Could I be a Retail Wretch?

@jones4music

Do you show up to parties with no gifts?  

No. I don’t attend parties where the hosts are trying to sell me something.

Do you up a salesman time to test drive cars knowing you will buy it used?

No. I’ve never upped a salesperson 

Do you hesitate when out with a group to see if someone else will pick up the tab?

No. I wait cautiously and politely.

Do you grab the first appetizer and the eat the last pig-on-blanket?

Yes and No. If the first appetizer is a crusted lamb chop, yes. If it’s the last p-o-b, No . There’s probably a reason… 

Maybe you are a mooch. Maybe not.

Maybe I’m a mooch. Maybe I’m not. But I’m a pretty good buyer :-)

@jperry

This is a very simple buyer/seller relationship. As the buyer, my only obligation is to pay for the goods or services a seller is offering. It’s the seller’s obligation to do everything in their power to persuade me to do that. If they don’t, I move on. 

As to support - if they are an authorized dealer, I’d expect them to offer service regardless of where a product was purchased. They are representatives the brand. If you moved from one coast to the other, would you really feel hesitant to ask for support from the nearest dealer?

@rhljazz To answer your question, you are wasting their time. What you think you should pay for any given item has nothing to do what the store needs to cover expenses and generate a profit.

If this statement is your model for a retail business, you’ll be broke in no time. If a customer has researched the specs and competitive pricing, they are the most valuable asset in you business. And it should be your business to overcome their objections and make a sale. If however, you choose to position your business in a location, with the amenities of your choice, that has an overhead so high, that it doesn’t allow you to overcome a qualified customers objections, in order to generate a profit - you have an unsustainable business model.

On the other side of the coin, how would you react if your employer informed you they just received a qualified job application for your position and that applicant is willing to do your job for way less money. So now your employer wants to know if you’re amicable to a pay cut. Nice huh?

This is a perfect analogy to the buyer seller scenario. Your boss (now the buyer of your service) has made you an offer. You (now the seller) can accept or deny it. The question is - how negotiable are you. You could hold your ground and tell them, “No deal, I drive luxury cars, wear designer clothing and my wife likes fine jewelry, I can’t pay for all that with any less than you pay me now!” Or you might consider, you’re not as young as you used to be, how long will it take to find a new job, will it be at the same rate as here, or willI be starting from the bottom again, is my 401K vested, will the new job have the same benefits??????? It’s your decision. But either way the “Buyer” controls the deal.

I think some may have misconstrued my internet comparison shopping. I search a specific product, typically by manufacturer and model number. More often than not , the search reveals a brick and mortar merchant with an E-commerce presence. There are two sites that invariably appear in my searches. Both are authorized dealers. One is only a few miles down the road from the McIntosh factory and the other is in Virginia. Both discount new merchandise, both have free delivery, one charges tax. Ironically the one in VA outsources some of his Mcintosh service to the one in NY. Both are readily available for a phone call or quick email response. Their quality of service has been exemplary. They both seem to have an inventory of “open boxes” where they can offer a lower than MSRP price. My last purchase was my MX-122. My local dealer was firm at $7000 plus tax and a delivery fee. He was expecting it to arrive the following week. I did my search, and wound up getting it in 2 days from the shop in NY for $5875 with shipping. While I appreciate the beautiful environment my local shop has built, I don’t feel obligated, in any way, to pay for the oriental rugs, wishing well fountain and leather recliners. At the end of the day those things stay in his store and I leave with only the item at MSRP. For the 15 to 20 minutes I’m in the store, I’d be just as content sitting on a metal folding chair. So, while I’ll still shop the local guy for sundries, I’ll continue comparison shopping the bigger ticket items.

@viridian

I may have a different interpretation of Showrooming than you. I think it’s the act of gathering information at a B&M location with NO intent to purchase. I think my experience was quite different. I was committed to purchasing a specific item that day and I did so. The fact that, that store was not willing to sell below MSRP was their decision. So, I shopped elsewhere and made the purchase that day. 

Funny,  I came across a post you made earlier today, in regards to a fellow’s custom amp order not being fulfilled…

“LOL, you are supposed to be a business person. No one talks you into anything; you make a conscious decision to either accept, or reject, an offer, just as all of us in business do. 

And, as clients, we don’t really care what your margins are. We make the same decision you do, we either buy a product because it fills a need and we see it as a value, or we don’t. This is independent of your profit margin.

