Detachable Head shell or Not?


I am in the process to up my game with some phono system tweaking.

I read in these forums of many people here with multiple arms, multiple cartridges and even multiple turntables.  I am guilty of this myself but moderately compared to so many phono hardware diehards here.

All the continued comments on Talea vs. Schroeder vs. Kuzma, Da Vinci, Tri-Planar, etc., etc, on these forums.  And the flavor of the day cartridge.  One easy way to manage the use of many cartridges, easily swapping between them, and getting down to one turntable would be to run with a tonearm that supports removable head shells or arm tubes.  And yet this does not seem to be widely done here.  Is everybody just too proud of all the pretty phono hardware to admire?

Many highly respected arms of the past, FR 64/66, Ikeda, and now Glanz, Kuzma 4-Point, the new Tru-Glider, all with removable heads.  And the Graham and Da Vinci with removable arm tubes.  These products have a huge fan base and yet there seems to be an equal number of those against any extra mechanical couplings and cable junction boxes, din connections, etc.

I can appreciate having two cartridges, one to bring out that addictive lush bloomy performance and another that shows off that clarity and detail “to die for”.  Being able to easily swap between the two, with hopefully only a quick VTF/VTA change, would be mighty nice.  If too painful a process, I can understand the need for two arms here;  like the idea of going through many LPs in an evening and not being obsessed with tweaking the arm for each.  I hope I never get obsessed to do get to that point.  But for different days/nights, to listen to different kinds of music, it could be mighty nice to swap out one cartridge for another in different head shells without the added cluster and cost of oh please, not another tonearm!.  Do a minute or two of tweaking, ONCE, for that listening session, and then enjoy.  There is always the added risk during the uninstall / install process to damage that prized cartridge.

Is running with a tonearm that has a detachable head shell all that sinful / shameful in the audiophile world ……. or not?  I’d like to hear from those who have achieved musical bliss with removable head shell arms and also from those that if asked to try such a product would likely say, “over my dead body”!

John

jafox

Showing 10 responses by pindac

I have a custom built tonearm, that is a complete reworking of a known brands model.

This arm has a SME type detachable headshell and during my discussions over a few years with the arms engineer who has carried out the modifications, the design weakness has always been the Detachable Headshell, but the convenience and ease of use has been the reason to maintain it.

Very recently the arm engineer has produced a upgrade detachable Headshell for the arm, that has a much improved coupling to the Wand.

Shortly before the Festive Season, I was given a demonstration of the Original vs New Design, and the difference in improvement was not subtle, it was the cherry on the cake, for the modifications.

Just a slight rethink of the mechanics of the interface and coupling method has brought about very noticeable improvements, with similar levels of convenience maintained for the exchanges if needed.  

There are endless variations of what it means to be an audiophile, I am quite confident through my time around forums, today it is most commonly associated with how much of an investment that one is willing to make into the equipment.

The P***ing Match of my choice for a system being much more superior than others choices is a common thread woven into the fabric of a heated discussion.

To be a 'true audiophile' is quite simple to achieve as per the basic general description seen today, the transition is achieved when a genuine interest/curiosity develops into and expression, where there is a noticeable enthusiasm to create recorded music replays through an assembly of electronic devices. From my end any one who gains this mind set is a likeminded compadre and will in my world qualify for the wearing the label of being an 'audiophile'. 

Hoorah!!,   a Thread where Compadre's Reveal their discovery that the Audible Satisfaction, where the intentionally produced sound entering the ear and creating sensory perceptions that delights is the most satisfying place to find rest as an enthusiast.

I think I can safely say, most individuals most enjoyable and memorable encounters with replays of recorded music, was experienced on equipment they did not own, and possibly never considered owning. It has been these introductions to devices and systems that has been instrumental in creating a enthusiasm and pursuit of very similar or matching replay standards.  

