Ok, so from reading all this and assuming that everyone did the best that they could, I would be wary of buying a Mac unit, period. All the other equipment he owns has no trouble, but this unit, and even another replacement unit does.
DC Offset Blocker/Killer - where to buy in the USA
I have McIntosh MC8207, the first unit I bought from an authorized dealer came with a loud buzzing coming from the left transformer, and was replaced with a new unit which came with even a louder buzzing. The buzzing can be heard from 8 feet away. Then I was told to have install new 20 amp outlet that has its own isolated grounding.
That was done professionally by an electrician who installed two isolated 20 amp outlets, two 20 amp circuit breakers, two copper polls for grounding for each outlet, each outlet has its own neutral and power line. After all this done the buzzing sound was still there.
I was then told to buy a power conditioner which I did (Audio Quest Niagara) which was like $4000 and that did not help. Called back McIntosh and was told that I might have DC offset in my AC line and was told by McIntosh that I would need a DC Offset Blocker/Killer to which when I asked them where to buy one they told me to go on the internet and search to find one, to which I cannot find one.
This bothers me a little bit, if you as a company think that I have dc in my ac and i need a dc blocker wouldn't you need to sell one as well. I brought this amp to my friends house and it was the same no improvement, so my guess is that he has dc in the ac line as well.
So If anyone of you knows where to buy a DC Offset Blocker/killer please let me know, but even if this helps kill the buzzing wouldn't you guys think that this expensive somewhat hifi amp/brand should be silent from the factory. I mean this is two units in a row all purchased brand new.
My house is 5 years old, everything is brand new, the whole neighborhood is about 8-9 years old, my electrician says that I have perfect power coming to the house and everything looks fine.
Thank You
That was done professionally by an electrician who installed two isolated 20 amp outlets, two 20 amp circuit breakers, two copper polls for grounding for each outlet, each outlet has its own neutral and power line. After all this done the buzzing sound was still there.
I was then told to buy a power conditioner which I did (Audio Quest Niagara) which was like $4000 and that did not help. Called back McIntosh and was told that I might have DC offset in my AC line and was told by McIntosh that I would need a DC Offset Blocker/Killer to which when I asked them where to buy one they told me to go on the internet and search to find one, to which I cannot find one.
This bothers me a little bit, if you as a company think that I have dc in my ac and i need a dc blocker wouldn't you need to sell one as well. I brought this amp to my friends house and it was the same no improvement, so my guess is that he has dc in the ac line as well.
So If anyone of you knows where to buy a DC Offset Blocker/killer please let me know, but even if this helps kill the buzzing wouldn't you guys think that this expensive somewhat hifi amp/brand should be silent from the factory. I mean this is two units in a row all purchased brand new.
My house is 5 years old, everything is brand new, the whole neighborhood is about 8-9 years old, my electrician says that I have perfect power coming to the house and everything looks fine.
