Considering purchasing different speakers


Hi all and thank you ahead of time for any constructive input. I am trying to get some input regarding the sound of Joseph Audio Profile speakers vs Vienna Acoustics Mozarts. I currently own the Mozarts which I enjoy but am considering buying a pair of Profile as a possible upgrade. My amp is a VTA SP-120 and preamplifier is an SP-14. Identical to Don Sachs line stage. I am a tech for Roy Mottram and Bob Latino at Tubes4hifi and Don shared his "recipe" with me for my build. I believe he was using the Joseph Audio rm25xl which he spoke very highly of before having a set of custom The Audio Nirvana ’Classic 15 ALNICO’ single driver speakers built for himself. I use an old Music Hall 25.3 DAC which I modded heavily. Think Underwood HiFi complete aftermarket upgrade. Partsconnexion provided schematics for the unit and I basically upgraded everything that would improve the unit and this has been my DAC for about 5 years. I use JRiver on my custom built HTPC. I listen to all types of music. Classical, jazz, rock, reggae, blues, indie, etc.
I, like most enjoy a wide, deep soundstage with pinpont placement of all instruments and musicians and air between. Holographic is a word I hear used that I feel is relatively accurate in describing this. I want to enjoy listening without fatigue. Just close my eyes and feel like the performance is in the room with me. I also like the music to be very detailed, accurate and layered.
So now that I have tried to explain what I have, what I like, and what I listen to I will get to my questions and hopefully get some help. Has anyone heard both of these speakers? Do you feel the Joseph Audio Profiles would be an upgrade or improvement over the Vienna Acoustic Mozarts or are they similar with each having some strengths over the other in various areas?  I will not have the opportunity to trial the speakers in my listening area with my equipment prior to purchase and have never heard Joseph Audio so I am going into this ear blind. Thanks!
bennihaha812
You want holographic sound, 3-D, performers in the room ... forget the above two speakers! Buy a pair of Ohm Walsh speakers! I've had a pair in use now for years and they do deliver! 
So no one has heard the two speakers in the OP?  I appreciate people's recommendations of which speakers I should buy, but what I really want is input on the speakers I am asking about.  I own one pair and am considering purchasing the other if it is an upgrade or improvement over what I have.  Otherwise I will keep what I have.  
If you want to get nice 3-D imaging, it shall be combination of front end, amplifier, speakers , cables and room acoustics.



It is not that simple.

You can get some advice here.

But choice of speaker is dependent on your listening room and your taste.

If you are serious, you have to find way to do audition the speaker at your home.



You are right about synergy.  I have been up in the air as to whether I would benefit more from a DAC upgrade.  Considering the new Holo Spring KTE 2, Bordercontrol, Shiit Yggdrasil,  or Denafrips instead of speakers.
If you can, I recommend you to try out Lyngdorf 2170 or 3400 at your home.

Some people claimed to have got excellent 3-D imaging with combination of Tekton Encore speaker and Lyngdorf 3400.

I am using Lyngdorf 2170 as pre, Dac and room correction with good result.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/the-most-musical-sound-in-my-40-year-s-audio-history
Since yor DAC is 5 years old, despite your mods, I think it would be a good move to upgrade that first.
A Schiit Yggy or Gumby, or an Ayre Codex would be my recommendation.
I own the latter two and find them very good for the price. That will give you some time to either audition the Joseph speakers or find someone who owns them.
Bob
How much of a difference is there between Yggy and Gumby and what is the difference? Likewise the Yggy and Yggy analog 2? I have been considering purchasing a new dac for over a year and a half. I almost purchased the Denafrips terminator about a year ago but decided I didn’t want to spend $4600 on a single component unless it was speakers. There are so many great speakers to be had used in the $2000-$5000 range. I really like Vienna Acoustics and considered moving up the line to the Beethoven grand symphony. I was considering the Joseph Audio Profiles because I have read a lot of good things about their aspeakers and someone is selling a pair at a great price and in close enough proximity that I would not have to have them shipped.
Wait a sec, Vienna Acoustic "Beethoven"? Seems an odd name for a set of speakers....
I had the opportunity recently to listen to a system where Joseph audio speakers are the weakest part. They sounded very nice in a system with DCS Network Bridge and Berkeley Reference DAC at the front end. If you insist on used speakers, the Josephs are very good. I would certainly replace your DAC with an Ayre Codex!
The JA house sound pretty much nails exactly what you're looking for as well or better than any other speaker I can think of, and no need to close your eyes as they also pull off an incredible disappearing act in room. I heard the Mozarts a while back at a dealer, so different room and system, and while they may have been a touch warmer sounding than the Profiles they didn't do the holographic thing nearly as well and sounded a little less detailed and airy as well. Take this for what it's worth. Considering you can pick the Profiles up locally at a good price, I'd highly recommend giving them a shot. Worst case is you can probably turn around and sell them at little or no loss if they don't work for you, so stop overthinking this and just go for it before they disappear!
If speakers are making something "more" [holographic, as in your example] or "less" than what’s handed to it, you have a problem.

