mig007: since you obviously are prescient, perhaps you might share with all us fools what the new format's going to be. i also assume that you advocate we all rid ourselves of our cd collections along with the transports that spin them, right?
Mig007; In addition to agreeing with Cornfedboy above; who told you CD players and transports will be obsolete in one year? That sounds like a naive (not to mention dumb) opinion to me. I expect to be using my good quality transport and DAC for years to come, and in any event, I'm sure as hell not going to sell it to you at an insulting low ball price. Good equipment is also often upgradable. Have you ever heard of upgrades? CDs are going to be around a long time IMO, and it will also be quite awhile before DVD-A has much in the way of hardware or, especially software available, also IMO. In fact, it's not even a viable format yet. If you don't want to pay what someone wants for their equipment, don't pay it-- this is America. CD players are available at Circuit City for $129.
Hi Mig: I have been contemplating selling my "GRAND ENIGMA" transport for "way" more than 40% off. I will run an add if I decide to sell - talk to you then.
The only ones who will tell you the new stuff is better than anything that came before are audio salesman trying to pay the rent. FM Tuners are a perfect example. They have overall, except for a few exceptions (and these are mostly mucho $$$$), gotten worse over the last 40 years.
"older units"?? even costly, are they worth anything? I think some items wear well, and others ARE outdated rather quickly. The classifieds have a number of items that are selling for as low as 25% of the original, and others that ARE holding a bit more respect dollar wise. Primarily the D/A converters are becoming obsolete. I (stupidly in hindsite) own an Audio Alchemy D/A converter that is really only good for a paperweight, now. If YOU LIKE an item you own, no-one can harm your enjoyment of it by thier selling an identical unit for 1/10 list.. or does that actually make you feel uncomfortable?
Elizabeth has a point on DACs. There are some DACs though that may not be 24 or whatever bit, but they still sound better. Having a good balanced analog like sound with good timing does not require 24bit resolution. As far as transports, they will not go obsolete very quickly.
Well, I certainly have stepped on some toes with my comment (I'm surprised no one suggested to get some cheese to go with my 'whine'); however, I am not predicting the demise of the cd format; only the onslaught of units capable of playing both the newer cd formats like sacd and the redbook variety; really, does anyone really doubt that sacd sounds better than the current cd standard; and if the availability of sacd titles rapidly expands, who wants a cd player/transport that does not play sacd or any other competing format; A similar situation would have been having to replace the home theater processing unit several years ago -- how much value would you place on dolby surround only processors knowing dolby digital was on the horizon (back to you, garfish and cornfedboy)
I'm beginning to feel sorry for the CD boys & girls out there is audiophile land. It will take a few years, but the CD format will lose its position as the dominant audio format. MP3 formats coming from below and DVD from above. The middle will not hold. CDs will not die, but they will enter the undead world of vinyl and cassettes. Fortunately, the newer disc based formats will maintain backward compatibility. Most of you are in denial.
Mig; The gist of your thread was bitching about people not pricing their CDPs and transports to YOUR satisfaction, not really about looming technologies. I mostly agree with Hwy61, except that I don't see anyone that's into music as being "in denial". SACD has not been very successful, and when DVD-A truly becomes a viable format (meaning with lots of software titles available), I will happily purchase a DVD-A player and I suspect many others will also. But, in the meantime I'm going to continue to enjoy CDs, thankyou.
........one other thing, no need to feel sorry for "CD boys and girls" as when the DVD format really becomes viable, they will be some of the first to adopt it, IMO. Do you really think that you're the only one that knows that DVD-A players will also play CDs?
Hey, I still listen to Mono LP's, someone told me that they are out of date. Is this true?