Thank You
225 responses Add your response
Try adding large paper/oil caps in series with one of the AC line wires, the type used for running AC motors and compressors, to see if it removes the hum. If does not resolve the problem the toroid could have enough of a magnetic field to excite some nearby ferrous object. Most likely the extremely toroid has shaken loose in shipping and/or is misaligned. Check the center mounting bolt for torque. If it really is a DC issue, then you could look up some ultraisolation transformer. I doubt you are using much the 5KVA of the transformer. Check the efficiency rating of your speaker and measure SPL one meter from your speakers and estimate how much power you are actually using. You can also plug in a Killawatt meter from Home Depot and measure power draw. This will help find a rating for an isolation transformer. As the problem appears with no output very little power is used. 90 dB SPL average is more than my ears can tolerate and with 90dB 1W speakers very little average power is actually used. 20 dB peaks will be at 100W. Most of the music energy is in the bass, where powered sub does the heavy lifting. Low frequency sounds are mostly non-directional and are mixed to mono on vinyl. So the need for stereo at low frequency is just not there, minimizing large speaker requirements, if you have a sub. This could lead to improved domestic happiness and possibly more flexible speaker placement. |
clearthink607 posts01-24-2019 10:50am The unit IS NOT defective, When the OP took the amp to the dealer it was taken to the service department. There it was plugged in, turned on, and the torid transformer did not buzz/vibrate. The OP said the torid transformer was quiet. The OP was in the room during the test. Again, the torid DID NOT buzz/vibrate. It was quiet. So what good would it do to send the amp back to the factory? The amp is not defective. It works as it was built to function. If the consumer has DC offset on his AC mains the torid transformer will buzz/vibrate. The more DC on the mains the louder the buzz. Should the manufacturer have incorporated a DC blocker on the line side of the torid transformer? Yes. But the manufacturer chose to save a few bucks. Ron, a McIntosh representative, said they get maybe 5 complaints a year about mechanically buzzing torids. His advice to fix the CUSTOMER’S PROBLEM is to buy a DC blocker. Probably most manufactures that use fairly large torid transformers, in their equipment, install a DC blocker. McIntosh does not. . |
"Probably most manufactures that use fairly large toroid transformers, in their equipment, install a DC blocker. McIntosh does not." That is what galls me the most. I own a lot of McIntosh equipment and am very happy, but it really galls me that they couldn't add a DC noise blocker inside their amps with the large to largest Toroidal transformers. IMHO, 5 customers a year is 5 too many customers. I have been thinking of trading in my MC152 amp purchasing a MC462 amp but this buzzing sound really has me take pause. I feel McIntosh is doing a big disservice to their customers by not adding the DC blocker, or adding one to the OP unit to make the customer whole. The OP has a lot of money tied up in his amp to NOT use it because of the noise. I have dealt with our local electric company in the past and it is like pulling teeth to get any kind of satisfaction. It took over 6 months for me to convince them that there was a power transformer across the street from my house and that the grid could easily support a 200 amp service for me. I had to take pictures from every angle and go to a meeting with them to show there was a transformer there. All they really had to do was go to my house and look across the street at the pole! The OP would be fighting a losing battle with his electric co. All they really car about is if you have power and is it safe, nothing more. In conclusion to my rant, McIntosh should do something for this person at their cost. |
And they do (Mc) read the forums and it sucks that not one of them made a contact with me to find a solution to the known problem. They were very quick to throw the ball at me saying that I have electricity problem (to which they never came to the house to test for it) and that I should deal with it, and that was the last thing I heard from them. And all they did was to tell me that I need a DC blocker to which I replied "Where do I buy one" and their reply "Search The Internet". Not even a direction to where I can buy one but they know that I need one. To my eyes they are all bunch clowns. |
@ tomiiv30 OP I think the reason the DC blocker you got may not be working correctly is because it doesn’t have a large enough ampere rating. Does it give an, ampere rating on it anywhere? I believe you are going to need one that is made for a big power amp. There is an Agon member that used to build DC blockers. I will see if I can find his user name. |
@ tomiiv30 OP The Agon member’s username is gbart. Send him a PM. I don’t know if he still makes them though. Make sure you give him the specs for the amp. https://www.audiogon.com/users/gbart . |
