I have a headroom total bithead right now, which goes out of the USB of any computer (instantly recognized as a destination for sound out in your preferences) and to some ultimate ears or powered monitors. it's more than okay and a huge improvement over the minijack out for the cans. however, I am looking into the apogee mini-dac, and the wavelength brick, for a more permanent setup with a computer that I might leave in my main system. another thing I tried is the new outlaw rr2150 receiver, which is a strong integrated amp that has a USB input. sounds pretty great for the money |
I have compared using Airport Express and hooked it up to my Meitner DCC2. All files were Apple Lossless. And yes, the Meitner CDSD-DCC2 is still heads and shoulders above Apple-Airpot Express-DCC2. Not even close.
Having said that I love using playlists for "background listening" such as parties. dinners or when I am working on something so it does have its purposes. The question I have is there a major audio quality difference btwn the wirless solutions....somehow I doubt it...Airport, Sonateer's Bard Audio etc...I am sure Wavelength etc will be better than the wireless solutions but then it simply doesn't work for me as my files are in PC and external hard drive in a different room. My thinking is that if I want to really up the ante on sound quality while retaining the functionality, then either need another notebook + wavelength....or go get a sep hard disk based player such as those offered by Olive and then hook up to the DCC2 and use the latter's DAC. |
96kHz is only available on the newer Macs.
I think that the newer Macs have the Crystal CS84xx which is actually the same chip used in a lot of high end DACs. |
I only see up to 48,000hz on line out. i even tried digital out; no 96000. Any ideas why? |
To upsample in iTunes on a Mac (running OSX 10.4.4), go to your applications folder, look in the Utilities subfolder, open up "Audio Midi Setup".
Under Audio Output: format, you can upsample to 96,000 Hz. |
Hi Steve,
How do you upsample on iTunes using a Powerbook? |
Kenn39 wrote:
I was afraid of the word "iTunes". On a WinPC, Foobar2000 gives better sound than iTunes in my opinion.
This is because iTunes on PC does not bypass Kmixer. With Foobar2000, you can usually find an ASIO plug-in that will do this.
Again, I don't know much about the Macs. To be safe, you may want to find out how to get bit-perfect digital stream from a Mac before proceeding.
iTunes on MAC is perfectly fine. Bit-perfect. You can even upsample.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Manufacturer/modder |
I have AE's going through a DAC1 to Red Rose Spirit's in my bedroom setup. Amazing, significant upgrade. |
I was afraid of the word "iTunes". On a WinPC, Foobar2000 gives better sound than iTunes in my opinion.
Again, I don't know much about the Macs. To be safe, you may want to find out how to get bit-perfect digital stream from a Mac before proceeding.
Good luck! |
I would be using iTunes with full size files. I've considered getting a Mac Mini to run everything.
What else do I need to know? |
Dollar for dollar, you can't do better than hard drive based transport.
Don't know much about the Mac world. Perhaps someone can shed some lights on the particulars in the Mac world, such as how to get bit-perfect digital stream out of a Mac.
The only other thing is whether the noise level from your laptop and hard drive can become a factor. |
"How the whole system sounds at the end depends on many other factors."
That goes for any set up. Especially when using a stand alone DAC. I just wanted to know if it's possible.
The next question would be, can you do it dollar for dollar, or do you have to spend more $$ to get the same sound? I already have the laptop (iBook), so that's money I don't have to spend. I would just need a hard drive, a Waveterminal and a DAC. For the money I spent on the cd player, it seems like I could get a better sounding DAC. Then it's just a matter of a couple hundred bucks for a hard drive & Waveterminal.
Or am I missing something? |
Too many variables here: is the standalone DAC better than the internal DAC of the CDP? Is the hard drive based system set up properly? Are the sound files on the hard drive ripped properly? Whether and how does the media player/OS re-mix the sound?
From those who did the comparison, as a transport, a properly set up hard drive based system can perform as well as a mega bucks transport. How the whole system sounds at the end depends on many other factors. |
"I cannot tell the difference between this and a $2,000 cd player."
