D-SONIC SOA Class-D Core Amps. The best Class-D ?

Thank you, Syot.

Mitcht is right, no need to SHOUT since we're all here listening.

Tim

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Syot, enough with the all-caps, ..no more...please.

We see your posts and will read them.

No need for the all-caps.
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TIM...THANKS FOR YOUR COMMENT.
I USED ASC "TUBE TRAP" , ASC "SOUND PANEL" , RPG "SKYLINE"
SORRY TIM, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE PRICE OF THEM.

Syot,

Very nice system. Both of your Youtube videos sounded very good even on my laptop with headphones, amazing.

Your room also looks very nice although the room is quite dark. I'm finding it difficult to make out everything; I can see the Rowland DAC but don't know what's directly above it.

I like your room treatments, too. Can you tell me what wall diffusor panels you're using and how much they cost?

Thanks,
Tim

Hi Mitch4t , THEY ARE...........
CD TRANSPORT - C.E.C.TL3N
D/A - JEFF ROWLAND "Aeris"
PRE AMPLIFIER - BLUE CIRCLE BC3000MkII
POWER AMPLIFIER - D SONIC M3-1500m
LOUDSPEAKERS - TYLER ACOUSTICS "woodmere"
Digital cable - Siltech "Golden Ridge"
Balance cables : from d/a to preamp , preamp to poweramp ARE PURIST "Venustas"

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Syot, what are the components in your system?
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HI ALL, PLEASE VISIT YOUTUBE. HERE ARE MY 2 VIDEOS OF D-SONIC M3-1500M SOUND.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21CyWXtFsQ0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu0iGAEaG-c

I have 4 class d audio SDS 470 amps that I have bridged for mono operation in 2 systems- - so should be about similar to the d-sonic in power. I noticed a difference and certainly am very happy with the sound. My reference point is an Atma-sphere MA-2, which I had in my tube amp days, and, with world class preamps (C-J, TRL Dude) I don't feel I'm missing anything of what the MA-2s gave me! The Class d amps paired with high quality tube preamps are, to me, a perfect combination. And a bargain, for sure!

It appears there is a Anaview Tsunami coming. I was informed in a conversation several weeks ago with Robert Cohrs, the new U.S. regional West Coast Sales Manager for Anaview, that just under 25 U.S. electronic manufacturing companies have purchased quantities of the new Anaview power modules during the past 12 months. Robert would not disclose any of these audio companies since NDA's were signed with Anaview.

Respected/Roger,

I haven't compared these 2 amps directly but have indirectly:

I own, and previously used a Class D Audio SDS-440 as my main amp in my system. Class D audio's owner, Tom Ross, told me my amp and the SDS-470C amp sound very similar.

I currently use a pair of D-Sonic M3-600M mono-block amps in my system. These amps use Anaview/Abletec power modules and the D-Sonic 800S amp use Pascal modules. D-Sonic's owner, Dennis Deacon, has stated the Anaview/Abletec and Pascal modules sound very similar.

So, given the above, I'll describe the differences I noticed between the CDA 440 and the D-Sonic M3-600M amps:

Both are neutral in character and have smooth but also very detailed midranges and treble. Although the CDA440 has above average bass response and dynamics, these are the 2 areas I noticed were superior with the D-Sonic M3-600 amps. D-Sonic's bass is more extended, textured and detailed. I can discern different bass instruments more easily and clearly now.

D-Sonic's dynamics are also better. I can now clearly discern volume and tonal changes on individual instruments and vocals within the sound stage while these changes are more massed through the CDA amp.

The D-Sonic's soft to loud dynamics are also strikingly improved, which is very noticeable on HT and well recorded music (usually much better on hi-resolution omputer audio FLAC files at 24bit/96khz). However, the increase in power from the CDA's 440 watts to the D-Sonic's 1,200 watts per channel may be a main cause.

