You can't list the Devialet with either of them.
The Devialet is designed to be used with a digital signal directly to gain its full benefit of their technology.
The ASR and Dartzeel both require a digital source and a set of interconnects.
So when you think of the Devialet it is really a complete system minus the speakers.
So if you are thinking of comparing all of these pieces you need to consider the cost and complexity of the additional front end components.
Soon Devialet will allow for complete streaming into their amp, I haven't heard all three, I have heard the ASR and the Dartzeel, I am waiting myself to hear the Devialet.
Hi Audiofg is correct--I too have heard the ASR and Dartzeel --seen the Dev at last 2 CES shows but the thing is never going??
I'd vote for the Dartzeel.
Thank you Audiofreakgeek and Team212 for your advice. I listened to ASR Emitter 2 version blue this afternoon It was very special.
Ultimately I will have to listen to Darzeel and Devialet to conclude my decision. I prefer Anologue as a front end and wonder if the Devialet, being a digital amp and DartZeel CTH-8550 with its firmware updates may lean more towards pleasing people with digital products in mind? I dont understand how digital amps work but can only imagine that a digital signal be it from a front end or a Digital amplifier would only be a replicated Anologue signal to the nearest square or zero or one?
I would be grateful if someone could educate me with my very limited knowledge.
The Deviilet is now available in the USA, before now there was no US distributor.
I think the ASR is very good, and somewhat more reasonable priced than the Dart stuff which is very expensive for what you are getting.
I am going to get a demo of the Devialet, according to Six Moons and everyone who has seen the design and heard it, the Devialet is a breakthrough product, using a radically different design concept more like a reinventing of the Quad amplifiers of the sixties with modern digital technology.
The proof will be in the listening. Where do you live if you are in my area, NJ I would invite you over if I get a demo.
Thank you for your kind invitation I assume you live in New Jersey.I live in in London England it may a little to far this time.What is your current system ? and whitch speakers are you intending to demo the Devialet with?
We have had the Devialet for about 10 days now and it is unanimous , a true winner. This type of leap forward in absolute performance coupled with utility has not existed prior to Devialet. We have run it of challenging speakers such as CLX's, a show-stopper, Focal Stella Utopia EM's, and even Burmester B30's/B100's. We fed it HRx files directly from the PS Audio transport and it handled it beautifully. Dynamics, speed, presence, and spatial correctness were are top notch. I can tell you that all of us at Digital Ear are in love with the Devislet D-Premiere. Additionally, we have thrown a bit of testing at it to configure the additional outputs for subs and the result was successful and performance was in line with the rest of the product, absolutely top-tier.
Needless to say, we have it on display are ready to show off to anyone. Please call, email, or drop by anytime. www.digitalear.com
Very interesting concept with an amazing array of inputs except for the lack of a USB which seems odd for such a digital oriented design. What are the sampling rates? What's the phono section sound like. What's the cost?
Is it true Devialet is really owned by Bose? :)
Just kidding!!!!!! SOunds like very, very ground breaking technology.
Zappa1969: You said, "Ultimately I will have to listen to Darzeel and Devialet to conclude my decision. I prefer Anologue as a front end and wonder if the Devialet, being a digital amp and DartZeel CTH-8550 with its firmware updates may lean more towards pleasing people with digital products in mind? I dont understand how digital amps work but can only imagine that a digital signal be it from a front end or a Digital amplifier would only be a replicated Anologue signal to the nearest square or zero or one?"
First off let me disclose that I am the importer of darTZeel in North America. Now, why would anyone want to take vinyl and convert it to a digital signal and then convert it back to analog? It makes no sense especially with the limitations of the processing of the Devialet. Also, I would seriously be wary of digital amplifiers as I have never experienced any that do midrange or high frequencies justice.
The other problem with the "all in one box (DAC/digital volume/digital amp)" system is you are totally locked into their technology. Also, be aware, if they are controlling volume digitally, it just does not work. Bits are dropped.
If you listen to analog, focus on other non-digital pre-amp and amplifier choices. If you listen to digital, you might find much better DACs that what Devialet offers.
You mention that "DartZeel CTH-8550 with its firmware updates may lean more towards pleasing people with digital products in mind?". I really do not understand why you might think that. The CTH-8550 serves those who love music, both digital as well as analog. It comes standard with a terrific MC phono stage and absolutely is not designed with either format as a preference. I can tell you the owner of darTZeel is an analog lover. He has some of the best reel to reel machines as well as multiple vinyl rigs as a few of his sources.
