Devore or Audio Note or other sensitive speakers: wanting to listen in Denver

Someone on this thread in Denver with Devore's reached out to me for listening and I cannot find your name! Please DM me? I'm still interested in coming to hear these speakers. Thank you!

P.S. You were selling a Jay's Audio DAC, I believe.

@chrisoshea Yes, I did. Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers (RAAL) tweeter. They work very well with tube and with my Pass XA 25. They are not likely my endgame speakers but are really excellent. I hope to write up a commentary about them sometime soon.

Here they are:

What you really want is a high sensitivity speaker with 16 ohms and of course Field Coils if you can raise the budget higher.

I use Atma-Sphere OTL Amplifiers called the Nirvana, these are not posted on Atma-Sphere sites but can be custom built on order. It pushes i believe about 140 watts on the 16 ohms 100db Field Coil Speakers.

In the past few years my upgrade bug has been totally cured :-) i never think about changing speakers or wandering what others may sound like or what am i missing. Its been a long 28 year journey with lots of headache buying and selling speakers and amplifiers. Finally for myself in my treated room i can finally just focus on collecting and buying music instead of electronics.

Agree on that Classic series.  The cabinets alone are amazing.  Field coil is very interesting as well.

I haven’t heard Cessaros but have always wanted to do so.  Maybe if someone has some in the Denver area, you’d be kind enough to invite Hilde and I over for a listen 😀.

@phantom_av Thanks for the suggestion. The classic series looks great. Maybe I can find someone in my area that can give me a listen.

Line Magnetic comes to mind if your budget is on the lower end of the scale, otherwise the Classic Audio Loudspeakers (Field Coil) Versions are highly recommended.

@jjss49 Well said. And of course, my buddy with a modest boat paid $40k for the boat and just had to replace a trawling motor for $4k. He gets to use it maybe 1/2 the year, or maybe a bit more. Audio is there all year long. 

And the points about the room are so key, too. Thing about good gear -- as you've said many times -- is if you buy good stuff used, well, then on resell it turns out to be a pretty inexpensive hobby compared to other hobbies. Can't sell used skis like you can sell a used Pass amp.

@hilde45

sometimes friends come over say, man how much $ do you have invested in your hifi equipment? my answer is always, yes, some, i am definitely into this... but it pales in comparison to the house and room built around it, to have the gear sound really good 

i say this in relation to the sub-topic of getting such amazing performance out of horn speakers... as vilip says in the video... well altec voice of the theaters are actually modestly priced, only 2 grand for a decent set... ahhh but the room you need to enjoy them in... hmmmmm, 50-100x that???

If I find my way into investment banking or black market antique smuggling, I'll have the cash for those Cessaros. I assume that horns can sound great even without the NYC-Uberrich pricetags. Thanks @jjss49 for the links. I'll take a listen. Hopefully, I can get to hear some horn speakers in my area if our audio club ever gets out of lock-down!

I've had the good fortune to hear audio systems set up by Jeff Catalano (High Water Sound) probably 5 or 6 times at various audio shows. In each instance the sound quality was consistent in its excellence and very natural presentation (Natural being the key signature). Usually the speakers were Cessaro horns or Horning speakers. Electronics either Tron audio or New Audio Frontiers.  Which ever combination of the brands chosen to demostrate,  same result of beautiful natural music reproduction. Jeff has an excellent ear.

Charles 

@jjss49 The room was large, larger than I would prefer, roughly 30X50 I think. The amps and pre were New Audio Frontiers, 211 monos. Sources were digital and vinyl, not sure of the name. What struck me is that the sound was so good, so effortless that I didn’t evaluate the typical characteristics. This is going to sound weird but the experience was similar to a dream in that in thinking back I can’t very clearly answer details about the sound like I usually can. I would describe the time listening to them as restful, which I haven’t ever used as a descriptor before. I’d really have to put them through the paces with my favorite music before spending that kind of money, but I could gladly live with what I heard. FWIW I’ve heard the big names over the years. Worth a listen.

get you started 😂

suggest they be watched in this sequence, will cover most the bases i think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfFsDcZxRr4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSJ8Z-e1oS0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdHbP1-Avqc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlUe63VyxK8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQsDNj4Gstk&t=70s

@jjss49  Awaken the beast? On this nice thread? No!