A little bit similar to my other enthusiasm, like when in Photography,                    the 'Being Their', and Capturing the Image, supersedes all the previous talk about the importance of the equipment being used, the Mobile Phone Camera Functions have seemingly destroyed that very old interpretation of how to be a good photographer, as there are stunning images to be seen taken on a Mobile Phone, solely as a result of the 'Being Their' moment.

A moment with Music, either as a recorded Replay or Live Performance and a moment with an Image, either Captured by oneself, or Captured by another, are both capable of putting a broad smile on a face.

The equipment will not even be considered at such a time, it does not stimulate the sensory perception, the equipment is merely a 'means to an end' and in many many cases over rated as a result of the endless subjective scrutiny of the devices capabilities and publicly made claims from obsessional type mind sets, that usually end up in another P***ing Match. 

Oh, how that wheel keeps on turning.      

The idea of having a continuous Tonearm Internal Wiring connect to the Cart's Tag Wire Connection Pins, and be free of any connections util it is RCA/XLR terminated to connect to the Phonostage is an age old discussion and will always live on, as the idea of reducing the wiring connections along the wiring route / signal path is seen to have benefits, as the signal path is a continuous material produced from a wiring of choice, as well as having the options added for choices on Tag Wire connectors and RCA/XLR Connectors.

The method when adopted will allow the user, if involved in the selections of materials used in the assembly to feel empowered in the choices, and instrumental in producing a bespoke design for a used device.

The less seen discussions on this subject are the importance of the Wire Type selected and the impact of the loom within the Wand and Pillar on the function of a Tonearm.

A wire needs to be extremely supple offering the minimum resistance to the free operation of the Tonearm, with '0' impact on the Tonearms Mechanical Function being the goal. To achieve a wire that can be routed within the Wand / Pillar and not create an unwanted level of interference to the free operation, a very small gauge wire is the usual candidate, usually found in approx' 30 Gauge (0.2 - 0.3mm).         Wire Gauge such as these will be available with different sheathing and different wire production methods, and even to the eye on observation appear to be extremely supple, certain wire types when compared are with a resistance to yeild their form.

When a wiring is within the Wand and Passing into the Pillar, there is a critical interface point now met within the assembly, where the bespoke chosen wire type and the produced wire loom, will if not very carefully thought out, be a detrimental  impacted on the Tonearms designed function, as the wire choice and configuration for the wire within the Wand / Pillar, will be able to effect the function of the tonearm and impact on the free movement that the bearing assemblies have been designed to create.                                                                                                            Additionally the impact of the chosen wire and methods used to route it,  can potentially require that built in ancillary devices onto the Tonearm may need to be set up to be over compensatory, to be used to counteract the impact of the chosen wire in use, as the ancillaries are designed to create the absolute control of the Stylus Interface when in contact witha LP. Their design function is not to correct a  Tonearm that has encountered a resistance to allow it to move with freedom, from a outcome of a wiring design change.

A Tonearm with a exchanged wiring from the original used wire, but uses the original designs terminations for the wire used in the routing of the wire, is now a bespoke design, that if completed by a competent technician should offer the same mechanical interface properties of the original design.                                                Any comments made on the perceived changes being assessed as a result of a different wire in use are going to be a subjective description, and only available from a very limited amount of individuals who might have received a demonstration, maybe even as little as one individual, that is ensuring their choice is the best option. 

 A Tonearm with a exchanged wiring from the original design, and is produced to have a Wire run continuous from Cart' Pins to Phonostage connections is no longer a design that is the intention of the original producer, it is now a Bespoke Modification and if this modified design is not very carefully produced, where the signal quality is the least of the considerations and using the materials most suitable for the mechanical interface is the utmost consideration, the modification can quite easily prove to be inferior to the original designs end performance.

The Bespoke Modified Arm does not really qualify to be referred to as the original model any longer, it becomes a Sub Category, Such as 'Big Joe's Modded SFR iv mk vii' as it is a substantial design change, that if not carried out by a individual that has the knowledge, can become Tonearm that can impact detrimentally on the original designs function.

