Devore or Audio Note or other sensitive speakers: wanting to listen in Denver
I'm on the hunt for a sensitive speakers to play really nicely with my Quicksilver Mono 60 amps. I've heard some nice Spatial X3's here in Denver thanks to a local audiophile. I was especially taken by their AMT tweeters.
If you're in the Denver area and have Devore, Audio Note, Zu, Tekton, or any other speaker which has really worked well for your tube amps, please DM me. I would be deeply grateful for even an hour of listening time. Thank you!
@jdoris Thanks. I wish RMAF was going, too! @jperry How is that link supposed to help me? Are you suggesting I have not searched the audio stores in my area or is there something buried in the Yelp link that I’m missing? Because I have been to the 4 fine audio stores listed and they do not have these brands and they do not have many options for very sensitive speakers -- such as the ones I listed. And that is why I am posting on a forum. Thanks for trying to help, though! |
@jperry Thanks for clarifying. I'll look for the ProAc. It looks like a flight may be in order. @ghasley I may need to go somewhere. I'm interested in any Devore or Audio Note speaker. I need to grok their sound, in general, the way I was able to with the Spatials with a local bloke. The point of this post is to see if any private individual in Denver has these speakers and might be willing to meet up. I posted this question about Spatials on AudioCircle and had someone reply in less than an hour with an invite to come over to his house. We had a great time. |
@nonoise Been to Listen Up many times. Not sure they really have anything like what I'm looking for. But will check again. Home installation and a bunch of other brands that I've heard but am not taken with -- Focal, Goldenear, Sonus, B&W, etc. |
A lot of my indecision comes back to some fundamental things I don't know, yet. What style of presentation for these sensitive speakers appeals to me? Single driver? Horn? Three way? Ribbon? Open baffle? Etc. That's one reason I'm trying to stir up occasions to go listen. The Monitor Audio Platinum looks interesting. Hoping to find MTM in a tower. I know the Legacy has that. @whart — most gracious of you. I love Austin and still have friends there from when I lived there for a decade, not far from Lake Austin. (I was on Enfield Rd., just west of Mopac.) Those Avantgarde Duos look amazing! @fosolitude Thank you so much for chiming in. I need to audition some horn speakers — they've not been something I've heard yet, I'm ashamed to say.
|
@lalitk — I will add Tannoy! Yes! I forgot about them. And I suspect we'd get on famously. I'll let you know if I go back to Houston. Gotta see the Menil again…been too long. Cube added to list. Hey — have you ever heard Pearl Acoustics' speakers? @fgbbill Love Fredericksburg. Had some romantic times at a tiny little A-frame called, I think, Gasthaus Schmidt with my new bride, a Texan! @carlsbad No, I won't overlook Tektons. And I'm not against modding, for sure. Thanks! |
It is 26.5ft x 15.5 ft. x 7.75 ft. Normal rectangle with a couple window wells (it’s in a basement). I would be able to do whichever treatments, rugs, etc. seemed appropriate after choosing the right speakers to go with my 60wpc tube gear. I’m not moved into the room yet. It was just created -- double drywall on ceilings with thicker drywall on walls and dedicated outlets and panel w/ surge suppressor at panel. |
@jdoris I spent 3 hours listening to the Spatial X3's the other day. Quite enveloping and lovely. I'm not sure I fully love that approach to sound, but it may merely be the foreign-ness of it, compared to my decades of listening to box speakers. One thing is for sure: a big, well made AMT tweeter is a magical contributor. |
@larry5729 I have been to Soundings before and it is a good store, though increasingly focused on home installation. Which speakers at that store are particularly high efficiency because that is the point of my question and I have not identified such speakers at that store yet. Please let me know? |