The question comes from a place of naiveté. The proposals of some of these lovely horn speakers seem like a very interesting alternative, given the OP's parameters.

As many would agree, there is no perfect speaker. So, if one gives up a certain kind of speaker for another kind, they have either found the perfect speaker (congrats) or they made a trade off for some benefit. 

So, assuming that the trade for a horn was from a speaker already well matched, power-wise with their amp, what did the horn get them? Was there a room synergy that is now possible? Is there something else they accomplished? 

And -- for those who lost something with the horn and are willing to discuss it -- what did they give up? And why is the horn better despite the new (more minor) deficiencies?

uh oh dave, you are awakening the beast... 🤣😂

What do folks like with horns that others weren’t doing? What do horns do less well?

@bjesien 

nice post

tell more about the room, amplification, source...  😁

I'll just throw out another favorite that I heard recently, the Cessaro horn speakers. I've always used the term effortless, but these speakers redefined that term for me. My logical self melted away and I wasn't listening to frequencies or extension or stage, just awesome music. They were out of budget but I didn't care about that either. Dream speaker for me. 

Maybe he also adds these to the equation. I own the big brothers and are a match in heaven for my SET.

UnoXD

The specifications speak for themselves: Unique 18 Ohm high-impedance voice coil design, combined with a breathtaking efficiency of 107 dB. Possibly some of the best specifications world-wide for a series production loudspeaker.

• 107 dB efficiency
• 18 Ohm drivers with double-ferrite magnets
• 500 mm spherical midrange horn
• CDC system w/o passive filter
• 100 V CPC crossover design
• subwoofer with DSP control
• 2 x 10 inch bass drivers
• 1000 W bass amplifier

Zero 1 Xd

• 3-way active system
• 500 W Class-D + 2 x 50 Watt Class A/AB
• FPGA-based FIR filter programming
• 5 digital + 1 analog input
• Remote control for input and volume
• 104 dB efficiency midrange and tweeter
• 130 mm spherical tweeter horn
• 400 mm spherical midrange horn
• 12 inch bass driver

@markhh2  Thank you! I appreciate your reply.

Not in Denver, but I can say that the Audio Note AN E’s are a great match with quicksilver mid monos. The amps really came alive when I added an LTA MZ2 preamp last month. However. I’ve been running the LTA straight into the Audio Notes for the past week and the sound is really special. And that’s with the stock new production tubes. Tube rolling starts soon!  

Just discovered this website: 

I see competitors with Omega, Devore, Spatial, Klipsch, Maggies, and more.

Horns, planars, concentrics, more. Take a look.

@b_limo I know what you mean about hearing systems. I heard a couple of really great speakers (including the Spatials) powered with simple tube amps and the combination had everything -- the full balanced tonality, nimbleness of movement in dynamics, clear and light high end, fully articulated soundstage, and quick but full bass. I have not heard solid state with harder to drive speakers do all that, yet. I will try this direction, first, especially as I have good subs and a recently upgraded tube amp.

I was going down that road this past summer too Hilde.  I decided to go the other direction and just get a beefy solid state that will push any speakers but I totally get the appeal with tubes, its just that I run into the same issues as you.

The Devores and Spatials definitely look appealing!  I’m in love with these little Maggie LRS’s so I’d go for the Spatials personally.

You’re ear is improving though in that you are picking up on speed / shrillness.  Its always good to hear as many other peoples setups as possible.  A few peoples systems completely changed my outlook on what is possible.

I have heard a ton of systems but have spent very little to no time with high efficiency speakers.  

Thanks so much. I’ve been studying the impedance curve aspect, too, since I tried out Focal 936 (based on nominal sensitivity) and it was a flop (due to impedance curve).
 

Wish Salk released such data but they said they get reports of their speakers but don’t keep them nor make them public. Shame, because that’s really a data point I’d love to have.

@bjesien 

mud also recommend learning a little about impedance curves. These curves are much more important than a sensitivity rating if a speaker. Also realize that is no real standard in which the speaker industry measures

Good point's! There's so much focus on speaker  sensitivity levels (With little clarity on how they are derived) . It's really the impedance load and curve pattern that determines how hard the amplifier must work. Sensitivity  will influence how loud a speaker can go for a given amount of applied wattage. 