That is total BS,especially after bringing to another persons house that is a defect in the unit period. i sold McIntosh and they should take the unit back and fix the dam thing. Take it over one more persons house , if still an issue you know they are full of crap. Their integrity is not what it used to be I have found a lot of parts in there that a $6k amp should not have $3.00 Wilma caps instead of aa much higher caliber type as well as resistors ,even dipping more into Chinese parts . There transformers used to be made in California , that changed in 2010 where are they Built now ? . Is it still under warranty ? If so send it back, your dealer should be backing you ,try a different power cord just to make sure a ground didnot seperate, i Never had one do as you mentioned. If not in warranty bring to a technician to get a evaluation it sounds totally out of line . One more thing did you change anything ? Put another amp in Your system and if no issue then it is your amp. |
audioman58 That is total BS ... that is a defect in the unit period ... they should take the unit back and fix the damI agree that there’s nonsense going on here - the facts just do not add up. The OP has deleted his original post here about the problems and disappeared from this forum and the other forum where he raised these issues. He won’t identify his dealer - even though the dealer doesn’t seem to have been very helpful in resolving the problem - and he has refused to return the unit to McIntosh for evaluation. So it’s really impossible to know what’s going on. There transformers used to be made in California ...They’ve always been hand-wound in Binghamton, afaik. |
@cleeds What are you talking about, what have I deleted from this thread, everything that I have posted is still here and I have not disappeared I am still here but have nothing else to add to it, I am keeping the amp as is and I will never ever buy another McIntosh product in my life, simple as that. When the dealer and the manufacturer do not give a flying F about their customer, what else can a customer do except keep the amp because like I said before this amp when I took it to the dealer and once they plugged it in their outlet it was dead quite, why is it buzzing at my house and at my friend's I have no idea, all I was told is that I have or we have bad electricity that's all, I am no planning to repeat myself again everything is noted in this thread if you want to find out more please read the whole thing. |
@cleeds But no one from the dealer or the manufacturer cared to find a solution to my problem that many others are having too, so it is not just me. What good the warranty gonna do for me, except drain more money out of my pocket for shipping both ways to come to find out to be told that amp is working properly and they would not do anything else. And if somebody is deleting posts from my thread than it is the moderators and not me, and if that's the case than you know they have been paid off by MC to do so. |
tomiiv30 When the dealer and the manufacturer do not give a flying F about their customer ...Who's the dealer? what else can a customer do except keep the amp ...You could return the amp to McIntosh for evaluation and (hopefully) repair. I am no planning to repeat myself again everything is noted in this threadWho's the dealer? |
@cleeds Why do you want to know so bad who the dealer is, I don't get it. What can the dealer do more, I took the amp to them they plugged it in and it was dead quite, what else do you expect to dealer to do. They don't have to do anything else. Now if they cared more about their customers or me as an example they should have went the extra mile to try to help with this situation but they decided that they should not do anything\ but that doesn't mean they did something wrong to me. On the other hand the manufacturer should've jumped in and try to help me and the dealer as to why is this happening, what can be done, they should've trained the dealer more on how to deal with this kind of situations etc. Another thing is this amp works there is nothing wrong as far as the output or whatever else, the problem is with the transformer's buzz and this is something that only the manufacturer can fix not the dealer. I do not want to cause the dealer any harm because I feel that they have not done anything wrong to where I need to bash their name. Even though I was not happy of how they dealt with me I feel that is not enough to put their name in the open forum. |
@cleeds Let me get this straight with you, if this amp worked at the dealer place in their tech department and it was dead quite, what case do I have against them or the manufacturer at that point? So even if I shipped it to MC for warranty repair the same thing would happen at their place to and would say repair is not needed because amp is working properly and there is no buzz. I demanded that the dealer send somebody to my house or have the dealer contact MC to send somebody out to at least hear this amp’s buzz at my house because in their eyes it looked like I was bullS with them. I still have the amp and it still has that loud buzz and if any of them want to come out to my place to check it out they are more than welcome. So far nobody has reached out to me to make a visit to hear their product not working as it should. Let's see if they are going to do that |