@69zoso69 To message, click on the user name in the thread and hold it down. You'll see an option that says "Message user." |
@audioguy85 It's good to know that the Wharfs can do that at 87db. My Salks don't do that at 87 db and I've tried numerous other speakers at around those sensitivities that are also not so nimble as what Reichert says he heard. I'd like to see an impedance graph for those speakers, or some other data, to know why they perform as Reichert says they do. There is a very big difference in abject power requirements for an 87db vs 93db speaker, so knowing what else is going on would be valuable. At least one thing would be the capability of a solid state First Watt to deliver current vs. my tube amp. @keithr @vinylvalet I have heard some Fyne in Denver, but not the better models. As a result, I came away unimpressed with Fyne, but I'd be curious to hear better versions. @keithr Can you say a bit about the qualities that initially attracted you to Zu, then Devore and eventually to Fyne? I have a brother in law on this journey, too, and we'd really like to know how/why things progressed this way for you. |
@charles1dad Thanks for the additional information about Wharfedale. Given JA's report about those low impedance values, I'd pass on Wharfedale. This was something which steered me away from the Focal 936, and Tvad pointed it out to me. I could *hear* the suck out. Such impedance dips are not good for my amps really -- easily -- driving those speakers. I am determined to avoid them, and there are a variety of speakers which can satisfy that requirement. Those following this thread closely might look here, an interesting brochure on Apertura speakers. Take a look at the Adamante and Enigma MKII speakers. 93 and 95db sensitivity, MTM configuration with ribbon tweeter. https://apertura-audio.com/wordpresssetup/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Apertura_Brochure_A4L-12pp_FINAL-WEB.pdf |
@vinylvalet Interesting idea, the RoomPlay session. I searched but cannot find where Jim Smith is located for these sessions. Can you reveal that? |
@vinylvalet Thanks. I have ATC high on my list but I realize I need to go down this path, first. That doesn't preclude other paths. I'm starting to see this hobby as composed of genres -- various combos of amps and speakers of different types, all with different types of synergies. It may be a search for the right combo or it may be a search for a combo for now. My hearing could change, my tastes could change, my wallet could change. I am already eyeing some Lyngdorf integrateds for the phase when (maybe) I downsize. |
@jjss49 Agree. That's a different path and I need to go down this one, first. But I can keep a list with a second heading that says, "Good Options, Act II." |
@keithr I don't think I'm headed all the way down to SET. I am trying to land in the middle, with tube amps running either KT66 up to KT 150 and/or a Pass XA 25 (25 to 50w on peaks).
Thank you for those recommendations. This thread is becoming *everything* I hope for in a forum. Not just recommendations of the usual brands — though hearing personal experiences is very valuable and of course I might actually be able to hear them — but other "under the radar" options. That's how I initially found Salk and Fritz's bookshelves. One thing I'm learning is that certain makers just aren't *oriented* toward one kind of amplification or another. Not just that their speakers' sensitivities are mostly under 90db, but that even if they have one or two speakers with greater sensitivity, they don't really design with tube amps in mind. That's ok, but it's not exactly easy to glean from the way they describe themselves. |
@charles1dad I'm looking now at those Coherents. I see no reason they might not best Devores for the money. But re-selling is probably harder for all these lesser known brands, eh?