From a Personal Stand Point, I am using a Tonearm that is a Bespoke Modification to a Branded model. The design on offer was carefully assessed prior to entering into the purchase, and the dialogue about the modifications, the selected parts in use, the R&D, the micro mechanics being considered, and the friendship formed with the designer is still ongoing. 

I also have in my possession a further selection / surplus of Tonearms, of which one is a Branded Tonearm with a Manufacturer Designed continuous Internal Tonearm Wiring.                                                                                                           None of these Tonearms are able to offer the impression made by the Bespoke Modified Model.

To go out and buy a 'one off' version of a modified Tonearm without having full knowledge of the design considerations, or donate a very respected Tonearm to have a Bespoke and Unique modified Tonearm produced from a service that does not freely communicate the design parameters being used to ensure the Tonearms function is the total consideration, Fortunately is a route I am avoiding.     

'what tonearm offers both a continuous wire connection AND an interchangeable headshell? '

In reply to the above inquiry, the following is a sentence from a previous mail posted by myself within this Thread.

'Very recently the arm engineer has produced a upgrade detachable Headshell for the arm, that has a much improved coupling to the Wand.'

This redesign for the Headshell has a Removable Part and continuous Tonearm Wire.

The option to route wire continuous to the Phonostage is an option, as well as the option being available, that will omit the commonly seen wire connections at the Headshell / Wand interface but make use the earlier produced models, upgraded termination points for the wire when routed within the wand.

@frogman I am totally on board with your suggestion about routing a Wire Externally for the purpose of trials, and I am due to commence with this on a few differing but Bespoke Tonearm Designs during the upcoming months.

I already have had deliveries of ultra pure Silver and Copper Wires where 0.3mm OD is a sheathed version and the OD is less for the Wires that have a insulating lacquer without a Sheath. 

I am not sure if a Lacquered Wire will be welcomed as a part to be routed within the Wand, but time will tell, especially if it is a high on the list wire for the impression being made.   

The intention to experience the different wire options as a wire that can be used as an Internal Tonearm Wire, is a kind of 'last, but not least' investigation.

I have felt quite satisfied and confident in the performance of the assembly of devices in the  home system for a very long time, which ended with the decision being made, that the next area of investigation was to be the ancillaries used as interfaces between the devices.

This started out quite basic, with methods investigated to support the devices in use, and as a result, a variety of ancillaries are in use as equipment support designs / structures.

Running Parallel with the above was the removal of certain Interconnect Cables for New Cables that had modern Wire Designs in use, and I slowly ended up producing a System that was using OCC Silver and OCC Copper Wire Cables at most of the Interfaces as umbilical couplings in the Signal Path.  It was this experience that moved myself on from being a Cable Agnostic and I was quite impressed with the performance achieved through the adding and discarding a Cable until the presentation was attuned to my unique preference.

The investigation were rested with the devices and ancillaries for a few years and the System was enjoyed for the musical encounters it was able to produce.

A new encounter motivated an investigation of the other simple method available to myself to experience new interfaces within the system. Which was to be achieved through embracing the concept of Tube Rolling.

The initial stimuli for this was having joined a HiFi Group and then meeting a individual who has a vast experience of Valves, who is in possession of a Two Generation collection of vintage valves of which there are multiple pristine samples.

The HiFi Group were keen to encourage that my owned Valve Output Stage DAC, Valve Hybrid Phon' , All Valve Input / Output Phon' and the 845 Power Amp's Input Valves were all assessed by the owner of the collection and Valves were suggested to be used for upcoming Tube Rolling demonstrations, to be carried out with Loaned Valves from the collection of Vintage Valves. As I was not always available for a Group Meeting I loaned a device to the Group, and a shortlist of Valve Options would be made known for a a time when I was able to attend.  

A lot of Valves were supplied and various configurations were created. The impact on the device was very noticeable for the improvements made, and when the device was used in the system with the Valve choice made, the effect was even more noticeable. When assessing the Valve influence, consideration was also applied to the Cable Choices made, as these may have also been proportionally instrumental to the overall very good impression being made.