tomiiv30 Why do you want to know so bad who the dealer is, I don't get it ...You've stated that, "no one from the dealer or the manufacturer cared to find a solution to my problem," so it's reasonable to ask who the dealer is. the manufacturer should've jumped in and try to help meIt still isn't clear why you don't simply return the amp to McIntosh for evaluation and (hopefully) repair. |
@cleeds It still isn't clear why you don't simply return the amp to McIntosh for evaluation and (hopefully) repair Because it would cost me more money to do so, I have to pay for shipping both ways which is not cheap, and I am not planning to spend a cent more because I am pretty sure nothing would get done. |
I think cleeds is right about sending the amp to McIntosh to be checked out so you at least have a record with them of attempting to fix the problem. I am assuming you only would be paying for shipping as the unit is under warranty? Take this with a grain of salt as I haven't had a similar problem, but I would have expected a good dealer to send it for warranty work whether they could hear the problem or not. You have the you tube video as proof of the hum. |
Why won’t
tomiiv
return his amplifier to McIntosh for warranty repair? Because it would cost me more money to do so, I have to pay for shipping both ways which is not cheap, and I am not planning to spend a cent more because I am pretty sure nothing would get done.It looks like you’ve made up your mind to be unhappy, rather than to seek resolution. It appears that the only money you’ve spent on this so far was for electrical work performed by an unqualified contractor that was hazardous and did not meet NEC. |
Are there any repairmen who specialize in Mac's? I can see the OP's reluctance to send into McIntosh, all they are going to do is open the box and slap a label on it saying it is okay. Though it would cost some money having someone look at it, at least you know if it, indeed, has a problem. And, using that information tell McIntosh. Who knows? They might find the issue and repair it. B |
I have made up my mind about this brand not just this amplifier. To answer to @cleeds I have done only one outlet that does not meet NEC standards which was un-installed completely and is no longer in existence and everything else is back to normal, but the amp is still buzzing. The amp buzz has nothing to do with what I have done with the electrical it just cost me money that’s all, money can be made but the experience I’ve had so far with this brand alone is unforgettable and was unpleasant. After spending so much money and not even one phone call was made back to me that should tell you something. The amp just sits in the corner collecting dust and if you wanna buy it it’s yours for $5K |
@ cleeds You want to know so bad where the OP bought the amp why don’t you call the two dealers tomorrow and find out which one of the two sold the piece of cramp McIntosh MC8207 to Bill, the OP. As for sending the amp back to McIntosh what part of it would be a waste of time don’t you understand? The thing weighs 100lbs. What do you think it will cost to send that boat anchor insured back McIntosh and pay to have it shipped back insured? Hell, why don’t you and jetter step up and be good guys and pay the shipping + insurance cost to send the amp to McIntosh, both ways. Goggle search, Two McIntosh dealers in Chicago Illinois. Audio Video Interiors of Chicago 5.05 Google reviews Home theater store in Oakbrook Terrace, Illinois Address: 1S550 IL-83 C, Oakbrook Terrace, IL 60181 Phone: (630) 607-0054 OR% Saturday Audio Exchange 4.649 Google reviews Home audio store in Chicago, Illinois Limited-hour retailer offering a wide selection of new & used home audio systems & components. Address: 1021 W Belmont Ave, Chicago, IL 60657Phone: (773) 935-4434 |
@ tomiiv30 Have you by chance sent a PM to gbart about building you a DC blocker for the McIntosh amp? . |
@tomiiv30I...……………………….. I would call McIntosh and talk to one of the higher ups and get some action. No one is going to call you if you don’t keep on their ass. You have a brand new amp collecting dust in the corner, not doing anything isn’t the answer. I would call and ask to speak to the persons supervisor, then when the supervisor comes on, I would ask for their supervisor. Once you are at the top, express your concerns and disappointment without getting angery (at first). See what happens. As a last resort, you could tell them you are going to plaster your story all over social media, the online forums, the works. Trust me, they will change their tune fast. |