|
@mrmanisundaram Thank you! I might do that in the next year or so. I see there is an Audio Note dealer in town, too. Flights from Denver run as low as $27 each way. Small price to pay to hear two very top candidate speakers. |
Ok, just summing up what I've learned so far about this topic, there are a few different axes to navigate. Sensitivity — while it's clear that there are speakers around 89-90 db and 100 db, what range between those, say, 93-96db (and considering ohms, and graphs about all this as well) is out there. Many options have been raised on this thread. Re-sale — I'm really learning how many very good speaker companies there are out there that one would never hear of without a forum. That's a great thing to learn, but if this is not an endgame speaker, how hard or at what cost would re-sale be? A Devore would sell easily; Coherent audio or NSMT? Might take a hit. (Then again, one might not pay as much up front...) Design types — ribbon, concentric, active woofer, open baffle, MTM, etc. Again, a variety of styles to navigate here, all to be cross- referenced with top two factors. And, yes, of course anything above has to be heard, tried in one's room with one's gear, music, etc. But the reason I single out the above axes of factors is that one needs to figure out which to spend the time trying. Given the above, did I miss any major axis? |
Well done, Charles1dad. The devil is in the details. I tried some Focal 936 towers because they listed at 8 ohms, 92 dB sensitivity. However, when one looks more closely:
|
@firberger Thanks for your weigh-in. Very helpful. I suspect my Salk SS6M's are in the category with the ProAc et al. Need more power. I'm using tubes for my pre and just upped their caps with both Mundorf and VCAP Odam. Daedalus is very nice --- hard to audition and, of course, quite huge. Audio Note is seriously on my list. I have lots of treatments (including ATS) but want to not use them if I can! @gsm @jawest and @chinook9-- Thanks! That might be fun. I’ll circle back if possible and DM you. (One does that by clicking on the username here in the thread and choosing "message user") @charles1dad |
@jjss49 Wise, as usual. Thanks! @drugolf I've mapped it. 8+ hours but a lovely drive. Maybe. |
@b_limo These would be coming into competition with the Salks. The Salks are clearly underpowered by (a) my QS Mono 60 tube amps and (b) my Pass XA 25. In addition, when I have powered them with more wattage — Van Alstine SET 400 and/or MiniGan5, they get the speed they need but sound shrill — and this is with a tube line stage and plenty of room treatments. I really think it's the Be tweeter, but in addition, it's the lack of power. Perhaps what I really need is a Pass XA 150, but I have decided that I really like the lower power amps with more sensitive speakers. I thought these were 90db but they're actually 87 and if you look at their graphs, they dip down to 83 and 85 db at crucial points in the spectrum. So, they need competition to work with my amps, which I'm keeping. |
Thanks so much. I’ve been studying the impedance curve aspect, too, since I tried out Focal 936 (based on nominal sensitivity) and it was a flop (due to impedance curve). Wish Salk released such data but they said they get reports of their speakers but don’t keep them nor make them public. Shame, because that’s really a data point I’d love to have. |
@b_limo I know what you mean about hearing systems. I heard a couple of really great speakers (including the Spatials) powered with simple tube amps and the combination had everything -- the full balanced tonality, nimbleness of movement in dynamics, clear and light high end, fully articulated soundstage, and quick but full bass. I have not heard solid state with harder to drive speakers do all that, yet. I will try this direction, first, especially as I have good subs and a recently upgraded tube amp. |
@markhh2 Thank you! I appreciate your reply. |
@jjss49 Awaken the beast? On this nice thread? No! The question comes from a place of naiveté. The proposals of some of these lovely horn speakers seem like a very interesting alternative, given the OP's parameters. As many would agree, there is no perfect speaker. So, if one gives up a certain kind of speaker for another kind, they have either found the perfect speaker (congrats) or they made a trade off for some benefit. So, assuming that the trade for a horn was from a speaker already well matched, power-wise with their amp, what did the horn get them? Was there a room synergy that is now possible? Is there something else they accomplished? And -- for those who lost something with the horn and are willing to discuss it -- what did they give up? And why is the horn better despite the new (more minor) deficiencies?
|
If I find my way into investment banking or black market antique smuggling, I'll have the cash for those Cessaros. I assume that horns can sound great even without the NYC-Uberrich pricetags. Thanks @jjss49 for the links. I'll take a listen. Hopefully, I can get to hear some horn speakers in my area if our audio club ever gets out of lock-down! |
@jjss49 Well said. And of course, my buddy with a modest boat paid $40k for the boat and just had to replace a trawling motor for $4k. He gets to use it maybe 1/2 the year, or maybe a bit more. Audio is there all year long. And the points about the room are so key, too. Thing about good gear -- as you've said many times -- is if you buy good stuff used, well, then on resell it turns out to be a pretty inexpensive hobby compared to other hobbies. Can't sell used skis like you can sell a used Pass amp. |
@phantom_av Thanks for the suggestion. The classic series looks great. Maybe I can find someone in my area that can give me a listen. |
@chrisoshea Yes, I did. Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers (RAAL) tweeter. They work very well with tube and with my Pass XA 25. They are not likely my endgame speakers but are really excellent. I hope to write up a commentary about them sometime soon. Here they are:
|
