Confused Musical Presentation


Disclaimer!.... I have neurological auditory damage from exposure to military ordinance without hearing protection and therefore wear hearing aids. I have suffered a considerable amount of hearing loss above 3000Hz. The effect is similar to a treble tone control turned all the way down! However, I've been a music lover and audiophile since the early 80s and have enjoyed a lot of different systems over those years. My present system consists of Wilson Sophia 1, Quicksilver V4 (KT150), BAT 32SE, Cary DMC 600SE, and analog front end is driven by AVID Pulsus and ZYX 4D. Cables are Analysis Plus all around. I have minimal room treatment in 17 x 28 dedicated listening room. 

My  Problem: Listening to small group jazz (90%), typical audiophile fare, and solo instrumental and vocal music is simply breathtaking even at higher volume levels.  (My max on the volume is 80 out of 140 on BAT) No issues at all. However, when the music gets complicated/complex everything goes to crap! Soundstage collapses, music is jumbled together. There is the same effect even at moderate listening levels. Any suggestions to remedy this would be greatly appreciated.

Mike
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Showing 2 responses by millercarbon

One thing is absolutely true is that I CANNOT discern audible ques in a crowded environment!
What I was afraid of. If this happens even without hearing aids then sorry to say its not them its you. Oh well. Natural process, happens to us all, just in your case you got a lot of help and a big head start. 

So your trauma has resulted in a condition of not only loss but also inability to distinguish individual sources in, as you say, a complex environment. You are not alone in this. Lots of us experience this to one degree or another, and it only gets worse with age. Its so common almost everyone with hearing aids has this problem. 

So yeah harsh and brutal but I think if you face reality its painful but at least then you stand a fighting chance. No amount of delusional room treatment etc ever gonna get you anywhere. 

Since you are not the only one however then I have to think there are those who have studied this. I would begin as always with the interweb. But search, don't just ask random people, you hit pay dirt with me yes but to continue the mining metaphor that vein is played out you're down to a gram per ton if that.

Your audiologist might be able to help so ask him. What you're looking for is research or info on exercises to rehab your hearing. It could be physical but there could be a psychological component as well. Basically you have been traumatized repeatedly and now your brain is interpreting any complex sound at any volume as noise.

Not saying this is what happened, but if it was me I'd want nothing more than to curl up in a ball and shut out the world. If I couldn't do that physically I bet you my brain sure would as a protective mechanism if nothing else. Which unfortunately goes with you when you leave the battlefield.

Probably a lot of this is physical, similar to the hearing loss. But to whatever extent it is psychological, which I'm sure there's plenty going on there too, well then that would be good as at least there you stand a chance. 

Meantime, just a hunch but if it was me I'd be doing all I could to play and enjoy whatever music I'm able, and assiduously avoid whatever triggers this auditory confusion. Not just in music, but everywhere, to the extent that is possible I mean.

A side benefit, you may gradually come to gain an appreciation, or maybe recognition is a better word, for what is going on. Like, you already know its complexity not volume, and complexity of environment not just music.

One of the best psychologists I know said something to the effect that even if something is out of your control, to the extent you understand and recognize it, that alone is enough to bring a sense of relief. Might sound crazy but in my experience its one of the most sensible insights ever.

So you're a smart guy. And military, so you know perseverance. You'll figure it out. Let me know. Way I see it, probably be needing it myself some day.
Everyone is going after the system even after being clearly told there are hearing aids and damaged hearing. Situation normal.

As state of the art as your hearing aids may well be one of the hardest things for any system is when the tapestry gets dense to keep all the threads clear and distinct. And look, this is with plenty of AC power, overbuilt power supplies, and plenty of physical space to work with. Even something as big as a phone or iPod, when you want better all your choices are bigger. Also with audiophile gear what’s the worst component? The all-in-one. The home theater receiver.

No home theater receiver ever made ever made anything but crap sound. Even with all that power and space to work with. Of course your hearing aids are the problem. Always have been. Always will be.

There’s a simple test that will rule out the system and confirm its the hearing aids: when in a big room full of conversation (restaurant, stadium, etc) are you able to easily hear and make out lots of different voices and conversations? Or let’s say its raining, or you’re in the shower, or driving the car with the window down. Can you still distinctly hear isolated sounds within all that background noise? That’s the acid test. If you can do that with natural sounds but not with your system then its the system. Otherwise its the hearing aids.

Or you. Can’t rule that out. But if so then sadly that one is beyond even me. For now anyway.

Okay so going to assume its the hearing aids. Because it is. Nothing else (that we can deal with) makes any sense at all.

Any suggestions to remedy this would be greatly appreciated.


Well you’re not gonna like it but it is a solution so here goes.

Hearing aids are comprised of microphone, amplifier, and speaker. We know its possible to cram really good speakers into the ear canal, because lots of people have them. So true audiophile sound with hearing aids is possible, and the problem is not the speakers.

Its the mic, and amp.

So what you do, get yourself a really good set of IECs. Inner Ear Canal phones. Shure SE535, something like that. Then shop around for some iPod sized amp to plug them into. Finally once you have that you will be ready to audition microphones. One or two, your call, depends on how unobtrusive you want to go I guess.

As much as I’d like to take credit for this brilliant solution I have to admit this was done long before me by Fosgate who built one based on headphones. Worked great. Nowadays, quality IEC, iPod size amp, one good stereo mic clipped on the collar, hardly even know its there.

Considering the rest of your system this would be the single biggest upgrade you could make. So there you go.

Oh and, I know the services are messed up and all, but thanks for serving.