Supravox's 8" field-coil driver in the factory-recommended enclosure is probably the best-sounding high efficiency crossoverless speaker I've heard (I've never owned a pair). Incredible imaging (I'm not normally an imaging freak, but these really do it well). Very close overall (and in some ways better than the Supravox) is the PHY 12" fullrange with a piezo tweeter-on-a-stalk, which I did own and enjoyed very much. Either of these can stand on its own without help from other drivers, provided you don't expect room-shaking bass power. They are finesse speakers. Now when I've used other, less expensive and less capable fullrange drivers, I've often augmented 'em with a powered woofer section and sometimes with a supertweet as well.
Macrojack, maybe this is none of my beeswax but...
You aren't by any chance a Zu dealer, are you? It sure looks like you're claiming to be one over on audiocircle.com. Tagline under your avatar: "I am a dealer for Grado and Zu."
If so, how long have you been one?
Is the correct term "Zu Listening Post"? Who else here is a "Zu Listening Post?"
Anybody else think us industry affiliated folk ought to disclose our affiliation when plugging a product that we sell, especially when we also put down ten competing products by name in the same post?
For the record, I'm not presently a dealer for any crossoverless fullrange loudspeakers.
Thanks.
Duke
dealer/manufacturer |
Thanks for responding, Macrojack, and fully disclosing your affiliation with Zu. I was pretty rough on you there, but now I can see that there are two sides to it.
In my opinion the readers have a right to judge for themselves whether or not an affiliation matters, or is merely theoretical. Some will misjudge you out of an innate prejudice against anyone who believes in a product enough to be officially affiliated with it, but methinks it best to err on the side of disclosure. Of course, memakes not the rules.
To answer your first question, yes - a field-coil driver uses an electromagnet rather than a permanent magnet, typically connected to a battery or a power supply. I've been told the theoretical advantage is that a battery or power supply's voltage is more constant than is the flux of a permanent magnet (even an Alnico one) under dynamic conditions, but don't know whether that's really true. One very cool thing about an electromagnet is that you can vary the strength of the magnet (and thereby the Qes, and thereby the frequency response) by adjusting the voltage applied to the field coil. You can tailor the driver's characteristics to the enclosure, to a certain extent.
To answer your second question - I think you did great!
Duke |
Macrojack, you disclosed to probably everyone reading this thread except for me an affiliation that they didn't previously know about. And you disclosed to me how long ago it started. That's disclosing SOMETHING, dude.
Here are my responses to your eight points:
1. You have a formal business relationship with Zu. It began fifteen months ago, whether verbally or by written contract it doesn't matter.
2. You do not have to stock inventory to have a business relationship with Zu.
3. Whether or not you broker a deal for Zu, you stand to possibly benefit from it. Deal broker isn't the role you were asked to play anyway.
4. You may not have been given referrals by the manufacturer so far, but isn't that the whole purpose of your being a Zu Listening Post? Let's see what Zu themselves told 6moons editor Srajan Ebaen about what's expected of YOU as a Zu Listening Post:
"...[P]rospective Zu customers will eventually enjoy a few choice and dedicated Zu listening posts across the country. They promise to be a few cuts above the worn-out retailers who have defeatedly transitioned into Home Theater. Instead, these posts are envisioned to reintroduce the kind of add-on service which previously set apart the boutique High-End shops from the chain stores. The service fees paid to these facilitators by the manufacturer will remain well below standard dealer margins." ( http://www.sixmoons.com/industryfeatures/zutour/zutour.html , bottom of page)
Did you catch that? You are supposed to "reintroduce the kind of add-on service which previously set apart the boutique High-End shops from the chain stores." That's being a dealer, dude, and the only reason your fees are low is because you have no start-up costs!!
5. If you were not trying to conceal your affiliaton with Zu, why didn't you start disclosing it routinely FIFTEEN MONTHS AGO? Did you REALLY think nobody would care? How about you start a thread on the subject right now and let's find out if anybody cares? Would you care if I was repeatedly and religiously plugging Goldmund at virtually every opportunity without revealing that I stood to possibly benefit, even if I never actively solicited business or actually made any money from my actions? How about if I repeatedly badmouthed Zu as one of the brands that was clearly inferior to Goldmund?
6. Whether or not you have made or ever will make any money off of Zu has nothing to do with whether or not you have a business affiliation with Zu. The agreement is the affiliation.
7. I didn't accuse you of soliciting business for yourself. I accused you of failing to disclose your industry affiliaton with the company you were promoting while you were actively putting down other companies. Which apparently you have been doing for fifteen months.
8. I do not doubt your sincerity. I feel the same way about most if not all of the products I've chosen to invest my money and time and energy in. So do most dealers, whether our stakes are large because we've bought inventory and opened stores, or small because we don't buy inventory and only get a small percentage as a fee.
Macrojack, you're not a civilian anymore. You have an industry affiliation. You signed up for a team, dude. If you truly believed that you had no industry affiliation, then why did you admit to it over on Audio Circle, and why do your words to that effect accompany your every post over there?
Jack Dotson, are you affiliated with Zu? 213cobra, are you affiliated with Zu? No one should have to ask this sort of question at this site - we should all know when we are hearing from people who have an industry affiliation because they should make it known. The rest of us play by that rule, and if we don't we should.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Macrojack, I really think that all you did was a little bit of questionable judgment. I'm swatting flies with hammers here because I want you to see how your actions could be interpreted. I hope you'll reconsider your policy of non-disclosure, especially when you are being critical of competing brands. We don't get to take free swings at your products, and you shouldn't get to take free swings at ours.
