Important note: It was not a political thing. No advocacy or criticism of left right or center of political spectrum.
I started a thread last evening about how cultural changes occurring in Western nations might impact the audiophile world and how we post and perceive the posts of others. Upon opening my laptop this morning the thread was removed by the moderators.
Important note: It was not a political thing. No advocacy or criticism of left right or center of political spectrum.
I started a thread last evening about how cultural changes occurring in Western nations might impact the audiophile world and how we post and perceive the posts of others. Upon opening my laptop this morning the thread was removed by the moderators.It rather sounds political. But if you're sure you're right, why not reach out to the moderators and follow-up with them?
@cleeds Thanks for responding. Part of my frustration regarding the deletion of the thread results from the efforts I took in drafting the thread to not make it political.
My audio enthusiast concern regards the cultural changes taking place where the West is moving from the Modern Era when reason, facts and truth was embraced to a Post Modern Culture where those very virtues are bemoaned and besmirched. A culture where facts are fluid, feelings trump reason and I have my truth and you and everyone else can have there's.
What I was trying to get to is a conversation of how we as audiophiles regard our audio endeavors and talk about them. This is a blog whose very existence is conversation about a shared interest. I'm certain you have read, as have I, the ongoing debate between those who believe that everything happening with our systems has a measurement to quantify it or the opposing view that not everything can have a specific fact or measurement associated with it.
Well...if the culture we live within is moving away from reason, facts and truths, that is going to change the nature of our conversations here, no?
That is what I was hoping to converse with people here about.
@cleeds If you are willing, I would appreciate hearing your perspective on what I've said here.
@hifiman5 thanks for the explanation. I’m inclined to think your motives for the thread were sincere, and I think it could have led to an interesting conversation.
On the other hand: The premise that the "West is moving from the Modern Era when reason, facts and truth was embraced to a Post Modern Culture where those very virtues are bemoaned and besmirched" is debatable. That’s not to say that I disagree with the premise, but it’s still likely to prompt a cultural debate from some. As we saw in the other deleted thread ("Have All Sales Stopped on Audiogon??"), once the discussion veers into culture, some contributors here respond with references to God and the Bible. I respect the faith of others but - by definition - there is no debating faith. Faith by its very nature stands on its own, and needs no proof or documentation.
That’s the challenge faced by this group’s moderators. They can’t babysit every single comment on every single thread, and so they have to make judgment calls. In this case, it looks like they applied the Barney Fife Principle of "Nip it in the Bud." Were the moderators wrong in this instance? I could make the case either way. You seem thoughtful and genuine, so I suspect you could also argue it either way, even though your preference surely would have been to let your thread stand.
Now we’ll get to see if this post of mine survives moderator review.
wolf_garcia"The strange world of hifi tweaks dismissed reason, facts, and truth the minute it was discovered that desperate hobbyists would buy anything"
It is sad and regrettable to read this because the comment itself reflects a distinct and even absolute abandonment of reason, facts, and truth and that you do not see that is only proof of that assertion itself so you seem to be confused, disoriented, and uncertain even as you labor tirelessly to convince others that you are enlightened, scientific, and rational.
@celander What are you talking about? I was the first one to respond to your thread about threads being deleted after I just had a thread I initiated deleted. That must mean I'm trying to hijack your thread about that very topic?
@onhwy61 @nonoise Fair enough. I think the original thread did contain what could be considered "politically charged references." It is very hard to discuss culture devoid without political references. I believe my first post in this thread avoided that.
@cleeds Thanks for your thoughtful response above. Some contemporary philosophers see the shift to Post Modernism happening as appeals to the primacy of feelings over reason and facts are indicators of such.
Imagine being able to beam someone from the 1960's to 2018. I think he/she would pass out from culture shock!
So @celander what should we talk about?🧐
@hifiman5 your first post seemed well put. Your second post seems to relate to what your now-deleted thread concerned.
