I'm listening to them right now. The soundstage is very wide, and the sweet spot is much bigger. Unlike offerings like electrostatics, you can actually tell that there's another speaker room if you're standing well outside of the listening position. I've upgraded the caps on the rear binding posts, and it took me a while to dial in the highs with the included resistors, but I usually enjoy tweaking things. I don't think they're quite efficient enough for SET amps, but 20-50 watts of tube power is great.
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Map, the radial driver for the ERR's is a modified cast chassis 8" driver. From what I can tell it is reworked with the cone-which is very lightweight-and inverted, and attached to the spider/voice-coil by a spacer for lack of better terms. I know this isn't much detail, but the whole assembly is very well put together and well thought out.
The cabinet is not ported, but a passive radiator/drone cone is in the bottom of the cabinet, and there is a plinth that has a separation between the cabinet and the plinth for the bass.
I have talked to Zygi about the ERR's, the guy that builds these for Decware. Very nice guy, he does wonderful cabinets/veneering. I have been considering trying a pair of these for awhile now, I have been very curious about the overall sound in comparison to Ohm's.
I do like the idea of the ribbon tweeter and ability to adjust or tailor the sonics via capacitor/resistor choices if so desired. Don't know how mcuh difference can be detected, but at least it is user friendly in that regard. Tweaker's delight if so desired!
There are a few things that make me curious about these, one is the rated frequency response, seems to go fairly low for a cabinet that is more inline with the Ohm Walsh 2, and also pretty high sensitivity made for tube amps mainly. Also again, the fit and finish of the cabinets, hardware, grills kind of top the whole thing off for me. Of course the music they make has to be in line with the rest of the goods, so we shall see! Maybe later on this summer. Tim
Thanks Frazeur. That helps.
They are very nice looking. I would expect good things. The comparison with newer similar OHMs should be of interest to others as well as me I would think.
Given the driver configuration and the rated efficiency, I'm guessing that the driver must be operating as a Walsh/wave bending driver to some extent, but I suppose only the maker would know for sure.
Given the decware product portfolio, I would expect a good degree of tube amp friendliness. I have a vision of setting up a small tube amp based system someday in a bedroom perhaps. Decware is square on my radar screen for that.
Map, definately of the tube friendly sort for sure. In talking with Decware folks though, the ERR's have been used on several solid state amps as well with good success.
As far as the bending wave technology, I have read so much about it here and there and of course gone through Lincoln's developments with the Ohm A/F, and when I look at the way the current Ohm CLS drivers are made/utilized, and also the Decwares, I am somewhat at a loss to say it is indeed "bending wave technology". But honestly, it isn't something I get all uptight about-unlike several others on the forums, they sound good and that is all that matters to me.
The Ohm 3000 for me has been a struggle of sorts, but have kind of gotten things pinned down and they have been sounding very excellent of late. I am still wanting to try the Decwares for a few reasons that I won't go into here, but it just may have to wait until later this summer/early fall. We will see, and if that happens, a shoot-out of sorts will take place.
Enjoy the music! Tim
Rebbi, you are no longer allowed on the "omni" forums seeing how you left the fold. Hah, just kidding! Hope all is well with you and your audio/music endeavours.
I have been curious about the Decware ERR for far too long, and I do hope that things do work out to allow me to get some time with them in my own system, and just hear what they are all about. I look forward to it myself! Tim
Yep, omnis/radials are the minority. Conventional more directional speakers are somewhat in the same fold as a shiksa from the minority perspective.
Those of us in the tribe know what can happen there!
Just found this thread, and I have experience with both Ohm and ERR from Decware. Apologies in advance for lengthy post.
I own refurbed Ohms - 2000 driver in 100 cabinets. I have attended Decfest the last two years, and at the recent 'fest I had a nice, long visit with ERRs. (Also Decware's HR-1 - more on that later.)
My ohms are far from optimally set up (front and one side wall are basically missing, meaning speaks don't have proper support balance), and I have some modes in my listening room, greatly lessened by two homemade bass traps. Decware's room basically doesn't hold in bass, so they don't have any modal issues there. I have a high-current, but far from audiophile, Integra SS amp and a lousy Blue Ray player connected by HDMI. At Decfest, ERRs were fed by superb tube amplification through nice ICs, and sound was sourced by a modded (tubed) high quality CD player. It's obviously an uphill climb for the Ohms.
Decware is a three hour plus drive from home, so comparisons were off of memory, so that tells you my impressions are not to be taken too seriously.
My Ohms have cavernous, awesome bass power, clean and very deep (I'd say into the 20s, though maybe not lower 20s). Sounds like a high quality subwoofer is in the system, with almost no boominess (and bass traps help). They have detailed highs that are slightly rolled off, making them very pleasant to listen to. Extremely smooth.
I listed to the ERRs nearfield (they were better that way), whereas the Ohms are a good 9 feet from my listening spot.