These improvements are subtle but very enjoyable. You'll need to decide if bass and dynamics gains are worth the extra money. Remember, this is not a direct comparison of the amps you're considering so your mileage may vary.

In my opinion, both of your amp choices are extraordinary audio bargains, delivering excellent performance at a very reasonable price. I think you'd enjoy either one and maybe you could just let your tastes and budget decide.

Hope this helped a bit,
Tim

Has anyone done a comparison on the following 2 amps?
1.Class D Audio SDS-470C ($700), 300W
2. D-Sonic M3-800S ($1,375), 400W
I have a feeling that D-Sonic is better, but I wonder how significant is the difference in sound quality. Worth the extra $700? Thanks.

Hi Mikela8,

Congratulations, seems like you have your new theater's amplification covered. I think you made a very good decision going with D-Sonic amps; detailed, neutral, dynamic and effortless sound emerging from a dead quiet background produced from small, lightweight boxes that only become mildly warm no matter how hard or long they're driven. Ideal, high-end and amplifiers for both HT and music at budget prices.

Enjoy,
Tim

I recently received 3 D-sonic M3-600M-A's, 1 M3-2000-5 and 1 M3-2800-7. Since my theater is under construction, I temporarily set up 2 of my Danley SM60F's on bar stools in the living room and all I can really say is WOW!

I recently received 3 D-sonic M3-600M-A's, 1 M3-2000-5 and 1 M3-2800-7. Since my theater is under construction, I temporarily set up 2 of my Danley SM60F's on bar stools in the living room and all I can really say is WOW!

In general, as class D amplifiers are 85% to 96% efficient, they run cool to moderately warm to the touch. There are few exceptions, like the Rowland Continuum 500 -- since withdrawn, which are toasty to the touch.

I just picked up a 3 channel D-Sonic and while it's not cold to the touch, it runs cool.

Kbuzz:

"My Bryson 9b runs a little to warm for my current set up, seriously thinking about a channel d sonic. Do they run warm I need cabinet placement"

Hi Kbuzz,

My D-Sonic M3-600M amps, even after hours of high volume usage, never get above luke-warm to the touch. I think these, or most any class d amps, are ideal for cabinet placement. Low heat is one of the main advantages of class d amps.

Will they sound as good as your Bryston? I've never used your specific amp, so I cannot say; but I can say these amps are superior, in every meaningful performance category, to my previously owned class A/B Aragon 4004 amp that I considered decent, even though it weighed 85 lbs. and could get hot to the touch. The D-Sonic weigh 15 lbs. each and never get hot. To be fair, however, my D-Sonics are in well ventilated positions atop amp stands on an open/top rack shelf. I use another class d amp, a ClassD Audio 440CS amp in bridged mono mode, in a totally enclosed rack position for a cc and it never gets more than luke-warm, either.

There are several class d stereo and mono amps, at good prices, that would be good fits for your needs.
Tim

My Bryson 9b runs a little to warm for my current set up, seriously thinking about a channel d sonic. Do they run warm I need cabinet placement

Thanks

Hi all,

Just thought I'd share an update I recently posted on Dec. 23rd of 2014. It was on a thread I originally started months ago on my new class D amp quest called "HYPEX,PASCAL OR ABLETEC". Here it is:

12/23/14 Update:

I received my D-Sonic M3-600M monoblocks, containing the Abletec ALC-1000-1300 power modules, a few weeks ago. My original plan was to place each amp on the carpeted floor atop spiked maple amp stands 6" inside each speaker. To increase vibration isolation, however, I bought a low rise audio cabinet to accommodate both amps. This rack is low (only 14" tall)and wide (5 ft) and has a maple wood top with front pull-down doors that conceal my surround amps. The rack sits directly below a wall-mounted 65" hdtv, which leaves a 10" space between the top of the maple rack platform and the bottom of the tv above. One amp, each atop its own maple amp stand with brass cone footers, is positioned on each end of the rack platform near each speaker, with my source positioned between the amps.