Focus on what’s ahead of the speakers and let the speaker reflect that.
"If speakers are making something "more" [holographic, as in your example] or "less" than what’s handed to it, you have a problem."

Problem is, there's no way to know that unless you made the recording yourself.  Only thing we can do is compare speakers and choose the ones that sound better or more right to us, whatever that may be for each individual.  JA speakers expose (or manufacture, depending on your perspective) holography better than most, which is why they may be a good fit given the OP's preferences.  IMO it's best to go with speakers that have inherent strengths inline with a listener's personal preferences and go from there.  
@OP, given that you can get a good deal nearby, can you ask the seller to let you listen to them for a bit before you buy?
That way you can get a feeling of what they can do.
B
Problem is, there's no way to know that unless you made the recording yourself.

The above can be said or applied to any single component or aspect of the chain. 

For me, the speaker needs to be as neutral as possible (as defined by the listener). A speaker that edits is a problem.

A speaker that comes closer to being 'neutral' will allow one to hear what is ahead of it: the recordings or power or cables or components or tweaks, etc. etc. 

The focus needs to be on the system as a whole, not the speaker.
Jeff Joseph makes amazing products. His speakers have this quality of bringing you in to the performance. You start to enjoy music even in Show conditions. Jeff as a person is polite, kind and this reflects in his products. I have a store in California. I have no skin in this. Just my opinions.
are you close NY to NJ?
OP,  it seems you have been looking at the JA Profiles in Windsor Locks, CT that had been for sale for quite a while. I have been wondering about them too but I'm way too far away to have sought  an audition.  If you are the one that recently bought them, please do me (and maybe some other AG members) a favor and post a review once you've had a chance to hear them out. There is very little to read about them beyond the manufacturer's flowery description with little specific content.   I'd like to read your opinion.
Charney Audio will give you exactly what your looking for. Holographic soundstage and pinpoint imaging is exceptional! Don't worry about the age of your dac unless your going the very hirez route.
I have a pair of Charney Maestro with the Omega RS7 driver. I'm waiting for my Sparkler CDP to arrive and my interim digital front end is a 16yr old HK CDR 26 as a transport to a Fiio Taishan D03K dac ($19.99 Amazon). Preamp ANK L4 and ANK Interstage SET 8w Monoblocks. I shake my head in amazement at what I'm hearing from this antiquated front end. Mostly due to the Charney Tractrix designed horns. Speed, attack, delicacy, and superb bass with a thick layer if emotional engagement. I Never want to get out of the chair.
If you can make the trip to Charney Audio in Somerset NJ, it will be worth it!
http://charneyaudio.com/
I didn't think the JA sound was anything like the VA sound without saying one is better than the other. In the room I listened to a pair of Joseph audio speakers, sorry not the exact model, but manufacturers all tend to have their own 'sound' and I would put the JA on the accurate side while the VA the musical. VA and the soft dome tweeters are more forgiving to recordings. I appreciate that, but JA is an excellent, probably 'better' speaker strictly speaking. personally dollar for dollar I drove 12 hrs for a pair of beethovens so that tells you my bias.
At these prices, why don't you just go audition the two and choose the one you love.  We all hear differently etc....  If you can't audition, I'd stay with what I had until I could hear something better.  JMHO
Benni;
I’ve found the most sounstaging is due to the “ most refined” combo & synergy

Speakers/amp combo is the largest part
But, the low level signal clarity coming to the speaker can make a HUGE difference , especially, soundstaging/ holographic’s.
AND , room interaction with speakers/amp can mess it all up.