I used a vintage Studer tape machine provided to us by Puget Sound Studios at both California Audio Show and RMAF last year and used it with the darTZeel CTH-8550 Integrated amplifier. We received multiple best sound in shows.
Audiofreakgeek: I think it is only fair that before you talk about products you sell or do not sell, you disclose that you are a commercial user.
Please explain further your statement: "I think the ASR is very good, and somewhat more reasonable priced than the Dart stuff which is very expensive for what you are getting."
That is a very open ended statement which is certainly without merit. Where is your justification? The darTZeel is considered to be among the very best in audio regardless of price.
Also, please tell us how the Devialet is a breakthrough product? Quite a bit of praise about a product you have never heard.
Blue Light Audio - darTZeel North American Distributor
Audiofreekgeek is an established Audiogon member posting under a new moniker largely due to all the heat he received using the old one regarding non disclosure promotion of his products.
Email or call me for details on this creep.
Want to know haw are the analog inputs of the D-Premier ?
Check this extract from Devialet web site :
The analog inputs have been designed with the Devialet quality and total lack of compromise.
- Internally routing all the analog inputs as differential signals although received via a "single-ended" RCA connector, with an insulating washer (a very meaningful detail), which makes all the difference: doubles the needed devices of the analog chain hence its cost and removes all the ground noise and distorsion, making the phono ground connection virtually useless,
- Providing a configurable resistive (9 to 460 Ohms) and a capacitive (100 to 700 pF) loading of phono MC cartridge for optimal operation,
- Paying the same attention to noise and distorsions as on the DAC and the ADH amplifier,
- Providing the same extremely wide and ultra flat (see figures below) frequency response as the digital inputs, totally independant from the speaker impedance, except a security sub-bass cutoff at 0.1 Hz for speaker safety purpose (no cutoff in digital)
- using the most optimal and accurate RIAA corrector, volume control and gain stage architectures. Should we disclose that it's the most expensive section of the whole product?
Actually some customers are using their D-Premier as an ultimate RIAA-Analog to Digital converter to rip their vinyl LP collection and build a bridge between recording technologies.
While the Devialet is incredibly good with digital inputs, it's not the game changer with analogue. While its phono section is fairly good, there are plenty better ones out there.
If I was going with an analogue front end I would opt for either the Dartzeel or the ASR Emitter.
As a former NAD M2 owner I would be interested in such a product ONLY IF there were an asynchronous USB input. Many others have done the PCM--->PWM---->analog amplification.(eg. NAD, Lyngdorf) But to my knowledge, no manufacturer has done it with a SOTA input stage. S/Pdif input on any DAC is by definition synchronous and therefore prone to much greater input-related jitter than the best asynchronous USB module/driver available from the industry leaders eg. Weiss, Wavelength, Empirical Audio, Playback Designs, Ayre etc.
I think what Jonathan is saying is correct. Once you go this route, you are stuck with an outdated design that can only be fixed by replacing the entire unit; which is what I have done with my NAD M2.
"Once you go this route, you are stuck with an outdated design"
Regarding the Devialet:
"The HDMI input is not enabled on my review sample, but it should be by the time these get to dealer showrooms. EVERYTHING on the D-Premier is modular and upgradeable. That's the nice thing about this component. It is as obsolete-proof as today's technology will allow. Wireless will be via 802.11 Yes, you can use them together and they can be bridged. Unless I had a pair of incredibly power hungry speakers, I certainly wouldn't need two. And last but not least, it stays cool, even when seriously rocking out. The full review will be out in our Feb 20 issue, on the Zinio electronic newsstand. About 10 days later in our standard edition. This was a long review! I still could have written another 2000 words! Crazy. Stay tuned. The D-Premier will be on our cover, and we only put gear on the cover twice per year!"
-toneaudio / February 6th 2011, 8:48 pm
I am sorry, what were you saying Mr. Timm?
Jtinn: If I may throw in my experience with the CTH-8550, the Devialet and the Boulder 865 - which should be considered as a very nice integrated amp as well and which I currently use in my office system along with Wadia S7i, Micro Seiki SX-777FV turntable SME V arm and Lyra Delos cartridge and Consensus Audio Lightning SE speakers. Opposite to the stereophile review which claims that there is almost no difference between the Dart and the 865 I feel that there is a huge difference. The Dart is more leaning towards the warm side of neutral whereas the 865 is clearly leaning towards the cold side of neutral. Resolution, transparency and detail retrieval is slightly better with the Boulder as well as its snap and attack in the lower octaves - which is much better. The Dart offers a more lifelike and pleasing (easier to listen to) presentation with some "weaknesses" in the lower octaves and less transparency. The onboard MC stage is fine and easily matches stand a lone devices up to US $ 1.500,00. The Boulder unfortunately offers no phono section - which is a real treat. The Devialet I found to exactly bridge the gab between the sonic advantages of both products - which led to my decision to sell the Boulder and to go for the Devialet. Value wise I think that the CTH-8550 is heavily overpriced - but in real life nobody questions the Value of a Rolls Royce versus a BMW 760i ;-)
Can you tell us/me more about the Devialet? I'd like to read what you think about it. I've been disappointed with some of the solid state gear for long term enjoyment lately that I've jumped back into tubes and want my next SS gear to be a keeper. Thank you!