It’s your choice whether to answer a poster’s question, like the one @cleeds asked you regarding following up with the administrators about their decision to delete your thread. I would have loved to hear that feedback, which is one example of something we can all learn from here.
I’m not concerned about what gets posted here, provided it doesn’t lead to a moderator taking an action to remove it. If one looks at several posts already made here, many are inviting moderators to review and remove them. Not only does this provide a disservice to those who take time to respond to a now-deleted post, but it also disrupts the flow of the discussion.
@djones51 I’m not talking about remembering and reminiscing. I mean take a person who’s life is in the 60’s and beam him to the here and now. Forget the shock over the obvious tech. developments...imagine their shock at living in a world where a great many people recognize the existence of more than two genders! JFK ( he was an idol to a very young me) would be a middle of the road Republican now.
In the alternative, imagine how folks from our time would react to the world to come 50 years hence.😯
Hifiman5, Perhaps the monitors may feel that your moniker may seem somewhat politically incorrect to some groups or preferences of individuals as they want all to feel welcomed here. It may seem to suggest that only "Hifi" is for"Men". It certainly doesn't appear that way to the majority of us here, as we are a very well rounded group.Alyhough, to be safe and more politically correct, perhaps if you modify it to something more like ... perhaps.. Hifi-lbgt69 ? Somthing along the those lines. We'll understand. Since as of 2018 there is now the recognision of 63 different gender types!!!
Everything is about politics. These are some of the politics of audio:
Vinyl vs Digital media
Analog vs Digital signal processing
Tubes vs Solid State electronics
electrostatics vs dynamic speakers
full range vs cross-over designs
active vs passive preamps
integrated units vs separates
tone & frequency controls vs purist designs
amps of different class topologies
signal transmission cable topologies
passive vs active room correction
What have you encountered in threads discussing these topics that would trigger an OP or Admin to consider their removal? Do you feel they were justified?
Geeze, I’m sorry I missed your post. The breakdown of our civil society is something I’m very interested in. I have a little bit of a different perspective than most who post here because I’ve lived over a longer time span.
I remember when FDR died. I remember sitting in a movie theater with my cousins (I was 7 years old) when the lights came on. The theater manager took the stage and announced that the Germans had surrendered and the war in Europe had ended. Everyone went nuts with joy.
I remember the panic when the Soviets put Sputnik into space which started the space race ... and unfortunately the Department of Education was started in an effort to "better educate our young people in the arts of engineering."
There have been enormous changes in our society over that time. Some for the better like race relations, and some for the worse, like dependence upon government for subsistence.
I remember the late 50’s and early 60’s when a family man could raise a family and have a comfortable life on one income, while the wife remained home to run the household. That one income was enough to buy a home too. That was before the theft known as inflation and high taxes took over.
Elizabeth started an interesting thread the other day concerning female nudity in advertising, specifically here on A’gon. She found it to be demeaning to women. I concurred. I thought it was an interesting subject because I remember a time before Playboy magazine and "The Pill" started the sexual revolution. That was a time when a man didn’t dare use foul language around women or children in public, or he would be faced by several other men within ear shot telling him in no uncertain terms to clean the language up. I was disappointed to see Elizabeth’s thread removed.
Age has a ton to do with a person’s perspective on civility, that’s for sure.
Everything is about politics. These are some of the politics of audio:No, everything is not about politics. Many things can be made political, and that’s exactly what politicians do. For example, pitting one issue "against" another - as you did here - is a classic political technique. But that doesn’t make those issues inherently political at all.
@oregonpapa, FDR introduced many of the social programs now considered government-provided subsistence assistance, including Social Security (which is in fact no such thing). When the G.I.’s like my Pa came home from WWII, G.I. home loans were made available, allowing them to buy houses, and creating the new middle class. WWII was largely responsible for the U.S.’s recovery from The Great Depression, also a major factor in the creation of that middle class. I mention all this because it is the middle class economy and society of the 50’s and 60’s that allowed pre-recorded music, Hi-Fi equipment, and musical instruments to become readily available, for which I am extremely grateful.