Duke
lots of industry affiliations |
Sorry about taking your thread on a tangent there.
I used to be an Omega dealer, but the only models I ever had were those with the light-yellow coned Fostex drivers. When I started doing my own thing - which was conceptually fairly similar - I discontinued being an Omega dealer because it wasn't right for me to be competing against one of the companies I represented. But I think very highly of Louis Chochos and of his designs. The man is a prince.
I don't know exactly which model you're referring to as not having a paper cone, but in a given box size lower efficiency = deeper or louder bass (assuming competent design). In my earlier post I misjudged where you were aiming for in efficiency and maybe a few other things. I can't say the Omegas are the best in their price ballpark because I haven't heard everything in their price ballpark, but they can do some things incredibly well.
Now there are a couple of tricks that you may need to apply to get good bass out of a speaker like the Omegas. The first is, use short stands. The closer to the floor they sit, the more boundary reinforcement they get. They'll image better taking advantage of floor reinforcement than if you have to move 'em back against the "front" wall for boundary reinforcement, so save the up-against-the-wall placement as more of a last resort. Finally, feel free to move your listening position forwards or (more likely) backwards, closer to the "rear" wall, to improve the bass response that you experience.
Most single-driver speakers are a little bit "hot" on-axis, so you might want to listen from five to maybe fifteen degrees off-axis. Of course experimenting will tell you, but keep in mind that you can use toe-in sort of like a treble tone-control with a fullrange driver.
I can't comment on the Decwares because I have zero experience with them.
Here's a link to Omega's forum over on another site:
www.audiocircle.com/circles/in...
Best of luck in your quest,
Duke |
Macrojack, you are attempting a mis-direction. I don't care how much business you actually have or have not done for Zu or Grado or whoever. You have agreed to provide the services a competent dealer would provide should the occasion arise in return for the compensation a dealer would expect (the percentage is less because you have not made the financial commitment that a stocking dealer would have). It doesn't matter whether any sales have happened or not. I have been dealer for products that I never sold a single unit of - I was still a dealer from the moment the agreement was made.
Just let people know that you are a Zu listening post when you comment on Zu, and follow the rules of etiquette that industry members do (or should) when it comes to commenting on competitors. That's all.
Is that so wierd?
Duke |
Undertow, I'm not backlashing at Zu. Please re-read my posts above. And it probably looks like I'm persecuting Macrojack, but most of my loudness is really just trying to make a point.
I DO NOT think this is what happened: Fifteen months ago Macrojack smiles his wicked smile and laughs his wicked laugh, expecting to become rich (rich, I tell you!) as a clandestine Zu dealer.
It was more like this: Macrojack believes heart and soul and ears in Zu, and would gladly let anyone come by and listen to his speakers for free. Zu offers to pay him a nominal commission if that situation should arise and the customer buys a pair, as that way they feel better about calling him up and asking him to accomodate a prospective customer's needs (perhaps even bringing the speakers over to the customer's house for an in-home demo). Zu has probably found that a compensated volunteer with a job title is more reliable and does a more professional job than one who's just doing them a favor. Anyway Macrojack agrees to the arrangement. In his mind, he is still simply an experienced, loyal, dedicated, true-blue Zu fan who has agreed to help out should the occasion arise - none of that has changed, so he sees no need for any disclaimers or change in the way he posts in support of Zu.
From my point of view as a dealer, Macrojack is now sort of a competitor. He has signed on to a team, and has agreed to perform the services I would perform as a dealer, in exchange for a compensation comparable to what I might expect were I a non-stocking dealer that had no risk money involved.
From the point of view of an Audiogon reader, Macrojack isn't really a dealer but the affiliation means that there's a possible cause for bias that might be a consideration.
So let's go back and re-read Macrojack's original post in this thread now that we all know of his affiliaton:
"Zu has all this figured out. Contact them and find your answer. I owned Goldmund, Avalon, NHT, Magnepan, DIY, Vandersteen, Aerial, Spendor, Sound Labs, QUAD, JBL, and many others over the years. Zu has it all figured out."
Knowing about his affiliation changes how we react to his post a little bit, doesn't it? He might have worded some parts differently if he'd been including a disclaimer, but he could have still conveyed the same basic information (his preference for Zu and the product's meeting the original poster's requirements).
Erring on the side of disclosure is almost always a good thing... I say "almost" because I was stalked and threatened for several months by an Audiogoner for doing just that - so you can't please everyone.
All I ask of Macrojack is that he let people know he's a Zu listening post when he comments on Zu, and that he follows the rules of etiquette that industry members do (or should) when it comes to commenting on competitors.
Macrojack, that might even work in Zu's favor and in your favor for a variety of reasons. Think of yourself as a part-time professional. You have the experience and the expertise already.
Duke
dealer/manufacturer |
Undertow,
On another site Macrojack's every post was accompanied by the tagline "I am a dealer for Grado and Zu". As far as I knew, he really was an active dealer for Grado and Zu, so it didn't start out looking like a molehill to me. And far as I know he still might well be an active dealer for Grado - that would make him a "dealer", wouldn't it? Dealers are supposed to follow the etiquette.
Now that we know he hasn't really done any business as "a dealer for Zu" , it looks more like a molehill - but it's still not the same as you inviting me over to see your new Sony widescreen. Macrojack has an affiliation by mutual agreement with Zu that involves the prospect of compensation, and you have none such with Sony or Best Buy. You can change allegiance without dissolving a relationship and backing out of an agreement.
Duke |
