Dielectrics and such...??

Hi Kijanki,

I suspect that you are basing those calculations on typical numbers for two conductors that are not twisted. See the link in my previous post, though, which shows a photo and the specs of the specific cable. And note that the inductance number is for 2.5 meters.

So due to the braided and twisted construction of the cable, it appears that the inductance is only about 87 nH per foot-run, for a single cable. A double-shotgun configuration (four two-conductor cables in parallel for each speaker) would reduce that to about 22 nH per foot-run, which of course is extremely low.

Best regards,
-- Al

So what else is there (other than resistance, inductance or dielectric) to consider?

Nothing else that I can think of, beyond what we've already said. I don't think that dielectric absorption will be an issue. The electric field between adjacent paralleled cables will be minimal, partly because of the one-inch distance, and partly because of the cancellation resulting from the twisted and braided construction of the two conductors in each of the four paralleled cables. Also, depending on which of the two physical configurations I asked about is used, the dielectric between paralleled cables may be mostly air, which as I understand it has essentially no susceptibility to dielectric absorption.

Total capacitance (between + and -) for a 2.5 meter run (about 8.2 feet) would be 1448 pf, somewhat on the high side but I suspect still low enough to not have audible consequences with the great majority of amplifiers.

Best regards,
-- Al

04-04-12: Jbuenech
I have Kimber 3033 and tried to protect them from dust by wrapping them up in a thin plastic sheet, those used to keep food in the fridge. Result was a huge change in sound for the worst.

I suppose the reason for that might have been static electricity on the plastic sheet, which is a possible issue that I hadn't thought of when I composed my previous responses. Not sure how or if it may be possible to quantify or predict that risk.

Ben, Digikey has a selection of tapes having anti-static properties, which it would probably be a good idea to look through. Under "tape type" select one of the three anti-static entries, and then click "apply filters."

Best regards,
-- Al

Hi Ben,

I'm not sure if you are saying that the four cables would be laid out between two parallel strips of wide tape, so that most of what is between adjacent cables is air, or if the tape would be very thickly wound around each cable, so that most of what is between them is tape.

In either case, though, I don't think that the dielectric properties of the tape would have much if any relevance. Although of course I would be more certain of that in the first of those two situations.

Given that each of the cables has its + and - conductors closely and extensively intertwined, and considering the one inch spacing between cables, I would expect any interaction between adjacent cables to be insignificant compared to what occurs between the intertwined conductors, and the dielectric effects of their individual insulation.

So I would expect the net effects of what you are proposing to simply be a factor of 4 reduction of the resistance and inductance that is specified for an individual cable, and an increase in the specified capacitance by a factor of 4. None of those changes strike me as unreasonable in any way, with this particular cable, but your guess is as good as mine as to what the resulting sonic effects will be.

P.S: Just saw Kijanki's response. Although the four cables would pick up noise unequally, wouldn't the noise picked up by any one of them be cancelled just as well as if it were the only cable that was present?

Best regards,
-- Al

04-05-12: 2chnlben
I want to use each "braided pair" (one complete run of the 4tc) per speaker terminal (2 runs - one to each of the top/bottom positives, and 2 runs - one to each of the top/bottom negatives).

Hi Ben,

Thanks very much for the nice words.

What you are describing is not what I was interpreting your original post to mean. And I wouldn't recommend doing what you are now describing. If you use all of the conduction paths within a single cable to carry just one polarity of the signal (+ or -), you are essentially redesigning the cable to have very different characteristics than what it was designed to provide. Inductance will increase considerably. Also, the effect that Kijanki described about noise being picked up and entering the feedback loop of the amplifier, if it has one, becomes a significantly greater possibility. Capacitance will be reduced, but capacitance is relatively unimportant for a speaker cable as long as it is not extremely high. Twisting with another cable carrying the opposite polarity will reduce the magnitude of the increase in inductance, and the likelihood of noise-related issues, but just somewhat.

Best regards,
-- Al

04-05-12: 2chnlben
How then would you suggest I utilize my Kimber wire. I have plenty of it to work with. The 4tc does not provide a lot of copper (gauge). I want to increase the amount of copper (gauge) and thus my desire to use four sets per speaker.

Would I need to take two runs of the 4tc and twist them together...then at the ends, separate and combine the negative wires and the positive wires from the two runs. Repeating this procedure for both the top and bottom sets of the speaker's binding posts...?

Sounds like a (good) plan!

Best regards,
-- Al