After delivery, I started to break them in slowly using satellite tv with a 1-2 hour exception that evening when we watched a war movie, "Lone Survivor", on HBO when I had the volume set at about theater level throughout. The new amps sound very similar to my former ClassD Audio 440CS amp, with a dead quiet background and an accurate sound but with even more detail and much more powerful dynamics. These amps definitely excel in ht duties since they are very powerful, run cool and are relatively small.

I've played almost all of my familiar music on these amps over the past 2 weeks, stored as APE files for cds and FLAC files for a handful of 24bit/96khz downloads. I would characterize the music playback as very smooth but with very good detail at the same time. My previous amp had these same qualities but I have the sense that the noise floor is now even lower with the D-Sonics and this made the smoothness and detail of the sound more obvious. Clear improvements were evident in the sound stage illusion and dynamics. The sound stage was just as wide and deep but images are more solid, dimensional and stable. I;m now able to concentrate on individual musicians/instruments and distinctly hear variations in tone and volume on good recordings. This is new to me and I find it really adds to my musical enjoyment. The D-Sonics produced the same illusion of 'being in the room', or 'the musicians being in my room', as my former amp did but with even more intensity and realism. The In general, I'd say the new amps have elevated my system's music playback performance, and my enjoyment, by a significant amount.

I stated previously that I'd update at regular intervals and report on changes I notice as the amps 'break-in'. However, I honestly haven't noticed any changes in performance thus far. Either there's been no audible changes yet or my hearing may not be as sensitive as I thought. It could be the aging process,I'm 56 now, and can't remember my last hearing test. Anyway, I'm not going to stop listening to music, so I'll try and stay alert for any subtle changes I notice and report back when I do on this thread.

Over the past few months, I've also been involved in trying to upgrade my system's bass performance. It's still fairly good, but I'm using a 20 plus year old Synergistics passive sub to augment the bass response for speakers that only go down to 37 hz. I purchased a replacement bass system that is scheduled to arrive within the next 2 days. It consists of 4 67 pound passive subs powered by a separate amp. After an extensive search, I bought James Romeyn's demo DEBRA bass system that entails a fairly elaborate setup procedure.

If anyone's interested, I'll probably be starting a new thread on this bass system in the next few days. The system claims accurate bass response down to 20hz,+ or-/3db or less. I'll be using this for both ht and music. The pictures and description listed on the link below are of the demo system I bought:

Go to www.jamesromeyn.com. Click on "Audiophile Gear" and then on "DEBRA Bass System". that thread

I don't want to update this thread every time I update my original thread since it would be too redundant and confusing. I will continue to follow this very interesting thread but this will be my last post where I copy and paste updates from that thread. Just in case anyone's interested.

Thanks,

Tim

Thanks G. Just spoke to Dennis, they are Pascal. I just ordered 3 M3-600M-A, 1 M3-2000-5 and 1 M3-2800-7 for a 16 channel home theater system based on the Trinnov Altitude32. LCR are 3 SM60Fs. Surrounds are 8 inch coax TBD. I am currently comparing the Reaction Audio CX-8's to my SM60F's to check for timbre matching. I am also considering designing my own surrounds atmos/auro with the BMS 8CN552. The SM60F's use a similar BMS coax at their apex.

Mike

Mikela8, if you contact Dennis at D-Sonic, he might tell you which modules are being used in the amps. G.

Any thoughts about what core amps are used in the D-sonics M3-2000-5 (5 channels) 5 x 400w & M3-2800-7 (7 channels) 7 x 400w amps?

Don, you can expect break-in to last anywhere from 600 hours to 1500 hours with your new amps.... Initial performance is almost always limited in the treble region. During breakin, performance is expected to fluctuate wildly, and become occasionally bothersome... but performance will trend upwards in the longer run and anomalies will disappear.