That's the question I've been trying to answer. Will a hard drive based system (hard drive, to Waveterminal, to quality DAC) sound as good or better than a quality disc player? |
I've played around with using the airport express and then a TOSlink to a dac (Musical Fidelity) and into the preamp. Preamp is GamuT, amps Electrocompaniet, speakers Harbeth Monitor 30s. I cannot tell the difference between this and a $2,000 cd player. |
Audioengr:
I am using an external DAC. I bought the Music Fidelity TriVista 21 DAC for this purpose. I still need bit perfect output from the sound card at 44.1 Khz. I have reverse enginneered the driver for the Realtek 850 with IDA Pro so that I get the correct sample rate. It would have been easier to buy a new card, but would not be a challenge!
The DAC I bought was quite expensive at the time it was released. Sounds very good to me with my current set-up.
Mark |
Racerxnet - forget the sound card. Use an external converter with it's own power supply, or a USB DAC. |
Pardales: I was referring to the various stock models from M-Audio and Edirol, and mod versions from Empirical and Redwine. Many have been mentioned earlier in this thread.
I have not tried any other than the stock M-Audio Transit. Pairing with a Benchmark DAC1, I was overjoyed when using Secret Rabbit Code upsampler with Foobar2000. I think Waveterminal does not have the option to output 24/96.
Reading the marketing info on the mods, I think they have the potential to be better. I may look into them seriously in the future. At this point, I am just enjoying music. |
Kenn39: I am aware of the Waveterminal as a device than can take USB out of the computer and convert it into S/PDIF or coaxial. What others are there and are some better than others? |
I assume the TriVista handles jitter reasonably well. That leaves the question whether you are getting bit-perfect output from motherboard. Are you?
There are many external USB to S/PDIF converters, stock or mod, that can do a good job feeding your TriVista from PC. |
I am in the process of setting up a database with Foobar and output from the PC to a Music Fidelity TriVista 21 DAC. I am feeding this to the Bryston Bp25 PreAmp and 4 7BST monoblocks to my Kappa 9's or RS1 B's. From the PC I also send a signal to the Electrhome 8500 CRT procector for 2 channel home theater. The sound is excellent as compared to using the analog signal from the onboard sound card. The TriVista DAC has had excellent reviews from many sources and am quite pleased so far. I've also tried this with my DVD player for the transport and the results were about the same.
I am wondering if the music might be better if I use a quality sound card?? Right now the output is from the Realtek 850 chipset with the latest drivers available to the DAC.
Any responses are appreciated. |
Sent the Benchmark back to Audio Advisor today. I am almost ready to give up and just stick with the Waveterminal itself. I don't know what is inside that little box but it must be pretty special. I just got a great deal on a used Dodson 217 MK II-D DAC (with 218 software and upgraded BNC digital input). We'll see. Does anyone know what kind of D/A is in the Waveterminal? At $159 it has to be considered an absolute bargain. |
Just as a follow-up: I find myself astounded at the sound quality of my G4 laptop out to the Waveterminal U24 into the preamp section of my 6900 integrated. I preferred the sound of this combo to the Apogee Mini-DAC (used both as a stand alone DAC and direct drive into amp). Don't get me wrong, the Apogee was excellent and I learned a lot from it, but it was not a significant enough improvement over the Waveterminal set-up to justify the 1K price-tag (I got the Apogee from Sweetwater, they are a GREAT dealer and had a 30-day money back guarantee). It was mostly different.
I am now auditioning the Benchmark Dac-1. Too early to say but I will follow up once I have logged some hours with it both stand alone and direct drive into my amp section of the 6900.
It has been fun! |
|
PC, wireless to SB2.
SB2 -> External DAC or Analog out. Up to you.
