The seller misrepresented the speakers. Audiogon's definition of 10/10 Mints is as follows:
Speaker grilles should have absolutely no pulls or discoloration. The bottoms of speakers should not show signs of stand mounting or floor scrapes.
I think it's almost impossible to use stand mounted speakers, (on stands) without marring the bottoms a little. I agree it should have been disclosed in the ad, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me unless they had very deep gouges and/or severe damage to them.
I've even seen speakers that were put on shelves where the paint from the shelf rubbed off on the bottoms.
I would agree a "mint" 10/10 rating speaker should be perfect on all sides. I guess it must just be a personal thing to have an unmarred bottom. I could care less as long as the remaining sides are presentable.
They sound a lot worse with scratched bottoms; I, for one, would not put up with it.
I guess for me it just doesn't make any sense. It is so easy to not scratch the bottoms. On some speakers that I have seen, I just had to think to myself if they did it on purpose it was so bad. If you had floor standing speakers, would you drag them on a hard surface floor without using a pad or blanket?
If the price is right to the condition, I'll forgive misdescription. I had same experience as seller too.
If you really care about what the bottom of the speaker looks like, and that is your right of course, you should have asked the seller for pictures of the bottoms before you bought them, and the problem would have been avoided.
Why should he have to ask the seller? If they are rated 9/10 or 10/10 or described as "mint" the onus is on the seller to describe the defect in the text of the ad. Otherwise the ratings and descriptive words have no meaning.
Simple. Because a picture is worth more than a thousand inaccurate (or dishonest) words.
Roxy54, Ive learned to ask to see pics of the bottom of speakers. I just don't like asking, because it makes it sound like I'm too picky. I just feel like if you are describing the speakers condition, it should included all sides
I can truly say I bought a pair of mint AP Steps here as described by the seller and Audiogon 10/10 rules.
A pair of AR 7's where the vinyl was in such good condition I could have thought it was veneer!
It's your money, so I think you have a right to ask.
Sorry for your misfortune, however you can't assume everyone thinks like you, or lives by your standards. I'm sure that every seller does not look at Audiogon's grading scale before listing a product. This would result in different ratings from different people for a product in the same condition, not to mention that some stretch the truth, and others are more conservative.
IMHO, when you buy something, it is your responsibility to know exactly what you are getting, even if it means being "picky". If you think the seller lied or misrepresented, then start a dispute through Audiogon, otherwise, just move on, let it go
, and chalk it up as a learning experience.
Though hard to do, I force myself to think about this old saying at times,
"Problems have only the size and weight that we give them."
Hope you have better luck in future transactions.
Souljasmooth,No you are not being too picky. I have mounted bookshelf speakers horizontally on stands and it would piss me off if the bottoms were damaged.
Mr. Mofimadness...really? You sure?
I've used/owned several diff stand-mounts over three decades and never have I even marred the bottoms.
Blu-tack does the trick.
Lindisfarne...it really depends on the stands you are using.
Some of them use smaller spikes that face up. Kinda hard to
not mark up the bottom of the speaker using such stands.
I was in the high-end business for 25 years, so I've seen
LOTS of this happen. Way more than several examples, like
you have had.
I wouldn't expect "mint" condition speakers, or any other component for that matter, to be all scratched up here on Audiogon. Even if it was the bottom. There are higher standards here.
Mofimadness, I have used stands with spikes that face up. I have done a couple of things. Lots of blue tack, or put a heavy duty pad underneath the speakers. I can understand having four little spike indents, but what if there were indents and a bunch of scratches from twisting and turning them on the spikes? Is it really that hard to pick the speaker up before you move them around on the stands? Makes no sense to me....
Souljasmooth...I completely agree with you. What I have found is that people will tend to turn, (toe in or out) the speaker not the stand and that is what causes the marring on the bottom. Some stands are really heavy when loaded with shot and/or sand or are just really heavy on their own and it's easier to move the speaker than the stand, (especially if the stand uses sharp spikes and are also heavy. The spikes get caught in the carpeting and can cause the whole rig to take a tumble).
I'm not a proponent of this, just stating the truth as I have seen it over many years in the business.
I have used Blu-Tac also with much success.
Mofimadness, I get what your saying. I use to use stands that that weigh approx 150lbs each and never liked to move them around, so I would just move the speaker around on top of the stand. But I would lift the speaker up and toe in or out then put the speaker back down. On some speakers I have seen/bought, I have seen spike marks and huge scratches from them dragging the speakers on the top stand...I guess those are the people that dont care about the bottoms...
When this happens get big money off or send them back or KICK BUTT!!
Ebm....please try to keep your replies shorter. ;^)
The condition of a speaker should include all sides, that should be a given. Anything else is misrepresentation, and should be mentioned in your feedback for the transaction. Let the buyer beware, this site was once a bastion of integrity, but alas, gone are the days of music lovers trading equipment, we now live in a world of low ball offers, tire kickers and a serious lack of integrity. Sigh.