A popping sound on power up is common with amps that do not use a soft start relay, and a clicking and slight popping is also possible when you rapidly increase volume on the pre, particularly when approaching or passing beyond unity gain... Good idea to check in with Dennis though.

G.

Hi guys I just received my D-sonic M3-1500m for my Dynaudio C4 MKII. I just hooked it up and powered them on and noticed a slight poppy sound. This has never happened with any of my previous amps including other class D amps like Bel Cantos and Wyred 4 Sound. I decided to unplug the XLR connection from my preamp and power them on and still a slight popping sound from each speaker. I have upgraded cables and each plugged in my Monster power conditioner. Additionally, when I turn up the music to medium-higher volumes I can start hearing a slight ticking/popping sound when I adjust the volume up or down. Should I be worried? Is it damaging my speakers? I called Dennis and left a message waiting on reply from. Otherwise these little mono amps sound pretty impressive, especially in the lower frequency region. Tons of bass! My speakers sound even bigger and more powerful. I have had Mcintosh MC452, Parasound JC-1, BC Ref500m, W4S SX-1000 MKII, and so on. I need to burn these in more to see if they open up a little more on the upper frequency region. Anyone want to share there thoughts?

Has anyone had a chance to compare 1000ASP ice based amp with new d-sonic amps based AMS1000-2600?
I'm in the market for stereo amp, but want to do my due diligence before ordering.
I had an old outlaw 770(200x7) amp driving Pioneer S-1EX, S-7EX and other surrounds. When I switched to older D-sonic 3500-7, the difference was astounding in terms of bass control, sound stage, dynamics and imaging.
I'm wondering how much of an improvement would it be with amps based on newer AMS1000-2600 module. I will continue to use the 3500-7 for other 5 channels.

Hi Guido,

The new NAD looks very interesting. But I'm kind of committed to the Abletec now, since I've already bought the modules, amp cases,connectors, etc.
I'm not too stressed yet; the delay has allowed me to be able to pay in cash once they're completed.
I was going to call James today for an update but got diverted. I'm going to try and get an update tomorrow.

Thanks,
Tim

Hi Tim, this delay must be very stressful... In case you ever opted for a pivot, NAD Electronics has just released its first Masters Series stereo amplifier based on NCore technology, priced at an attractive $3K. See:

http://nadelectronics.com/products/masters-series/M22-Stereo-Power-Amplifier

At least on paper, the device looks very interesting... It uses the NCore module as a subcomponent of a fairly sophisticated circuit, not as an all-in-one amplifier connected to I/O terminals.

G.

Hi all,

Thought I'd post to let everyone know I'm still planning on giving my impressions of my new mono-blocks utilizing the Abletec/Anaview ALC-2600-1300 modules.

Unfortunately, I am still awaiting delivery of my amps as of today, Sept. 27th 2014. I'm not certain of the exact cause of the latest delay but suspect James Romeyn may have experienced another surge in Hypex NCore 400 based amp build orders, which he told me he's still receiving from customers literally located around the world. He's also stated that the Hypex amps are easier to build than the Abletec amps due to much better existing instructions, documentation and customer support along with a lack of availability of very useful wiring harnesses like Hypex offers. He, therefore, must either make individual connecting cables or build his own harnesses.

I will call or email James on Monday requesting an explanation and eta.
I'll try and update as things develop.
Later,
Tim

I switch from a Moon audio w-5 power amp to an Audio Research DS 450 driven by Audio Research LS27
it is a match made in heaven. Tango

Hi Tan43, could you contrast the sound of your D-Sonic amp vs your previous Spectral setup? What are the strong points of D-Sonic, versus the strong points of the Spectral?

Thanks, G.

Believe me. You would not be impressed.
I guess the most enjoyable "AB" amps I have owned were a pair of Spectral bridged DMA90s with a Spectral pre and all MIT cables.