The idea about the Cable Choices led to the curiosity, that now the Valves are known that it be desirable to be acquired, would a carefully considered Cable Exchange further the already good impression made when the acquired Valves are in the System.

I had for a period of time whilst this experimentation was being planned for and taking place, been investigation the very Latest Wire Type Designs that were gaining a popularity in Cables being Marketed from a Selection of Larger Cable Producers Products.

Cable containing the following Wire Types, Hitachi HiFC , 1011, PC Triple C and D.U.C.C were all investigated and reviews were sought out to get a measure on the performance.

What was becoming a commonly seen description was the noticeable improvement PC Triple C and D.U.C.C Wires were having over a OCC Wire Cable.

My first toe dip into this was with an exchange of an Ortofon Cart' Tag Wire to a   PC Triple C tag wire, an initial experience of this Wire was enough to convince myself it was worthy of further investigation for usage as an umbilical at other interfaces.

I tried to acquire PC Triple C Wire as a purpose produced tonearm wire, but learnt the only Tonearm that has it in use, is a $13000 SAEC Model, and it was not an off the shelf wire available for purchase for a Tonearm. 

The Tonearm Builders I am sharing time with and who invite me to their demonstrations of their work, were asked to look into a method to produce a suitable wire for a Tonearm using a stripped back Cable to extract a Wire Strand, but the method has not yet been found to produce a Wire suitable for Internal Wand use  hence the external routed method, as this method will enable the wires to be trialed along with a selection of other wires, as well as with the designers own chosen wire for their models. This should as an experiment further the understanding of these modern Wire Designs in use on a Tonearm, if it is good enough for SAEC in a $13 K arm, there can be no harm in learning of a few things the Company discovered at their design stage.

The motivation to create this demonstration of New Wire Designs on the Tonearms   is solely created from my side, the Tonearm Designers are aware of the compromises that my suggestion to trial the wires can create, when an external mounted wire is used, they remain open minded about the demonstrations and are quite willing to experience my proposals and have already shared between each other a simple solution for mounting routing the Wires and a temporary shielding method, that if all the methods being selected work together, will alleviate the concerns for an unsuccessful demonstration completely. 

From a selfish perspective I am hoping for a PC Triple C or D.U.C.C Tonearm Internal Wiring, as the over the past year the whole of the system has progressively had New Wire Design Cables added, and is now set up with the same wire types being used at all other interfaces between devices, and PC's are the ongoing Cables being exchanged to the New Wire Types.

   

@frogman the description offered from a few added comments from myself, I think we are very close in our understanding of what a correct cable choice for our own systems can create.

 @dover 'I look at cables a little differently to most. I assume all cables degrade the sound, ( I formed this viewpoint when swapping out OFC cables to be replaced with OCC ) and therefore when I assess cables I am looking for the cable that does the least damage ( create the perception of being able to produce the the most honest rendition from my assessment ) - least damage in terms of transparency (to sense that there is an added level in the presentation, of being able to improve how the defining of the produced micro details, note envelope, attack, dynamics and imaging are being perceived, when these sonic traits are being realized the Soundstage takes on a whole new meaning ) the  noise floor ( to realize the former valued sonic traits the noise floor will be noticeably quieter and much less of a detractor, as once the noise is known, the coloration it will produce, can draw the attention and can become quite undesirable ), coherency. (when the Frequency Range sound correctly balanced between each other ands there is no on area taking a dominance, when this is being sensed as being a Honest Rendition, the performance during the replay can for some, including myself, become very satisfying )

I have always been happy with my system for over 15 Years, when it was still an analogue only system, and as it progressed to take on new source options in the digital format.

The devices chosen to assemble the system are pretty much the same, the choices made for the interfaces has been an evolving experience and has undergone changes as described.

The PC Triple C and D.U.C.C Wire in Cables has transformed the system to rendition my earlier sonic trait descriptions to a level I did not see developing.