Personally, I think Veterans should receive far-more substantial benefits and pensions than they currently do, and elected-public servants---politicians---should receive none. Politicians don’t need or deserve the money, Veterans do. Neither I nor almost everyone I knew went to Vietnam when we graduated High School in ’68 (neither did Clinton and Trump a few years earlier), and the few I did came home either in a body bag (my sister’s boyfriend) or seriously screwed up (a really good Chicago Blues pianist I know). It’s the least we can do for their sacrifice.
I believe that I was the first person to respond to your removed thread a couple of days ago. I attempted to respond to the part that related to audio, but I also thought that it was an entre into a political conversation.
If that was what it was going to become, I'm glad that it was removed. The last one was very ugly, and had no place here.
bdp24"...it is the middle class economy and society of the 50’s and 60’s that allowed pre-recorded music, Hi-Fi equipment, and musical instruments to become readily available...I think Veterans should receive far-more substantial benefits and pensions than they currently do "
This is just a load of right-wing, American "conservative" political deception, illusion, and nonsense musical instruments have been widely available since someone first struck a stick on a rock or put a broomstick on a metal tub and Music Reproduction Systems have been evolving since Edison this whole thread is about politics, ideology, and social persuasion cloaked in a pseudo-intellectual guise about audio and music and the moderators should shut this crap down unless they want more political debate, argumentation, and confrontation especially by those who see through the American mirage of equality, justice and truth which is just about everyone outside of you're cherished nation.
Oh Gawd! Is it any wonder our society is at each other's throats? Can't we have a simple conversation about societal changes without politics getting involved?
bdp24 ... I agree with you on Veterans benefits. My first vote went to JFK when I was 21. I haven't missed the polling booths since. During that time, I have voted for every veterans benefit offered. In a 40 year real estate career, I sold countless homes to vets and taught them how to use their housing benefits. Even though these benefits are explained to them when they muster out of the military, so many of them still don't have a clue. Zero down with most of the closing costs paid for them by the seller allowed them to begin the American Dream. :-)
Clearthink, by editing out most of my post and adding your own somewhat desperately formed screed regarding how you imagine I might feel, you've shown yourself to be incapable of a relevant response to my comment or any understanding of other comments I've made in this or any other thread. You simply attempt to insult me with badly thought out nonsense showing you are neither clear, or much of a thinker.
We have taller buildings but shorter tempers; wider freeways but narrower viewpoints; we spend more but have less; we buy more but enjoy it less; we have bigger houses and smaller families; more conveniences, yet less time; we have more degrees but less sense; more knowledge but less judgement; more experts, yet more problems; we have more audio gadgets but less enjoyment; more medicine, yet less wellness; we take more vitamins but see fewer results. We drink too much; smoke too much; spend too recklessly; laugh too little; drive too fast; get too angry quickly; stay up too late; get up too tired; read too seldom; watch TV too much and listen to others too seldom.
wolf_garcia"Clearthink, by editing out most of my post and adding your own somewhat desperately formed screed regarding how you imagine I might feel, you've shown yourself to be incapable of a relevant response to my comment or any understanding of other comments I've made in this or any other thread. You simply attempt to insult me with badly thought out nonsense showing you are neither clear, or much of a thinker.
Wolf_garcia, by not quoting what I wrote in response to your bleating and adding your own somewhat desperately formed screed regarding how you imagine I might feel, you've shown yourself to be incapable of a relevant response to my comment or any understanding of other comments I've made in this or any other thread. You simply attempt to insult me with badly thought out nonsense showing you are neither clear, or much of a thinker.
celander "my post seems to fit this thread perfectly"
Well yes I am sure you are so proud of yourself for your post I hope that you’re next step is to sue George Carlin because he stole all of your words and that is a disgraceful, shameful and dishonest act by George Carlin that should not go without swift, immediate and decisive response from you it is a stain on your credibility, integrity and value as a contributor to this forum. 😂😂