>>I really think they preform better then any AB amps I have owned. They remind me of a pair of class A amps I owned some years ago.<<

Hi Tan43, what class AB amps have you owned? Just curious.

Thank you Timlub, I suspected that much... The newest generation Class D modules are late bloomers as much as the previous designs, but... when new generation class D amps come into full bloom, marvellous things are often heard *grins!*

I have abletec modules, they took about 900 hours for basic break in and still improved slightly over the next several hundred

Hi Tan43, your D-Sonic amps are likely to continue to sweeten for another 700 hours or so... Do keep us posted on their progress. G.

I am sure I have over 300 hours of actual playing time.
I really think they preform better then any AB amps I have owned. They remind me of a pair of class A amps I owned some years ago.

Hi Tan43, how many hours -- with a signal going through -- do you have on your amps?

Guido

M-db:

I did mention that my 300Ms were a little dry sounding.
I don't think cables were the cause. They just needed time to break in. At the present time they have plenty of body.
For the first 100 hours they appeared to get worse, but after about an additional 100 hours, they seem to mature. These switching amps, unlike those I had,do not have the gap I heard between the bottom end and the top end.
The sound stage sounds full top to bottom and left to right. I also think that in time they will continue to improve.

Tan have you ever tried heavy copper cabling both input and output and compared to what your currently using.

My last switching amplifier purchase was a pair of Hypex NC400s so I'm not sure how this synergy has changed with newer designs. With my first class D a PS Audio and all the others I either owned or auditioned in house, silver cabling had a slight but noticeable to all, negative affect.

My class D cable history began with some original Monster Cable, Cardas Golden Ref, and finally NuForce. Hopefully others here can make a more contemporary comment on cabling.

Hi Dennis,

How would you compare the sound of the M-pro2 vs the S-pro2? 6moons compared the two in the Gado DIA 400 and 250 amps and liked the S-pro2 better. S-pro2 seems to be newer but the M-pro2 should be a step up, which is confusing.

Thanks!

Hi Dennis, as you can see, there is a little bit of uncertainty in the common lore about the specs of D-Sonic's fine amps. If you can add a little bit of technical information on your site for each model... such as available module options, the confusion will vanish quickly.

Saluti, G.

Tim,

I have been shipping amplifiers with the new AMS1000-2600 modules. The sonic differences with the previous ALC1000-1300 are very subtle with most source material. They do have a more natural resolution of detail and a more natural impact in the upper bass to lower midrange area. This is where most big dynamics are heard such as percussion, cellos, baritone and bass horns.

A previous post stated that I use B&O in all of my multichannel amplifiers. This has not been true for almost two years now. I use them only in the M2-1500-3 model and am phasing these modules out. I do have a few older B-Stock units also.

Regards,

Dennis

D-Sonic Dennis,

Any impressions on the performance of your 600M vs 600M-A mono-blocks you'd care to share? Are there any significant differences at all?

Thanks,
Tim

Thank you Noble Tim... Update on all fronts very much appreciated! G.

Guido,

The builder, James Romeyn in Utah, has had a few issues that caused delays in the builds; he received an unexpected resurgence of orders for his more typical Hypex Ncore400 based amp builds and he ran short of some connectors specific to the ALC1000-1300 modules. There seems to be a general shortage of these connectors available for sale but I finally was able to find 5 packs of these at a Profusion outlet in Denmark.

Romeyn now has all the required components and the completed amps are expected to arrive shortly (within 2 weeks), barring any further unexpected delays.

I was originally going to have mono-blocks built using the very latest technology and use the new Anaview AMS-1000-2600 modules. I actually ordered a pair of these modules from Shaw Electronics in Montana. But Shaw sent an email the next day stating they could not fulfill the order unless I was an OEM manufacturer. They gave me a full refund of my purchase price of approx. $850. In July of 2014, I found a Profusion Electronics outlet in the U.K. that was willing to sell me a pair for a similar price but would not have them in-stock until mid-September 2014.