Hi Joe. So, is your Burmester 911 MK3 a "keeper"? :)
I use a Lavardin IT to drive my NS1000m's - load tolerant amp that is super smooth.
I have heard Dartzeel back to back with Lavardin Products at the previous Lavardin and Dartzeel UK importers. Both were driving Martin Coltrane speakers and I thought there was this sort of golden sheen to it that put me off them. I have heard the Dartzeelz with a few other speakers, and have heard this sheen on all occasions bar when driving some Magico speakers.
I am singularly unimpressed with the rave reviews that Dartzeel continually receive the world over!
Your thread starter is interesting, coz I was pondering on getting the Devialet 170. I have a vinyl front end, though I am told that the phono stage etc is astonishing. I am going to an open evening next week and will report back!
I love the fact that Jonathon Tinn says that:
Dartzeel is amongst the very best regardless of price. I guess Rolls Royce Silver Shadows are amongst the most luxurious cars regardless of price as well then...
'Also, please tell us how the Devialet is a breakthrough product? Quite a bit of praise about a product you have never heard'
Not being funny, but the comment could easily have been made from an engineering perspective as opposed to a sound perspective.
Getting the best sound at a show is arguably saying best sound with loads of background noise in rooms that are not set up optimally.
I am not knocking Dartzeel, but don't go about launching into another product that you just happen not to distribute yourself.
Every importer says they sell the best stuff
What's with these "Zombie threads"(tm)?
Did Devialet finally solve those streaming problems people were complaining about ? I was following a thread on another forum where people were constantly trying 'updated' software from Devialet, but after the thread hit 80 pages, I lost interest. Now it is like 120+ pages and I keep hearing that problems are not over yet. That is like 4 or 5 years after the product has been brought to market.
It seems that reliability is the common problem with most French made gear.
How did you find the Lavardin to work with the Marten speakers which use ceramic drivers?
I can't comment on the ASR but I compared the Devaliet and Dartzeel in a small local show, by chance, nowone else was there. They were both excellent with a digital source, but the Dart was clearly my preference, by a good margin. Neutral very detailed, but with a warmish hint to them, I don't usually find in SS amps, I am a tube fan. If there was one amp that could tempt me to the solid state dark side, it would be the Dartzeel.
I am speaking from memory but the Lavardin balanced very well against the slightly cool and etched presentation of the Coltranes. No issues with bass power or slam
Any of you tried the Mcintosh MA8000 in the above price range ?
I liked the ASR very much, auditioned on Thiel cs 3.7 very nice combo.
Forget about the mcintosh. Asr is a very very good amp to beat. It is not the last word of course but which is ? I am using a full Asr team with rockport avior, sound is effortless, images are 3d and real sized, so the stage has a real deepness and wideness, everything is on order. Nothing is over emphasized, top to bottom integrity. It doesnt sound like ss but not tubey either. If you want a better sound you should look for pre/pro, which you should spend much more. On another topic you asked dagostino integrated. I think şt would be a waste of money, 43,5k is a very good amount to invest for integrated. I dont know where do you live but if you are in The US you may buy a much better pre/pro from audiogon for this kşnd of money. Buy Asr and dont look back, when the changing time comes, look for vitus or wavac :)
Thanks Altanpsx for your words.
You are right the ASR 4 boxes version is really amazing.
But i think my favorite combo at the moment is the Karan KA-S 600 amp with the Aesthetix Calypso Signature preamp.
That combo on Thiel CS 3.7 should be a killer.
I'm in France so i can get a good deal on Karan amp.
Love my Devialet, amazing product my only concern is the blinking red dB that comes on and off only while playing vinyl will I damage my Devialet??? nothing in manual whatsoever I am using a Koestu Black...thanks!
If I were you, I would post this question on the Devialet Chat website. Something definitely sounds amiss here.
You must listen to the Dartzeel. An amazing product from a superior designer. I think it would compare musically with anything. I own one so just my opinion but I've had a lot of gear to include JRDG's latest and the Dart will be hear a very long time.