SB2 will server as a bit accurate transport. |
I answered this in the Digital thread, but I have the same setup as you and I think you can't go wrong with either the Apogee or Benchmark. I own an Apogee Mini DAC and it produces an incredible sound. I am using it with Senn HD650s with a Zu Mobius cable which has been terminated with XLR plugs to go directly into the DACs XLR outputs. If you are using headphones, I recommend the balanced plug. However, the 1/4" headphone out on the Apogee is really excellent as well, I was surprised.
dshea |
I just figured out that I can get lots of great radio through my computer/internet as well. I can now sell my changer and tuner if I want. I am thinking about putting my money towards a really good DAC since my computer is turning out to be the heart of my system. Now that I have ripped my 500 cd's to computer, and have all the album artwork loaded as well, I can't believe I didn't do this sooner. I am rediscovering my music collection and listening to stuff I haven't listened to for years. It would not surpise me if we begin to see a lot of USB DAC's on the market very soon. |
I am using the U24 as well, with nice results. But I want more. I am trying to decide between the Apogee USB Mini DAC and the Benchmark DAC 1. Any opinions or experience? |
Followup:
I was in on this thread earlier on and wanted to let everybody know where I am now. I did buy a U24 to use with my G4 iBook. I purchased the Apogee Mini DAC and have my Sennheiser HD650s connected to the Apogee via XLR outputs through a balanced Zu Mobius cable. I listen almost exclusively to classical music and am a professional musician. This setup is astounding. I can't stop listening. |
Well the whole project has, thus far, come off without a hitch. They system sounds excellent and I love having music at the scroll of a mouse. Now for the long, arduous task of importing all my music to iTunes.... |
I was interested enough in this whole topic to buy an Airport Express and check into it for myself. I followed some of the info on Audioengr's website and used the Exact Audio Copy software for ripping CD's uncompressed to my PC HD (Compaq tower, fairly new). I bought a compatible USB wireless device and also the little Apple remote that plugs into the AE USB port.
I use the Monster mini to Toslink cable and run that into my Audio Alchemy DTi Pro32, where I messed briefly with increasing the word length from 16, 18, 20, 22 up to 24 bit. The DTi then goes into an MF A3 24 Dac which upsamples to 192khz.
We had a club meeting on Sunday at my place, so we spent a little time comparing the PC playback with playback through my transport.
The main drawback with the PC front end is on busier passages where the music seems to collapse a little (compress). In most cases it comes fairly close to the sound quality attained via the transport, but has never sounded better, only similar or slightly inferior.
I wonder if there are improvements to be had at the copy stage, perhaps some of the many parameters in the EAC software need to be set differently?
Has anyone using a good transport had better results with the AE and a Mac or PC server?
I'd be interested to hear if it's possible to improve the performance using the hardware that I have.
Cheers |
I am about to construct such a system. I am starting with a G4 laptop, and external hard drive and a U24 Waveterminal. I will connect the waveterminal directly to my integrated. I will let you know how it goes. |
In looking at Gordon Rankin's website discussion of setting up his Cosecant USB DAC he recommends setting the internal volume control on PC's at 50%; but on MAC's he recommends setting the volume control to full output. Seems the PC will add gain to the input signal but the MAC does not.
Perhaps setting the MAC to full output and turning off all DSP functions will help the sound quality of the MAC - Transit (or "Off-Ramp" for Audioengr) - DAC sound quality match that achieved on a PC - Transit - DAC system.
Anyone able to try this? |
"I tried the Transit on two separate Apple systems myself, and had several friends come to the same conclusion on different systems.
....the music sounded like it was castrated."
I heard back from M-Audio and they have verified that "in order to match levels of the MAC to PC, the MAC digital out must be set to +8."
I recently tried the comparison of MAC to PC using my Off-Ramp at CES, and initially it really sucked, but after turning off all of the DSP functions of the MAC, it got a lot better. The dynamics and loudness was lower though. I think the +8 setting explains this. M-Audio said that the driver fro the Transit for MAC is actually superior to the PC version. |
Is there any consensus regarding this question? Which is best and why? |
View the following thread:
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/scripts/t.pl?f=pcaudio&m=891 |
Hey all,
Newbie here..so bear with me.
I'm currently sending musci from my older G3 PowerBook laptop to the Airport Express unit, and than out of the AX unit via mini-optical to toslink into my HT receiver (Onkyo 502).
This sounds pretty good at this point in time, but I'm interested in how I could improve the sounds.