I bet that there are some excellent business classes at your local community college. You might avail yourself of their knowledge before posting again.”

So, I don’t think an educated consumer is stealing, if they negotiate with a retailer who is unwilling to be price competitive. 

@viridian

If after your auto rental experience, you decide this is the car for you, do you visit your local dealership and pay the window sticker price? Or, do you try to negotiate a lower price? If you do choose to negotiate and the dealer tells you the sticker price is firm - what would your decision be?

HaHaHa, I’m going to assume that the ”your kind” comment was not intended to be racist and the reference to the “blind” not meant to be insensitive - but neither of us is willing to pay MSRP… we’re like twins!

Well GW, compare two scenarios.

1. You do your internet research and buy something. But it's not what you want. You sell it at a loss of $2000.

2. You audition that equipment and decide it's not for you. You buy something else instead.

See the difference? That audition was worth $2000. And you won't pay a dime?

Well terry9

1. I wouldn’t have spent $5800 for a $7000 list item online, if that item wasn’t returnable. Plus, it’s the perfect audition, in my room, with my gear. No loss, great demo.

2. I audition that equipment and decide it's not for me. I buy something else instead. Agreed. 

Do you see a difference? I don’t. So, I wouldn’t pay a dime for an in-store audition, considering it would cost me $1200. 

jetter,

There’s no reason to feel sorry. I understand your point completely. However, if you look at some of the earlier posts here, you’ll see the shops I bought from, after my online searches ,are B&M shops with web and e-commerce sites, one does charge me tax (8.625%) and occasionally shipping. I do shop my local dealer for sundries and ironically he’s very competitive with those. But on bigger ticket brand names, there’s no flex.

So, I don’t feel an obligation to pay him $7000 plus tax for the exact same item that another reputable, authorized dealer sells me for $5875 that included tax and shipping.

You did make me wonder, if Mcintosh authorizes dealers who don't have B&M showrooms. I know there's a McIntosh presence on Amazon, but it's for third party sellers who sell through Amazon for their logistics. Most of the search results I come across are B&M sites who advertise  items either at list, "call for price" or "not available online". 

There’s no denying that the buying strategy of Showrooming is real. It evolved from a technology that will continue to grow and continue to change the way we shop. I understand that some consider it a questionable consumer behavior that can have a negative effect on retail structures and competitive relationships. But, if Showrooming is a known and present consumer behavior, isn’t it incumbent upon the business to respond with a competitive strategy?

Guitar Center was a public company in 1997 with 28 stores that started to expand quickly across the country. In 2007 Bain Capital, a private equity firm took GC private with a grossly over-estimated value and highly leveraged buyout of just over 2 billion dollars. The debt service would have been a strain in a normal growth environment. Unfortunately, the timing was on the cusp of the greatest recession since 1929 and the music industry just stalled. In 2014 Ares took over GC in a 500 million dollar debt for equity swap and there’s been some noise about taking GC public again. The problems GC endured weren’t the result of a poor marketing strategy but, simply a matter of someone dramatically over-paying for the company with borrowed money. Their “come sample and enjoy” environment never wavered. And, till this day there are trays of guitar picks throughout the guitar area, choices of drumsticks in the drum rooms and keyboards with headphones for anyone to enjoy. All available at the guaranteed lowest price!

This might be the time to start a local Audio Dealer fund raiser. What better way to assure the longevity of our local retailers than by giving them our continuous support. For just $19 dollars a month. just 63 cents a day, you can be a savior. You’ll be able to visit your local dealer anytime, during business hours, sample any piece of equipment and all without any guilt, because you are a member of the Audio Sustainability Society. As a member you’ll receive courteous, knowledgable, service with value-added decor and perhaps a generous selection of mints at the register. Of course you will still need to purchase at list price. Your membership fee won’t be deducted at the time of purchase as it is considered a donation for preservation. To extend the value-added experience, retailers could place donation boxes outside their front doors, for when they aren’t open. Just imagine the joy we can bring to every local audio retailer - when they realize that their community will support them and they will be able to survive charging full list price! 

@oddifyll - The genesis of this post was my question, which was in regard to a local retailer I shop at. They discount lower priced items ($500 or less) but don’t discount the more expensive name brands…

“If there’s no competitive pricing or added value, why should I feel obligated?”