@jea48 I have PM'ed him but never got a reply back, maybe he hasn't seen the msg yet or he is just not making them anymore. Also there are more than 2 McIntosh dealers in or out the Chicago area but again I am not going to name the dealer it is not needed since they have not done me crazy wrong. I did not buy from those two you mentioned I can tell that much. @stereo5 The way they have acted so far I don't know if I can keep my anger inside me without expressing my self out loud. I know they frequent this forum and other forums and if they wanted to help they would've done by now but none of them have replied to this thread or any other that I have made. I can sense they have their own fanboys that want to throw the ball at me like if it was my fault or something. |
jea48 You want to know so bad where the OP bought the amp why don’t you call the two dealers tomorrow ...I don't care where he bought his amp. That the OP won't name the dealer just suggests that there's more to this issue than he's willing to acknowledge. In any event, it's all a moot point now that he says this: I have made up my mind about this brand not just this amplifier ... The amp buzz has nothing to do with what I have done ... the experience I’ve had so far with this brand alone is unforgettable and was unpleasant. After spending so much money and not even one phone call was made back to me that should tell you something ...He seems to want someone to rescue him from his misery, but he won't send the amplifier in for an evaluation. That just seems odd to me. If he doesn't trust the factory, there are many independent, authorized McIntosh service centers - perhaps even one within driving distance for him. But he has made up his mind, so there's really nothing else to talk about here. |
@
cleeds
Ron, a McIntosh representative, said they get maybe 5 complaints a year about mechanical buzzing torids. His advice to fix the CUSTOMER’S PROBLEM is to buy a DC blocker. Repeat. His advice to fix the CUSTOMER’S PROBLEM is to buy a DC blocker. Why do you have a problem with understanding McIntosh's response to the customer? McIntosh knows the torid transformer buzzes if there is DC offset on the AC mains. So why do you continue to insist the OP send the amp to McIntosh? . |
@cleeds I don’t care where he bought his amp. That the OP won’t name the dealer just suggests that there’s more to this issue than he’s willing to acknowledge If there was something else that I am not acknowledging McIntosh would’ve been all over me. Are you out of your mind. This is a brand new amp bought from an authorized dealer, you are something else bud. People like you make the brand look even worse than what it is right now. Why should I send this heavy ass amp to anyone for evaluation is beyond me. Why don’t McIntosh come to my house and check out the problem, I have hiatal hernia and been diagnosed to not lift any heavy weights but I did lift this heavy amp to take it to the dealer, not once not twice but three time and spent at least hour and a half driving one way to go to the store. I still cannot understand how is it my responsibility to do all this things is beyond me. Here is the story: I go out to this authorized McIntosh dealer who is about an hour and a half away from, buy this brand new amp, bring it home find out there is a buzz call dealer, dealer says bring it back we will order you a new one new amp is ordered, I go to pick it up bring it home plug it in and boom louder buzz than the first one. Call dealer back, dealer says bring it back to the store for testing, I bring it to the store to the techs department plug it in and amp is dead quite and bam I got no case, dealer says see it works and there is no buzz, dealer calls McIntosh to tell them that amp is dead quite at their store and McIntosh says that there is nothing else that can be done, bam I am left alone with nobody backing me up. Actually I am told that I need a DC BLOCKER and was told this by Ron and Chuck but they won't even tell me where to buy one which made the situation even worse. ALL I WAS TOLD BY CHUCK IS TO GO ON THE INTERNET AND SEARCH FOR ONE - IF THIS IS CUSTOMER SERVICE AT ITS FINEST THAN I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WOULD BE IF OPPOSITE OF FINEST. There is nothing I hide it’s all here in the open and if some of you smart asses would like to prove me wrong than go ahead come to my house check out the amp and go from there. |
jea48 Ron, a McIntosh representative, said they get maybe 5 complaints a year about mechanical buzzing torids. His advice to fix the CUSTOMER’S PROBLEM is to buy a DC blocker.You’re just repeating a claim made by an anonymous poster on Audiogon. We really don’t know if it’s true, or not. Why do you have a problem with understanding McIntosh’s response to the customer?I’m not the one with the problem here. I’m happy with my system and - for that matter - I’ve always been happy with McIntosh service. So why do you continue to insist the OP send the amp to McIntosh?I’m not insisting on anything. But if the OP wants his amplifier evaluated, that would be a good first step. |
