vibrapods under their corners and removed the butcher blocks that raised them a few inches to return them to the original "sit on the floor" design, and put thick felt "stick on" pads under the vibrapods to allow them to be micro tweaked regarding placement (sliding them around on the wood floor). Decoupled! They respond to every tube change and 2 inch movement, and have turned out to be outstanding speakers that continue to astound me. Maybe I’m easily astounded, but with some minor movement and tweaking to my 2 REL subs, my rig has never sounded better. Note that for "low volume" listening (a relative term) these things pair nicely with a Schiit Loki EQ gizmo, but otherwise respond to the dreaded Fletcher Munson curve better than some…still…ya gotta hit that curve! Also, most of this post is specifically designed to get Mapman off the dime.
wolf_garcia
6,595 posts
 
Who said this is fun? It's serious business man...
wolf_garcia
6,595 posts
 
I've used various horn speakers for decades and maybe they do sound bright if you use crap to drive them, but otherwise that's simply not true. I dragged Altec A7s around years ago and those things are anything but bright…the horn in those is basically a mid-high thing. Something like the Clair Brothers JBL boxes that were around years ago could peel paint with brightness, but I think that was the sound mixer's (or a Phase Linear amp's) fault, as is excessive brightness from phased array systems  these days. I currently use PA speakers with titanium driven horns (both small-ish Mackies in my home recording rig and generally larger self powered stuff when mixing live shows) that sound like whatever I want them to, and Heresy IIIs, especially once broken-in, aren't overly bright but actually clear sounding when paired with high quality gear…I use a single ended 12 watt per side tube power amp and a tube preamp with the Heresy IIIs (and 2 REL subs…you kinda need a sub with Heresy IIIs) and they sound clean as a whistle, and if I put my Schiit Loki EQ in the mix (rare, but it works swimmingly when needed) you can see exactly how they work. Although it seems like a lame cliche', the Heresy IIIs sound kind of like live music, which is the highest compliment I can pay to a speaker design.
wolf_garcia
6,595 posts
 
I think any great speaker (including the Heresy III), especially efficient ones, respond to the "first watt" principle where the quality of the amp is immediately apparent. I happen to like tube stuff, but there are countless well designed and voiced SS amps that are great sounding. Note that horns like the Heresy III versions utilize modern and relatively common titanium drivers in both the tweeter and mid horn, and they're simply rendered more efficient by horn loading. Nothing exotic or even "special" going on there.
wolf_garcia
6,595 posts
 
Nice review of Heresy IIIs in the June Stereophile.
wolf_garcia
6,595 posts
 
The above mentioned Heresy III reviews from Olsher and Tone Audio are among the few detailed reviews around, along with Steve Huff (relatively recent review) really going at it as the dude loves these things...I have said before how surprised I was with these as they’ve never been on my radar, and, of course, my success with them could partly be due to the tubey rig I use these days. Who knew?
wolf_garcia
6,595 posts
 
I think growing some sort of moss in the midrange horn should work...thick mold also does the job...doll house furnishings tiny shag carpets...dryer lint...
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