Many responses assumed that I hadn’t made an attempt to negotiate, which, of course I had. The fact that I knew the item I was interested in was available at a lower price and this particular retailer was not willing to sell below Manufacture’s SUGGESTED Retail Price, I had no feeling of obligation to make the purchase.

My sarcastic (and I apologize if it offended you) suggestion for dealer support, was intended as an ironic parody for those who want me to believe, it’s every audiophile’s obligation to sustain their local dealer at all costs.

This shouldn’t be interpreted as “a slap in the face to any good dealer out there…” but a kick in the pants, to the ones who don’t quickly adapt to the buying channels of webrooming and showrooming and develop a strategy to compete in this environment.

As to my iPhone, I get a pretty enticing discounted offer from my carrier every 2 years.

@oddiofly - I’m not being factious. Please be explicit and explain to me how you perceive my interaction with a retail salesperson has wasted their time and resources.

It may be a difference between urban and rural shopping. I live in Manhattan and East Hampton, Long Island. There are 2 shops close to me on Long Island and 4 within walking distance in Manhattan. Your dealer may display prices in their high end audio rooms, but that’s not the norm and none of these 6 locations do. I have never seen a crowd at any of the 6 shops and more often than not, there’s no more that a half dozen shoppers in any listening room.

So, if the only way to find a price is to engage a salesperson - please tell me what resources I’m depleting and how I’m wasting that salesperson’s time?

@elizabeth, 

I agree, with perhaps the inclusion of LA. I think wherever there’s a very diverse cultural demographic, the practice of haggling is inherently ingrained.

@oddiofyl

I was trying to avoid the use of any business names in a post about pricing policies, that might bias anyone’s opinion. The reference I made to that one store was only geographical in nature, I chose it because it is pretty much central to the other shops in that 25 block radius. But, if it put an uptick in floor traffic - great!

@gluson

Do a search for “hifi shops manhattan”. There are more in Manhattan, but Broadway and 8th Street is the center of the  “walking distance” radius I was referring to. 

@mickeyb - I enjoy good conversation and debate. And, I always appreciate and respect the opinions of all contributors.  I can understand how you may have missed some of the facts earlier in the post, where I discussed that I knew exactly what I wanted to buy, I was prepared to buy that day, I asked if the shop if they would sell lower than list, I was told no and I bought the exact same item, at a lower price hours later.  

 But, what I can’t understand is how you, as a contractor, consider people who shop your itemized bid to be “low rent”, have “No class” and their behavior “a scumbag move”. 

 When I issue an RFP or open bid request, the purpose of itemization is to compare competitive bids, line item to line item. That’s how I can determine how bids compare to one another on both item and price. It’s one the most common practice in American business “shopping”. If your business is faced more towards residential sales, I think you should expect your prospects to pursue a few competitive bids.   

 Terry9

You completely misunderstood the post you’re referring to. But, I accept your opinion of my behavior. And, I will continue my belief that someone who is willing to pay $7000 for an item, that sells elsewhere for $5800, (because someone who is not willing to negotiate price but, has spent a few minutes demonstrating a product to them) is a schmuk. If you’re willing to pay $1200 to talk with someone for 20 minutes… call me, I’m negotiable ;-)

soundsrealaudio.

I have the utmost respect for any business person who interacts with retail shoppers. I understand your dismay and resentment with the customer you recounted. It appears you were certainly diligent, but, why did you loose the sale? After your generous interaction with the shopper, I have to conclude their decision was based on price.

Webrooming and Showrooming are retail shopping tactics that aren’t fleeting whims of a younger generation. Both have become a growing trend of tech-savvy educated consumers. And while retailers may view this with disdain, They need to develop strategies to compete in this environment. I believe the strongest defense for their longevity is negotiation.

I thank all the responders for their opinions. Thanks to those who accept or condone my shopping behavior and those who’s opinion find it “sleazy” “low class” or even “a scumbag move’... shameful monikers I’ll wear to the bank. ;-) 

terry9

Anyone who would accept being overcharged and become so meekly obedient to a salesperson that they allowed their self respect to be influenced, would be both a schmuk and a wimp.

Terry9 

Don’t just throw a stone, run away and say “Goodbye”. If your self respect is so fragile, that you feel the need to pay more for something than you need to, that’s fine. It actually reminds me of a line in Ayn Rand’s, The Fountainhead- “It's easier to donate a few thousand to charity and think oneself noble than to base self-respect on personal standards of personal achievement.”