Debate on a whole front end change


I am currently in a debate with my old man on selling a portion of his front end setup and use the savings to buy a new pair of speakers and also get an improvement in sound at the same time from the benefit of better speakers and better front end.

The benefit of better speakers is no dispute, but he considers my recommended setup as a strong downgrade.

He currently has a Denon "cost-is-no object" top loading CD Player (don't recall the exact model), Theta Gen VIII v2 preamp, Jeff Rowland Model 7 mono amps, ML Descent-I sub x2 and ML CLS speakers conditioned with PS audio PPP x2 and Kimber Select cabling throughout

The sound is intoxicating and the noise floor is pitch black. Any time I get a chance to visit I am always impressed how well his front end makes the CLS shine.

My recommendation is the following setup:

PS Audio PWD = 3000
PS Bridge = 800
Ethernet cable = 100 (for a good one)
2TB NAS hard drive = 200
Ipod remote/play list controller = 200
PnP app for ipod = 9.95

4309.95 Total

Beside the money that could be used to upgrade your speakers "SIGNIFICANTLY" this setup would benefit your setup in several ways:

1) 7,000.00 - 11,000.00 SAVINGS!!!
2) Less AC draw
3) Consolidated CD library via NAS hard drive
4) Playlist creation ability and not need to switch discs EVER

.....now the above mentioned are just conveniences that do not affect sound.

5) Native sampling = RAW 100% uncompressed data with no error correction = the ability to use the DAC 192/32 Khz if so desired. No jitter and less information lost via cd to IC to preamp.

So at this point he disagrees without explanation suffice to say that this is a downgrade. I am not avid audiophile and therefore cannot explain anything scientifically to him and I know just how good his front end products are but feel the change would be for the better.

Would like to know the thoughts of the community.

Regards,

-Joshua
masongsong

Showing 10 responses by masongsong

Wow. I didn't think to have to put a disclaimer to keep childish responses out the picture.

If you read the title we are debating the subject, hence it was a topic already on the floor.
I am looking to upgrade my speakers next year so he brought up how he would like to upgrade as well, but the cost involved would require selling part of his front end and sacrificing some sound quality on that end. I proposed the media/hard drive as an improvement while still improving speaker quality as well. Hardly brown nose disease.

Looking for genuine feedback. If you're bored and need something fun to do please choose another topic.

-Joshua
@ Rich.....You are right on all 3 accounts. However he has an open mind and has evolved with the times. As my recommendation to him promotes making another change we are both running the tradional setup but being of the younger generation I am more welcoming and excited for this new technology.

Linn sells 3 versions of this setup for as much as 20k!! if PS Audio can provide equivalent performance at 1/4 the cost is worth looking into.
@ Danlib1 - That is the kind of positive response I was hoping to hear. Since this has the DAC built in w/ option for Native streaming I hope that it will sound even better. I myself am waiting for the finishing touches on the development before taking the plunge.
@ Daniel -

1) The Theta Gen 8 v.2 is listed between 7-8k alone on the used market + Denon + Kimber Select and you can see where the price adds up just going off used prices at the going rate on Agon.

2) As good as they make the CLS's sound all ML struggles in the higher frquencies and with classical music. All of the family owns ML's of different models and we all struggle with the same issues.

He has been through 7 neck surgeries and music are his painkillers. The conveniece of the system alone is worth selling to him, but I know that he will not compromise sound for convenience. That is why I am hoping this will be a better sound than his current setup. I hope some more people with first hand experience like Danlib1 will give some feedback

-Joshua
@Has2be - He lives in CA and I live in UT. His neck wouldn't do well fly or drive so if/when I buy the proposed gear he would just have to take my word for it.
@Rich - The sweet spot is actuall been increased since the last time I had the pleasure. He picked up some Sound Traps to increase the range of the room
@Erikminer - Replacing the cd player for another cd player is a moot point since his player is already a high quality play. Got the model from him (Denon DP-QS1). Unless he wants to buy a Meridian there really isn't much benefit to upgrading and the convenience with same or better quality sound using a media server with the DAC built in is why I was exploring the topic with him
@Dtc - You are correct, the Theta is a Pre/DAC in one and that is the big concern is that while both have DAC of similar performance like an amp has similiar wattage the big concern is the change in sound from the different technology used in both.

-Is there a difference in how to rip music to a regular external hard drive vs the NAS? All I know is about the NAS is that it uses a ethernet cable instead of a USB.

He is retired/disabled so he is up to the task if it pays the dividends of the effort. He has a large variety of music preference and there are many high -rez files he would be willing to download.

As easy as that kind of a setup would be for me he wouldn't invest ANY money without prior knowledge it sounds the same (for less) or better.

We pretty much have finialized that since I am going this route he might make the trip to UT to hear how it sounds and demo my future setup and take the step if it performs as well as I hope.

Thanks for all he feedback

-Joshua
@Rrog - No matter how good your front end is a lousy speaker will sound lousy. Many audiophiles like yourself know that this was an advanced speaker for it's time that still kicks butt even today. Between the two the clear winner is the front end. As much detail and midrange the CLS delivers it still has issues (as all ML's do) of playing classical and matching the dynamics of a full range loudspeaker. Not to mention needed a separate sub and most don't compare.

Too bad old school mentality is still running through your veins. Why don't you stop using the internet and go back to pen, paper, and dialing the operator....? LOL! The comparison of not embracing this new tech is no different. You will eventually :)