To get the sounstaging , everything must be right

I recently updated DAC’s, Chord , & they are noted for soundstaging, & they do make a large difference( very surprising to me)

Also, My two buddies that have turntables , I’ve found the the LP medium has the best sounstaging vs digital.Ive read that before, LP is noted for inherent soundstaging.

Good luck on your adventure

I would try a few DACs at home first to get a feel for soundstaging ( easy to try & return way bang for buck)

ps: I listened to a NAGRA recorder playing the master tape to Vienna Acoustic Speakers with swivel head

(best soundstageing I’ve ever heard)

good luck

jeff


Jeff's right for the most part. Depending on your price range, some of the top DAC's rival the best vinyl IRT sound staging.  My new Laufer Technique DAC ( www.thememoryplayer.net ) is still in prototype but so far it crushes the DCS Scarletti with external clock and other under 35k DAC's that I have pretty extensive listening with in many systems in the same rooms.  It's a 10k DAC that can be upgraded and customized.  The Aesthetic Romulous DAC is one of the most underrated DAC's in the world.  Jim White is a shear genius.  

The whole system as a whole is what will or won't get you what you want.  Not all top products will mix with other top products.  Digital is the most temperamental.  


Buying more/different flashy gear, speakers, new this, new that, will get you from one frying pan into another frying pan. It won’t solve the outline issue. The issue is; flies never stay on an audiophile! Audiophiles seem to be THE most discontented people!

The other issue is even more simple; how is it I can do with a a few hundred pounds (or equivalent currency of choice) what other people can’t do with tens if not hundreds of thousands of pounds?

For me, it sounds like your problem would be solved with simple and little-to-no-cost adjustment of your room acoustics, and then sit back and enjoy rather than stressing about imaginary things you haven’t got!

The grass is always greener
Looking at someone else’s plate
Out of the frying pan ..

... just wish some audiophiles would
Sit back and smell the roses





OP, the IMHE, the main differences in the Yggy and Gumby are that the Yggy is a tad better at extracting the last details from complex recordings. That makes it seem a bit more analytical. The Gumby is a bit more organic sounding, a bit warmer, but still able to untangle complex recordings to a great degree. I own a Gumby and would suggest the Yggy as a step up only to those with SOTA very neutral systems. For most, the Gumby will make you very happy and be a little more synergistic if any of your other components have any edge or brightness.

IMHO, the speakers will make the bigger more obvious difference in any system. Optimizing room setup and speakers(properly driven) that suit your preferences are requirements before over-investing in anything else. Cheers,
Spencer
To me the VA Baby Grands have a certain magic that the Concert Grands don't have.  Unfortunately, the Concerts have more bass extension that the Baby's don't.  So what to do?  Save up for a pair of used Liszt's, which are superlative.
The best imaging speakers in my experience are Wilson Watt/Puppies.
The last iteration I heard were the WP-7's. I would much prefer the Sashas with the new soft-dome tweeters since Wilsons have always (had a reputation of being) too bright in the treble region. I also heard the Alexandria-I and was pretty impressed. They too have gotten better
but cost as much as a Ferrari.  My point is this- if you want the speakers to "disappear" they do this "thing" where the sound seems to come from everywhere. The system and the room have to be set up properly for this to happen. If you want musicality more than imaging then there are other
less expensive choices. I went with Eggleston speakers and Sonus Faber.  They (to my ears) sound much more like real instruments, and they image well, but Wilson Audio engineers its products for perfectionists. So instruments kind of "shimmer" and shine brightly-
the emphasis is on resolution like turning up all the lights in a room to their brightest setting. You can see more clearly...but your eyes may tire
from the intensity after awhile. Just an example of trade-offs you face when systems get a little "too good". A dull-sounding speaker can be just as annoying and disappointing, and many of those are not necessary cheap either. 
I live 20 minutes from Windsor Locks.  Would love to hear those Pulsar's I think you said they were.  IF the Western Ma guy (sorry, I forget the posters names) you are welcome to get in touch and come listen to my system.  Vandy Quatro's (3" granite slabs on the way) top electronics and cords/cables.