tomiiv30
Are you out of your mind ... you are something else bud. People like you make the brand look even worse than what it is right now ... Why don't McIntosh come to my house and check out the problem, I have hiatal hernia and been diagnosed to not lift any heavy weights ... I still cannot understand how is it my responsibility to do all this things is beyond me ... I am left alone with nobody backing me up. I get back home all pissed offI'm much more sympathetic to your plight than you understand. I hope you're able to get whatever help you need. |
@cleeds I don’t need anymore help nor do I care about this brand anymore. You think that $5-6000 would do me any harm, no. but the reputation of once good company can be ruined by cases like this. I think they have more to lose than me. I am done with them anyway and would not spend a cent more on it. And I was at piece until you dragged me back into it, and I am really trying to understand you why do you want to know about this dealer so much, they have done their job what else can they possibly do. And the MC8007 is not the only amp I bought I bought the MC462 and C52 and a Marantz AV8805 from the same dealer, so as you can see I spent pretty penny buying McIntosh equipment, and I was planning to buy another MC8207, a pair of Sonus Faber speakers but guess what, that ain’t happening no more. And once I sell my McIntosh equipment that is only 2 moths old since bought brand new I will move on to another brand. |
| Post removed |
| Post removed |
| Post removed |
| Post removed |
| Post removed |
FWIW, my reading of the thread leaves me with essentially zero doubt that the OP is being entirely truthful. And I agree with him that it is very likely that investing the time, physical effort, and money that would be involved in sending the amp to McIntosh would result in a finding that it is functioning as designed. Regards, -- Al |
jea48"Does that mean that you will stop posting to this thread?" No he will not like an infected boil or bloody hemorroid cleeds will not go away he will continue to argue, interrupt, and "obfuscate" the legitimate, genuine, honest, discussions that occur on this board among and between dedicated, knowledgeable, forthright audiophiles seeking to share they’re experience, wisdom, and knowledge in a straightforward, valid, and reasoned approach, style, and manner. Thank you, Al! PM sent to you directly!!! |
@almarg Of course I am being truthful, If I was not McIntosh and the dealer would’ve been on my ass from the get go. They know who I am, I have spoke on the phone with Chuck twice and my dealer spoke to Ron on the phone few times but I was never given a clear answer as to why is this happening and if they are planning to do something to fix this problem. Both me and the dealer were told by these two McIntosh representatives that I need a DC blocker and that I have bad electricity of dc offset on the mains even though McIntosh never sent no one to my house to check if I really have dc offset on my mains, they are just speculating, and even if I do have dc offset aren’t they suppose to help the consumer to come up with a solution, because I am not the only one with this kind of a problem. And since McIntosh has no smart answer they chose to stay quite as you can see. |
tomiiv"f course I am being truthful, If I was not McIntosh and the dealer would've been on my ass from the get go." You are damn right they would have been on you with lawyers invoking McIntosh's rights, credibility and intellectual property they would have lubed you up and rammed it to you if what you are saying is not the whole, complete, unadulterated, truth there is no doubt, question, or uncertainty hear as to you're claims, assertions, and statements with the single, sole, solitary, exception of "cleeds" who's oozing boil festers upon this group with repeated, predictable, and assured regularity, consistency, and frequency. |
tomiiv30 "And since McIntosh has no smart answer they chose to stay quite as you can see." I salute your perseverance, bravery, and valor in bringing this matter to the attention, awareness, and consiousness of this group you are to be congratulated, thanked, and applauded rather than doubted, questioned, and challenged! |
| Post removed |
Moderators: What’s going on with you deleting my posts, in what way or form have I spammed or offended someone on this forum. No wonder people like me never get help, because you let people insult me and lie about me but you would delete my posts when I defend my self. I was accused of deleting my own posts by @cleeds which is a big fat lie because I never deleted it any of my posts. I was accused that I am lying about my problem which is not true again and you have done nothing about it. There is no point of me posting here anymore because with moderators like this I am not getting anywhere. Just so you know I have copies of everything that has been posted on my thread so you can delete as much as you want. |