In order to avoid these issues and delays, I decided to have the amps built using the somewhat older, but very highly reviewed, Abletec ALC1000-1300 modules instead. Even though my quest has been for quality performance over lowest priced, the reduced price of these modules ($560/pair)has not gone unappreciated since I'm now on a reduced and modest fixed income.

I am aware that the AMS modules may outperform the ALC modules but I'm not aware of anyone that has even heard both, much less written their impressions. If the new AMS modules do prove to outperform the ALC, I'm curious to know how much better and in how many areas.

Back to Audiozen's original question: "D-Sonic SOA Class-D Core Amps. The best Class-D?". I think Dennis has done a great job of recognizing the great performance and excellent value that some of the modern class D core amps represent. His main skills seem to be identifying the better class D modules and incorporating them into his products: Pascal modules in the M3-1500M, Abletec ALC-1000-1300 modules in the M-600M and B&O Ice modules in the multi-channel amps.

I believe D-Sonic now even offers the new Anaview AMS-1000-2600 modules in their new M600M-A model mono-blocks.

Since the D-Sonic M3-600M used the Abletec ALC-1000-1300 modules and the new M3-600M-A uses Anaview AMS-1000-2600 modules, Dennis is probably the ideal person to compare the two modules' performance.

In retrospect, if I knew the Anaview AMS-1000 modules would be available so quickly in the M3-600M-A mono-blocks, I probably should have just waited and bought a pair. Woops.

Thanks,
Tim

Hi Noble Tim.... Yes, wrong thread, but... Right Tim!

How are things moving along with your Anaview/Abletec1000-1300 amps to be?

Hi Guido,

G.

On your 7/20/14 post on this thread you wrote:

" Meantime Tim, what's new with your quest?

G."

Just curious as to which Tim you were directing that at? I know you're aware that I'm currently having James Romeyn build a pair of mono-blocks for me that contain the same power modules used in the D-Sonic M2/M3-600 monoblocks, the Anaview/Abletec1000-1300 modules, and I thought you might have been thinking I was following this thread.
Actually, I just read this thread today, August 26th. Very interesting thread and I'd be happy to chime in with details of my quest if you were directing your question at me. If not, then never mind and please disregard.

Let me know.
Thanks,
Tim

Thanks Mcbuddah.
Mine are on their own amp stands which I already had.
I also have ISO-Blocks under each leg of the amps.
I am sure I will make other improvements after they have
had time to break in.
I do not however plan to replace any of my equipment.

Tan, good luck with your new amps. I have had my M2-600 pair for a year and a half and I have not yet finished digging all the best sound possible from my system since they replaced an aging pair of Atma-Spheres that died together when an errant power regenerator went crazy. As I have written earlier in this thread, the break-in period is quite lengthy, although the amps show signs of excellence along the way. They are very revealing of problems with component and EMI/RF interference, cartridge setup, cabling, poor recordings, room tuning, etc. and drove me to make more than fifty significant changes in my system since new. They really came into their own when I discovered how much they like heavy brass footers and maple platforms. Most recently, I acquired a used W4S STP preamp and I am astonished at the synergy between them. I currently have my amps plugged directly into their own dedicated Maestro outlets through HCF Top Gun PCs and connected to the STP through heavily shielded Sonoran Plateau balanced interconnects. The STP is powered from a PS Audio Premier using a PS Audio SC Premier cord. All components use Eden Sound Bear Paws or Terra Stones on individual maple platforms suspended on iso-blocks. Care may need to be taken in physical placement of the amps as proximity to some components may result in stray radio programs mucking up the noise floor (a Thor phono stage needed to be relocated in my system).

It seems to me that the more I do elsewhere in my system has caused the D-Sonics to continue to rise to the challenge of making better sounding music. After this much time, The only bone I have to pick with the amps is that they made me work too hard on bringing the rest of my system up to minimum audiophile standards in order to get the best from them.