Hey, garfish, put the bottle down -- i didn't say those comments you make reference to -- that was highway61
mig007: your responsive post is graciously self-effacing, tho nonetheless, still a bit wrongheaded. let me tell you where i am in this quandry. i own roughly 2000 cd's (and more than 2 1/2x that # of lp's). i currently play my cd's on an accuphase dp-90 into a dc-300 digital pre/dac. both of these products are now outmoded. the dp-90 has been replaced wuth the dc-100, the latter being a top-loading transport that plays sacd's and "redbook" cd's. both the dp-90 and the dp-100 are exceedingly robust, very highend transports that are unequaled in sound quality, IMO. the dp-100 is designed to be mated to the dac-101 or dc-330. both the standalone dac and digital pre/dac are upgradeable via circuit board slots to play dvd-a or virtually any other other 2-channel disc-configured software (as well as dat, mini-disc, etc.). fortunately, my dc-300 is also upgradeable to the upsampling dac in the dc-330 (and dp-75v) and, with circuit board modules, to playback of sacd and dvd-a. i am going to hold onto my cd transport for the nonce and upgrade my pre/dac to current upsampling standards. i may very well purchase the accuphase sacd/cd transport in the future, but not now. (i can't recall the msrp of the dp-100, tho i know the 100/101 combo goes for $28k; the dp-75 was a relative bargain @ $7.5k.) that's becuz i'm not convinced that sacd is going to replace the cd or outduel the dvd-a. sure there are >100 sacd titles out there now. but look at them. >95% are simply re-issues of classical warhorses and 70's/80's rock. why buy yet another version of a disc i already own in multiple lp and cd editions? i am informed by reputable sources that sony will shortly be introducing a <$1500 unit in the usa that'll play sacd, dvd-a and rebook cd. it would be tempting to buy such a unit, simply as a muti-format transport. problem is, the sacd playback doesn't offer a digital out becuz of all the copy-protection paranoia foisted upon us by the big-3 of audio media. so, i'm gonna sit back and wait before i dump another $10k or more into the digital playback side. i don't have a dac paperweight/anchor 'cuz i paid enuf to assure upgradeability. while i'm waiting, i'll continue to enjoy my cd collection and ever treasure the thus-far-unsurpassed music produced on my analouge system. "but that's just my opinion; i could be wrong."
Albert, you can say that again! My favorite Beethoven was 4th symph. recorded in 1934! No CD ever came even close. Yet.
Mig; Sorry if my responses to you and Hwy61 were a bit "abrasive". Interestingly, nobody (including you) seems to want to discuss what your THREAD actually stated, ie why sellers want so much money for their CDPs and DACs. BTW, my DAC already decodes 24/192 and is fully upgradeable to well beyond that if necessary. Of course a CD only transport would be a write-off, but I really believe that CDs will be viable for many more years. And adding a DVD-A player is not a big deal. Cheers. Craig.
Obselete is a very strong word and in the context of this discussion its use is hyperbole. The CD format is no longer the current state of the art, but it's certainly not obselete. However, I don't see that manufacturers will continue to develop and make sonic progress with this format. If the past gives us any direction, I don't believe CDs will mimic vinyl. As the vinyl format was displaced the quality of the equipment dramatically rose. The backward compatibility of the CD format may ease the cross over to the latest and greatest, but it may relegate CDs to an afterthought, similar to AM radio. Which way do YOU think CD is heading -- like vinyl or AM? Enjoy what you have now, but as music lovers we are hostages of a small number of large multi-national entities who, at best, only pay lip service to sound quality.
Good post Hwy61, especially your last sentence-- maybe a bit morose but unfortunately accurate. I have a little different take on the CD vs DVD-A formats though, eg I just see the DVD-A format as an improvement or extension of CD. I have no problem with the idea of a DVD player sitting next to my CD player, and I have no problem with the idea of purchasing DVD-A titles-- if it proves to be worthwhile. I've lived through 78s, 45s, LPs, cassettes, CDs, (and some obscure other formats)-- DVD-A is just another format. Cheers. Craig.
Man, some of you guys are OLD. I remember listening in 1975 to Tres Hombres in the quadraphonic 8 track format where I was properly positioned and fueled. It was remarkable, as I recall. (I always thought that died 'cause it was so hard to afford 4 good speakers vs. 2.) Do any of you have one of those in your closet collecting dust? I would like to hear that again! Charlie
Yeh, and Betamax is better than VHS. Apple Mac operating system better than Windows. The best format does not alway win.
I believe "quad" failed because in part because there were compatibility issues /this quad cartridge wouldn't play another mfg's quad disc.The economy also played its part. Heck even 8 track was better than cassette.Larger tape/faster speed. Reg.DVD is the fastest growing format.Check the floor space at your local Blockbuster. There is little reason for mainstream America to go for SACD,or DVD-A.Now back to CDs,they will be here for a much longer time.The improvements in cd playback are worth the price to those with large collections.A good transport/a good dac are worth acquiring if you are in this group ; Those pursuing the absolute sound from their collections.
Avguygeorge--- good post; I agree. CD playback really has continued to improve right up to date, ie Levinson's 360S DAC is a significant improvent over Sony's already excellent CD player. And the 360S is software upgradeable to accomodate virtually any new format. CDs will be with us a long time to come, and I want to get the most out of my large and growing collection. Cheers. Craig