Dedicated Vinyl system next upgrade?


Hi. I love my system. I really do. I love vinyl and listen to vinyl nearly exclusively via “appointment listening”. I do Sometimes stream and listen while I walk or while working but I love just sitting and listening to my stereo. I believe I’ve arrived regarding finally achieving a great set up and have experienced that vinyl “magic” that audiophiles obsess over. I understand that limitations exist and a great stereo will reveal the quality of a recording - good or bad. The law a diminishing returns regarding  upgrading is something I’m mindful of. I don’t have endless funds to spend on upgrades. My question is - what should I consider upgrading next? Should I ditch the integrated amp considering I’m using an external phono stage? Or should I go with a better integrated amp? Or should I look at a better cartridge? Do I upgrade my turntable or just the tonearm? Do I upgrade the power cable on my amp? 
Here’s what I’m currently working with - and thanks for your thoughts/suggestions! 

Clear Audio Concept Turntable
W/ Hana SL cartridge 

Herron Audio VTPH-2a Phono Stage

Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II integrated power amplifier 

Kimber Kable speaker wire and interconnects (I forget which model - an entry lever set - nothing crazy) 

Bowers and Wilkins 805 D3 stand mount loud speakers

Set of two stereo REL S/510 subs

paulgardner

Showing 9 responses by mijostyn

mulveling, I agree with you about the tonearm but it is no where near as bad as a uni pivot as long as you stay away from the stiffest cartridges. Schroder uses the same design in his Reference arm which has quite a following but, I am with you. I would by his CB arm. 
Paul, IMHO absolutely nothing other than the $300 cable will look really nice which will trick many brains into thinking it sounds better. 
Hi Paul, Great system! If you are getting cleanly to the volume you like then there is no need to upgrade the electronics. Your Herron has loads of gain so you are virtually unlimited in terms of cartridges there. Your tonearm is excellent but given the magnetic bearing I would avoid the lowest compliance cartridges like the Koetsu's and Air Tights. This would be a perfect job for the Lyra Delos or the Ortofon Cadenza Blue. I think that either of these cartridges will make an audible improvement in your sound quality and improve the tracking ability of your rig. Here is a comparison of the Hana to the Ortofon Quintet Black. https://www.analogplanet.com/content/hana-sl-mc-750-versus-ortofon-quintet-black-s-mc-999
Hey noromance,
I am working on pictures of the system. I am having some trouble getting decent pictures of the computer screen. Next I will try a dark room and play around with the brightness.
optimize, the vast majority of us set the SRA to the requisite 92 degrees and forget about it. Many of the very best tonearms do not have adjustable VTA on the fly and IMHO are better for it. Why do I want to spend money on something I would never use. The only arms I would make an exception for, because they are so good are the 4 points and the Triplanar. My personal favorites do not have it. Regardless of the arm I buy I'm going to get out my trust USB microscope, special protractor and set the SRA to exactly 92 degrees. If the groove is off 30 minutes one way or the other it is not going to matter. 
Compare the sound of your system to head phones. Good headphones are pretty flat. Except for the presentation your system should have the same tonal balance as the headphones. I think (not sure) that this may be the reason many love their headphones. They sound more right than their systems even though the band is in the middle of their head. I suppose then the mark of a good system is that it sounds like the headphones except the band is in front of you where it belongs.
I guess I am on optimize's side in this with a few caveats. Room control will correct frequency and time issues better than any other method by a long shot. But, it will not change the way a room sounds. It is not eliminating reflections or preventing echo. It's time correction is purely between drivers and subs. If you have a reasonable room and sub woofers set up correctly room control is all you need. Unfortunately, this is usually not the case. In the bass if the nodes in the room vary widely the power required to correct them will clip amps and bottom out woofers. With two subs if you put them right up against the wall or in corners symmetrically placed around the satellites you can minimize this. With one sub you can forget it. 
Most people do not understand that room control is done at very high resolution with high bit density. In my unit it is 48/192. Resolution this high is invisible, vinyl sounds just as vinyl always sounds except better.
I am working on pictures of my system including shots of the computer screen with measurements and corrections for the virtual systems page. I am having a hard time capturing the screen without haze so, if anyone more skilled in photography has any ideas they would be greatly appreciated.

Paul, if you go for a new tonearm I might suggest in order of expense the Origin Live Zephyr, Kuzma's 4 point 9 and finally Schroder's CB. Before you buy any tonearm please check the spindle to pivot distance and make sure the pivot will land squarely on your tonearm board which is not very large. Again, in terms of bang for the buck just changing the cartridge to one that is more compliant than the Hana will make the largest improvement in sound quality and eliminate some of your woofer pumping. I always assume people are using a full 2 way crossover for the subs. If not, getting a proper 2 way crossover will stop woofer pumping dead and drop distortion in your satellites by an order of magnitude. It will also allow you to raise the crossover point and make seamless integration easier. 

Back to room control, if you think the frequency response of your system is reasonably flat you are sorely mistaken. Unless you have room control This is a generalization I am more than happy to stick to. If you get a calibrated mic and impulse testing program,  https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-omnimic-v2-acoustic-measurement-system--390-792 ,you will see aberrations over +- 10 dB. Your fequency response curve will look like the rocky mountains. I have ESLs and I will show you all their response curve once I get the photography down.  
Three things Optimize. 1st is I adjust SRA with the platter turning so it is a true 92 degrees. 2nd is every record is a little different by perhaps give or take 10 minutes. So, if you adjust it by whatever method to one record you will be off on many of them. Third is your ear is nowhere near sensitive enough to pick up 10 minutes of error. You can not even hear 20 minutes.   https://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/vta_e.html  92 degrees is all you need. Just make the oncoming face of the stylus 90 degrees to the record surface and you are in business. 
Paul, the Concept is a fine table. You will have to spend a lot more to get significantly better. Yes, you have to make sure a tonearm fits before you buy it. The spec you need to look at is the spindle to pivot distance. If the spindle to pivot distance of the Zephyr lands anywhere near the center of your tonearm board you are in business. Ideally, you would get a new arm board from Clearaudio and drill it to spec for the Zephyr, plop it in and you are in business. 
I would much rather have a better arm and cartridge in a lesser turntable than the other way around. The next significant step up in a turntable would be to an isolated unit Like the Sota Sapphire IV and it is $3600. 
For less than that you can have the Zephyr and a Lyra Delos. That would for certain put you in hog heaven:)