While I'd agree that dealers should disclose if the stock they are selling is anything other than grade one, I'm curious how you made the determination that he isn't.
Funny thing, I just saw this post on AA. Don't you go there?
Just in case you missed it, short of qualifying disclosures to the contrary revealing it to be less than 1st quality new product, that would be fraud! Sort of the law in most jurisdictions of which I'm aware.
B stock should be clearly listed as such. I sell a lot of it, and my customers get the same support/courtesy as if they walked in the store and paid retail. I'm not sure how B stock could ever be worse than used. It may, or may not have been used, could be a demo for a show, or a simple return, but it still carries a manufacturers warranty. I don't think you will get that in most cases with used gear. Even though I can get anything we carry at cost, EVERY piece I use myself at home is B stock. It saves me a ton of cash. It's like buying at used prices, with a warranty. (I'm more than happy to sell "A" stock to anyone that wants that) I will agree there MAY be dealers that don't disclose everything. I like to think that is rare. I certainly am not one of them.
Mlsstl, If you were asking me how I know it happens, I have had it happen to me. A dealer sold me a cd player, didn't mention that it was B stock. Someone who knew the dealer better told me it was B stock after I had problems with it.
I returned it twice under warranty and after the 1 year warranty ran out the fourth one conked out. I threw it away and got a different player. That's how I know.
Can someone please define the term "B stock"? I thought it meant that the product had a blemish of some kind, but was fully operational or the item had been discontinued. Also if it was opened to look at by the store and customer.
"B stock can sometimes be worse than used. It can also mean that product may'd came out of the bad batch and than re-manufactured or repaired." - Shouldn't this scenario be called "refurbished?"
I doubt that it is an industry standard but any "B" stock I have ever seen is marked on the box. And some will have a warranty "B"stock addendum enclosed. To address the posters concern, I would concur that it should be disclosed at time of the transaction regardless of price. Also the manufacturer should confirm with the serial number.
A lot of new units are more or less "B-Stock" from construction / Brain. Raven turntable Motors, Tonearm Geometry, AudioDesk vinyl cleaner, ..- to name a few - you find endless "Banana Products"..... and did tell you the dealer how many changes were done??? Linn LP12 is B-Stock from Day 1 and none knew it, even today it is completely ignored. Everyone gets what he wants. A real B-Stock is top compared to some other hyped Products.
Tomcy6 wtote: "Mlsstl, If you were asking me how I know it happens, I have had it happen to me. A dealer sold me a cd player, didn't mention that it was B stock. Someone who knew the dealer better told me it was B stock after I had problems with it.
I returned it twice under warranty and after the 1 year warranty ran out the fourth one conked out. I threw it away and got a different player. That's how I know."
Very interesting. You "know" it was B stock because "someone told you." You "returned it twice" but ended up having four units over the period, and presumably their were "B" stock also. Meanwhile, the dealer and brand of player remain unknown, so I have no idea what purpose your post serves other than as a public stage for whining.
most of b-stock goes back through the manufacturer and they have a control either over the serial numbers or labels they mark either on the chassis or the circuit board. manufacturer also would know of any third party that provides the remanufacturing services as well so this unknown is easily solved with a couple of phone calls to manufacturer's customer service. if you somehow find out any evidence that the item is b-stock, but sold as new, you can bash dealer.
Thanks Zydo, you answered my question. But if a unit is returned as defective, then repaired by you or the factory for resale, is that B stock or refurbished?
Sellers should always inform the buyer of any relevant information. But B-stock is a nebulous term that seems to have several possible connotations. I think more descriptive terms should be used by sellers.
e.g. refurbished demo blemished open-box return but otherwise perfect
B stock, NOT the same as new or A stock. Charging the same for B stock = RIPOFF! Common sense! Full disclosure. What is there not to understand? Right is right and wrong's no good.
They can be one and the Same. Arcam for instance calls the units B stock. They may in fact be refurbished. They may have a cosmetic blem. We don't get a history on each piece. It basically comes down to the term the company uses. Klipsch "B" stock are almost always a blem. Usually a slight mismatch in grain, or the tint of the stain was somewhat off from what they expected. We had some big Klipsch that were "B" stock due to color. When I opened a pair, I liked them way better than the "A" stock. To me the color was just "richer" Many things that end up as "B" stock needed a simple firmware update. Regardless of what they call it, I always thought it was a good deal. I've been buying it since I was a teen. To be honest, I've yet to have a piece fail on me. If you are a person that can't stand the thought of someone else using it first, or will freak if it has a blem, or scratch, it's probably not for you.
Zydo, Thanks for the detailed info. I've bought demos before and saved a great deal of $$. But "B-Stock" is such a nebulous term, the dealer should always declare it during the sale.
In an attempt to preserve market price integrity some manufactures will have a strict policy agaqinst discounting, therefore, on occasion, to circumvent their own policy and to move inventory, they will periodically designate some units as B-stock and allow their dealers to discount the unit from retail.
Then there is this: I don't know if ARC still does this, but they did in the early 90's, and is what got me questioning their ethics. When the LS2 Mk.2 was discontinued, my local ARC dealer had a few "Factory Reconditioned" units available at the price of $1995 (originally $2995). The carton was stamped as such, and the dealer did not conceal the fact that they were reconditioned. All above board. However, after all the reconditioned LS2's had been sold, ARC then shipped non-reconditioned units to their dealers, pricing them at the same $1995! I felt betrayed, taken advantage of, insulted, and disgusted. ARC obviously should have offered both reconditioned and non-reconditioned simultaneously, at different price points, the non-reconditioned at $1995 and the reconditioned at perhaps $1495. Short-sighted on ARC's part, at best. And, I feel, ethically indefensible.
I know of more than one company that has created B stocks when sales are weak by opening new units . Customers were getting new units at a reduced price and those customers that were afraid to buy B stocks were paying full price, for the same equipment.
I know of a dealer that got in trouble for that and the company took the line away from them. That was several years ago and they never recovered from that. I think they are on their last leg.
Suffice it to say that ANY stock is fine IF you're made aware of what sort of stock you're buying in advance. Anything else is simply deceitful, period.
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