After looking at products like the Waveterminal, it seems that I have to power that unit via USB. Since the whole point of this (for me) is to be wireless, that's not an option as I don't want to run a USB cable from my laptop to the Waveterminal device.
Can any of you guys recommend an entry level solution that would be able to take the toslink optical output from the AX and convert to digital coaxial, and also hopefully allow me to improve the final sounds quality coming out of my Onkyo 502?
As a further fyi - for speakers (not that it really matters) I'm using a 5.1 system with Polk 35/25RTi for the front and back, a Mission center and a HSU sub.
Thanks for any help!
Chris |
I received my Waveterminal. I very much agree with the improved quality that has been discussed here. Wow what a difference. The clarity is very much improved, but without digital fatigue. The details at the soft dynamic levels are fantastic. There is also a much greater depth in the sound stage. I wrote a review of my comparison between it and the Transit on head-fi. This is the thread: http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=94520
Thanks Edumke for being the catalyst for my to get this unit. It really is amazing!
dshea |
Having some trouble getting my PC laptop to talk to the AirPort Express....
Looks like I will have to cut it out of the case to mod it - no fasteners. |
Great guys thanks. Off to ebay to buy a waveterminal. Then I can start thinking about the higher end DAC. I am using a portable AOS Piccolo DAC which is a fantastic unit for the money, but it is nowhere near the price range of those being described here. |
For passing the signal through to my DAC, I've been using the waveterminal and like it a lot. |
Dshea_32665, I have set up two nearly identical systems. One I set up for my friend, the other is mine. The only difference is that I am using the Waveterminal, and he has the Edirol UA-25.
Since the systems are set up miles apart, I cannot give you a side by side comparison, but after hearing both extensively, I would say that there is no difference.
What is fascinating to me is the difference between the MiniDAC and the McIntosh MDA1000. Switching between the two, the music sounds much different. The MDA1000 does just what they advertise; the music is smoother, less harsh, much more pleasant to listen to for extended periods. I have read numerous reviews that describe McIntosh as "musical", and that is precisely it.
Having said that, the MiniDAC might be described as ultra clear.
Both are fantastic. If I had to pick one, it would be the MDA1000. |
Thanks Edumke. It looks like I will be purchasing a waveterminal in the near future. Very cool. My DAC will be much more modest. However, I don't know anything different so I will still enjoy the upgrade.
If you can recall or could do a quick test, do the Edirol and the Waveterminal have pretty much the same quality when passing the signal through to the DACs? They are about the same price, but if one is definitely better than the other I would pick it.
If they are similar, I like the Waveterminal because it is smaller and doesn't have extra features I don't need. However, quality comes first. |
I have listened to the McIntosh MDA1000 DAC.
The MDA1000 is a bit "smoother" sounding than the Apogee MiniDAC. I love the way both DACs sound, but if I had to pick one to listen to for extended periods, it would be the MDA1000. The MDA1000 also upsamples to 768kHz, and it also cost 8 times more than the MiniDAC. The waveterminal seems to do a great job passing the PCM data to the MDA1000. I did not listen to the Waveterminal built in DACs, nor did I try the Waveterminal upsampling.
I did not do a blind test, so my thoughts are purely subjective.
The set up is: Apple G4 playing Apple Lossless files, USB to Waveterminal, Toslink to MDA1000, McIntosh 1201s, McIntosh XRT28s.
Sounds absolutely fantastic. |
Surely someone with a Mac can make the drive. Anyone?
I'm in Colorado now, occassionally in the Bay Area, but not anytime soon. |
I live in the mountains in central Oregon. 7 miles to the nearest town of 1000. |
FWIW the m-audio audiophile firewire has worked flawlessly from my iMac. Sound is not as good as from my CD player, but is fine for background music use. One day I'll upgrade it, but, it works fine. I've also been using it to slowly import my LPs into iTunes. |
Where do you live? I'm sure someone hear that lives near you will let you borrow their Mac. |
I use the UA-5 and it sounds pretty good for its price and never causes crashes... |
Unfortunately I dont have a MAC laptop, and I probably will not buy one. I will look into borrowing one for this. |