Essentially, the character of the sound between the two sets I found to be very similar. The ohms go a little deeper (only a little), and sound like bigger speakers. They have a more powerful sonic signature. The ERRs are a little (only a little) more detailed, with a slightly higher quality tweeter. They might be a little more nimble, though at the cost of some awesome power in their sound. All of this assuming the associated differences aren't the real reason for a variance. But, essentially, I found them to be extremely similar. Both sets are a joy to listen to.
Taking a step up, Decware has HR-1s, which are essentially the ERRs with an added midrange driver on the front. These are the best sounding speakers I've ever heard. They have all the smooth velvet and envolopment of the omnis, but they add a more direct, involving punch from the direct midrange driver. Best of both worlds, and worth it to drive out to East Peoria to hear them if you ever get the chance.
I will post again later with more detail on the build of the ERRs. They have just been taken down off the site because they are re-doing them due to changes in parts availability. I've spoken at length with Bob Z (builder of the speakers, and a true gentleman) about them, so I have some notes that may be of interest.
The HR-1s look very nice!
THe hybrid approach using Decware's radial driver looks similar to what Blue Circle did a couple years back using an OHM CLS driver and is priced similarly it would appear.
ITs also not unlike what German Physiks does with its DDD driver based hybrid designs, though those are way more pricey.
Is the DEcware radial driver a Walsh style driver geared more towards the midrange and high end? They don't really say, though the radial driver orientation and configuration would seem to suggest that might well be the case.
OHMs CLS driver is hybrid by nature as well, but different in that a conventional dome tweeter is used to make the high end more directional than the rest, which is omnidirectional, whereas Decware radial and GP DDD drivers are the opposite, ie more omnidirectional with the high end. That's a big difference alone.
Also DECWare's business is built around tube amplification and it seems a safe bet their speakers are designed to work well, perhaps best, there. I can't think of any other omnis likley to work best with tube gear. Dueval maybe? Not sure.
ERR and HR-1's are both similar to Ohm CLS. Actually, Steve's (the owner) write-ups of the development of the ERR suggest that the Hegeman Model 1 and Ohm Walsh speakers were his inspiration.
The Decwares don't have any rear attenuation. John S @ Ohm suggested to me that this would cause some more trouble placing the speakers, and also maintaining the image throughout the listening area. I mostly listened to ERRs nearfield, and was having a little too much fun to remember to test that theory. The main radial driver in each Decware runs w/o crossover, with a single cap limiting tweeter. The cap can be changed, giving you some tweakability (Decware definitely has a tube-centered, tweaky philosophy). Tweeter is directional, and I think blended in somewhere around 6k (radial driver has natural roll-off at about that spot, apparently). Nice, deep, taut bass is driven by the radial driver loading a passive radiator at the bottom. Can run on 8-ish tube watts, but they were too limited for me there (and Decware will tell you that too), so they really need a good 25 watts at least.
So the ERRs and Ohms are almost identical (other than rear attenuation) in philosophy. ERRs are more efficient, a little more refined, smaller, and physically more delicate. The fit and finish surpasses both my 2000s and my Center channel microwalsh. Duevel, German Physiks, most MBL, Omnisphere, Morrison, Huff (if he's still in business), HHR... they all splash treble around the room, and use some conventional pistonic drivers, whereas Ohm, Decware, and Parallel Audio have directional delivery for high frequencies, and omni-directional delivery for everything else.
As far as bending wave action (sound propagating sideways off the driver, instead of coming off the face of the driver), all pistonic drivers do this, but in most designs it's to be avoided (contrary to Lincoln Walsh's design philosophy), and to what extent the current Ohm CLS driver and Decware radial drivers truly use this principal I couldn't tell you. I did flat out ask John if they still use that transmission line principal and he assured me they're still designed in this fashion. I have absolutely no reason to doubt him, he more often has talked me out of a purchase than he has tried to talk me into one (which has never happened).
The HR-1s add a midrange driver forward facing (and a little schnazzier cabinet). I believe it also uses 6" radial instead of 8" on the ERR. That midrange driver does have a passive crossover in front of it, which is somewhat of a departure for Decware. That was apparently quite a nut to crack (10 years??) to get it to blend. Wow was it worth it. Musical, deep, very quick, silky smooth, and (best of all) completely engaging.
I visited the gentleman, he goes by ZIGY over on the Decware forum, who makes the ERR speakers and his own design, the HR-1, last year at his home. His dedicated listening room is small but very well treated. Listening is basically done in the near-field. He did not have any ERRs available at the time, so I listened to the HR-1s and a prototype of the DM945. This was before he and Steve Deckert came to a formal agreement to distribute the HR-1s.
I have not heard any omni design, so I can't compare the HR-1s to Ohms, Physiks, Duevels or Planets, or the Holistic Audio omni. I thought the HR-1s sounded very good but had a more conventional type of sound than I was expecting, due probably to the front-firing mid-range driver. Source was a CD-player and tube amplification was used.
I liked the HR-1s but I loved the room.
And, as an FYI, the ERRs, while still available, are undergoing a re-design so one won't find them listed for sale on the Decware website.