I was quite alone in the quest for these cables, and now I have loaned a few types out the number of individuals in the UK are beginning to grow in numbers for the acquiring of them, some of these purchases are being made as a direct result of the demonstration offered, and others are made as a result of word of mouth recommendations and not from my mouth.   

    '

The idea of the continuous wire from Cart' Pins the Phono RCA will be very appealing to those who want minimised interruption in the Signal Path.

The method is best used only if the mechanical properties of the Tonearm are not impacted on by the methods to use the wire,

The goal is to have as close to a Zero influence as possible on the mechanical interfaces within the arm, and there are not many who deal with this area, that are with the understanding and skills to create the methods where a influence of the design change for the wiring is nearing Zero influence.    

It is difficult to see where the benefits are for the mechanical interfaces on the Tonearm using the methods suggested by the Tonearm Dealer you are in communication with.

I fully agree that a change of, or addition of materials, in an assembly, at an interface where parts are fastened to each other within the assembly of the devices on the TT, will introduce a change to the Sonic Signature offered.             The discovery to be made is if the change is a desirable outcome for the end user, changing Plinth Mounting Methods, Headshells and Platter Mats can also offer perceptions of changes being created in the Sonic Signature offered by the assembly.

Whenever there is a junction between two different materials it creates a reflection boundary which in this case would be trial and error to learn of the impact of the reflected energy at the interface.

It is a improved engineering / design consideration, to sink the energy through the arm and into the bearings and propagate to the plinth with the most efficient management of the energy transfer through to the plinth, where the energy will dissipate.

 

The following is a copy and paste of a section of an earlier post I had made.

There is an update on this investigation further on in this post.  post that follows 

________________________________________________________________

' The motivation to create this demonstration of New Wire Designs on the Tonearms   is solely created from my side, the Tonearm Designers are aware of the compromises that my suggestion to trial the wires can create, when an external mounted wire is used, they remain open minded about the demonstrations and are quite willing to experience my proposals and have already shared between each other a simple solution for mounting routing the Wires and a temporary shielding method, that if all the methods being selected work together, will alleviate the concerns for an unsuccessful demonstration completely. 

From a selfish perspective I am hoping for a PC Triple C or D.U.C.C Tonearm Internal Wiring, as the over the past year the whole of the system has progressively had New Wire Design Cables added, and is now set up with the same wire types being used at all other interfaces between devices, and PC's are the ongoing Cables being exchanged to the New Wire Types.

_______________________________________________________________

Today I have taken part in a phone conversation with the engineer who is producing the Tonearm that I am using.

Our models in use at present are not identical, as I have not had the modified SME Bayonet Headshell, that has a much improved coupling to the wand produced for mine.

I have heard my model in comparison to the SME Bayonet Headshell modified model, and have also had my preferred Cart' mounted onto the modified model.

There is a noticeable improvement with the modified Headshell in use, my own Cart' was being perceived for being able to offer an improvement in the preciseness of the details produced, and this is a cart' that is already very good at digging detail out. A longer listening period may have shown more of the improved capabilities of the modification.

This is a modification that I intend on having adding to my own arm. 

I have balked at booking the Arm in fro the mod' as there has been inroads made to the use of PC Triple C wire for internal wiring for the Tonearm.

I have had a very recent experience of this wire in use on the modified tonearm, which had got my attention further, even though I was assured there were a few foibles that were remaining to be overcome, as the sheath was not supple enough.

Today I was informed of a new sheath being used and the Tonearm is wired internally with PC Triple C Wire.

I was thanked for encouraging this line of investigation and was requested to visit to receive a demonstration.

The Engineer who has worked with this tonearm design for quite a few years has made it known they are extremely impressed and I should hear it in use myself.

He said he has no doubts in his mind why SAEC have chosen this wire type for their Tonearm.

I has taken a little bit of obsessional encouragement to get to this stage and the reports offered are very exciting.

I have another friend who is a producer of Tonearms and has been encouraged by myself to take part in these investigations, I am sure now the reports are as received they will adopt the methods used for the one that is now in use and looking to be quite a special item.