Both parameters are useful to know but it seems speaker impedance and its impact is under appreciated. 

I think it’s important to discover the kind of presentation you are looking for. In my experience wide baffle speakers throw a very different presentation than narrow tower style speakers. Obviously horns give a different presentation than others with their own strengths and weaknesses. You will likely hear something you love and if it strikes you in the right way, the compromises will cease to exist. 
mud also recommend learning a little about impedance curves. These curves are much more important than a sensitivity rating if a speaker. Also realize that is no real standard in which the speaker industry measures- it’s expensive enough so many manufacturers don’t and methodologies amongst the professionals make it difficult to compare apples and apples.

Some great options above! Enjoy!

@b_limo These would be coming into competition with the Salks. The Salks are clearly underpowered by (a) my QS Mono 60 tube amps and (b) my Pass XA 25. In addition, when I have powered them with more wattage — Van Alstine SET 400 and/or MiniGan5, they get the speed they need but sound shrill — and this is with a tube line stage and plenty of room treatments. I really think it's the Be tweeter, but in addition, it's the lack of power. Perhaps what I really need is a Pass XA 150, but I have decided that I really like the lower power amps with more sensitive speakers. I thought these were 90db but they're actually 87 and if you look at their graphs, they dip down to 83 and 85 db at crucial points in the spectrum. So, they need competition to work with my amps, which I'm keeping.

Hi Hilde!  Are these supplementing the Salks or replacing?  If supplementing, then maybe go a different sound than the salks.  The Spatials look very interesting to me personally.  The Klipsch forte heritages are really nice and listen up does carry them.  
 

i personally love ribbon tweeters, more than amt’s.  
 

Devore’s look really sweet as well…

@loki Thanks for the invite!

Thanks for those very interesting ideas!

Take a ride down to Santa Fe. There is a local speaker builder here. Viking Acoustics. David makes high efficiency speakers. My Tube Master's are 98db. They work great with my Allnic 300b amps. I've also had a pair of his Berlin's. Check out his website. You are also welcome to listen to my Tube Master's. I live in Santa Fe as well.

these are worth a look IMO - I did listen to them , 

Coincident Speaker Technology Super Eclipse Loudspeakers For Sale - US Audio Mart

smaller footprint , less weight - 

@hilde45  "Daedalus is very nice --- hard to audition and, of course, quite huge. "

The stereo muse is much smaller than the other Daedalus  speakers and for @mesch  they can be had second hand for "reasonable pricing". They just do not come up very often . I have the stereo muse in a 12 x 14 x 8 room. 

there are some risks as @jjss49 wisely states.

I'm referring to the non-sp 5xx series only. I have not heard the 501SP or 502SP. A friend who has heard one of the SP models thought it sounded exactly as you describe; a less expensive 7xx series speaker. He was impressed.

@keithr

@vinylvalet

"The F5xx series voicing completely baffles me."

I am curious if your experience with Fyne F5xx series includes the F5xx SP series or you referring exclusively to voicing of F5xx (non SP versions) ?

It seems like F501SP and F502SP has all the elements from the F7xx series and a potential to be very good speakers for less $$.

Thank you for sharing your experiences with Fyne. It is a brand that I’ve been eyeing for a while, really like the looks and specs, but can’t afford more than F502SP.

Allen

yes @hilde45

those who have tried and scrutinized focal towers learn before long that their published nominal impedance rating was definitely written by the marketing department and is largely b-s

Well done, Charles1dad. The devil is in the details. I tried some Focal 936 towers because they listed at 8 ohms, 92 dB sensitivity. However, when one looks more closely:

"My estimate of the Focal’s voltage sensitivity was 89.5dB(B)/2.83V/m—close to the specified 90dB, and usefully a little higher than average. The Aria 936 is specified as having a nominal impedance of 8 ohms and a minimum impedance of 2.8 ohms; my measurement (fig.1) confirmed the minimum value at 108Hz, but as the impedance stays below 4 ohms from the upper bass though the lower midrange, where music has high levels of energy, I would recommended using a amplifier rated into 4 ohms with this speaker." (JA in Stereophile)
https://www.stereophile.com/content/focal-aria-936-loudspeaker-measurements

From JA/Stereophile

Although the Fyne F301's specified sensitivity is a high 89dB/2.83V/m, my estimated sensitivity was slightly lower, at 86.2dB(B)/2.83V/m. The Fyne F301's nominal impedance is specified as 8 ohms. While the impedance magnitude (fig.1, solid trace) remains above 8 ohms from the upper midrange through to 30kHz, it does drop below 8 ohms in the lower midrange, with a minimum value of 4.77 ohms at 200Hz. While the electrical phase angle (dashed trace) is high at some frequencies, the impedance magnitude is also high at those frequencies. The Fyne F301 will thus be a relatively easy load for the partnering amplifier.

So overall is considered an easy speaker to drive. 

Charles 

Easy to drive 8 ohm impedance and 95 db sensitivity is a very desirable combination.

@charles1dad re Fyne- Can you point to the easy to drive 8 Ohm impedance? I can’t find any curve info except for the 501, which says 3 to 30 ohm with nominal 8. I’m thinking with a recommended amplifier minimum of 20 watts per channel, most are similar.

I’ve never seen much on the impedance curve with Tannoy either and know most use medium wattage, but many are happy with SET amps too. I can see the impedance "challenge" with very high sensitivity rating could make for a really fun dynamic and powerful/explosive experience with the recommended amp rating. With less power I wonder if one might wonder about unleashing the beast in the speaker?

Really cool looking designs and with Tannoy being a little lost in space these guys have found an attractive stage to perform on again. Is the high frequency driver in these two brands the same? Similar crossover at 1500? Tannoy has the tulip, Fyne has the isoflare. Kind of reminds me of that McDowell’s scene in Coming to America. "They have a sesame seed bun, our bun has no seeds..."

@jjss49  Wise, as usual. Thanks!

@drugolf I've mapped it. 8+ hours but a lovely drive. Maybe.
@steveyork -- Thanks for the suggestion. That might be fun! Didn't know about Prana. They are close to me. Will try to shoot you a DM in the new year! 

other downside is that small shops started by a single person or a small group can decide to go out of business without warning, or discontinue their products in a change of direction for the company

Also, beware the small startup "flavor of the month, best thing ever, you must be stupid to not buy these too". The all-time saddest irony along these lines had to be the unfortunate naming of the former speaker company "Vapor Audio". Who knew?

agree that buying from smaller, newer, less established speaker makers can offer great performance and value, if also a downside if one wants to resell later

other downside is that small shops started by a single person or a small group can decide to go out of business without warning, or discontinue their products in a change of direction for the company

one needs to also assess how one gets service or parts (e,g. blown tweeter after amp hookup mishap, for instance) - many smaller makers use commercially available drivers etc etc, so that can help in some case

for me, with such companies, i will generally try new ones at full price only on a risk free trial basis (or close to it)... whereas there is never such worry if getting a pair of well kept second hand harbeths, maggies, spendors, proacs, vandy's, klipsches there are always ready and willing buyers

also, the risks may be at a tolerable level if dealing with a pair of $1200 standmounts... lil riskier if one goes for $12 grand pair of 100 lb floorstanders

it is definitely a benefit to have the customer be in a local vicinity of the speaker maker... ability to demo, return, fix, help set up in customer home (if the maker is inclined) - so sometimes the risks of dealing with a small maker are mitigated by proximity

other thing to understand is for a smaller, up and coming maker, in this time of internet boards and forums, what is the nature of the customer following and ’buzz’ around a brand, if it considered ’hot stuff’ in the present period (take denafrips and dacs or spatials in ob speakers), trading in and out can be fairly easy with minimal financial penalty

Prana Fidelity is a local Denver manufacturer. Not as sensitive as others mentioned  but quite good.  I love my Bhava’s and the new Dhara is even better. Happy to have you over for a listen.  I’m in Centennial. 
 

Steve York. 
 

I have heard the Devore O/93s driven by a Line Magnetic 845 amplifier. Loved the presentation. 

One speaker I would love to hear is the Daedalus Muse. Seems to be a great fit for my room and electronics though at this time not so much so for my wallet.  A beautiful floor sstanding speaker that is not too imposing for a smaller room.  Would have to figure out how to pay for them.

Zu and Tekton are just over the mountains in SLC.