Obrennan, Thanks for the update. I am about 1-3 weeks away from placing an order for my Coincident LS. Can't wait! |
Charles1dad, Obviously I think and hope that it will be a good match with my current system. I will know in about a week and a half. As far as the ModWright OPPO 105, I have pretty much decided that is in my future. I was going to send my modwright sony 5400 back for the digital in mod, but I think at this point it is clear that the way to go is to sell it and go with the OPPO, which already has a digital in feature. Its likely that will be on the agenda for next fall or winter. I think for now, I'll get the biggest bang for the buck out of the Coincident.
Abruce, I would consider Israel Blume a reliable source and he says its balanced. |
Obrennan, My wife just called and told me it had been delivered a few minutes ago! I am quite eager to get home, set it up and flip the switch. |
Guys, :)
Lots of smiles here. Even with just an hour of burn in, its really showing me a lot of what I hoped I would find. Dead quiet, very transparent, excellent dynamics, it has all the virtues of the Promethius signature but does them better. Just a bit of brightness expressed at times, but I trust that will work its way out with burn in. Timbre generally dead on. Nice piece of work, Mr. Blume! |
Starting to develop depth in the soundstage. OMG, this thing is good. |
I have relatively inefficient speakers (Magnepan 3.7R's) and amps with somewhat low input sensitivity (2.8 V to give 28 dB gain) and yet the volume setting on the CSL is about 9 to 11 o'clock, which gives peak db levels at my listening position of ~ 87 to 90 dB. The current CSL offers 14 dB gain, and the settings from 10 to 2 are 0.5 db increments. Above and below 10 to 2 the graduations are more course.
All of that tells me that with high efficiency speakers, high input sensitivity amps, high output sources, or recordings done at high levels, one could wish for more volume steps.
I was concerned about this issue and discussed it with Israel prior to making the final decision to purchase.
It's just one more box to check on the system matching homework.
And yes, I agree, this is one outstanding preamp. Almost got 24 hours on it now. |
Charles, I asked him about the 10 and 20dB gain options. His answer was pretty much along the lines of "the current CSL has 14 dB of gain. That should put you in the 10 to 2 o'clock area for most of your listening." He appears to have been correct in his prediction, although I think it will tend toward the 10-12 o'clock area.
I think if you were trying to drive his 97 dB efficient speakers with the 20 gain CSL you could have some issues. I don't know if he would have offered a lower gain option if I had pressed the issue. He seemed quite confident the stock unit would work. I would have been concerned about higher gain though. After all, I was using a unity gain passive, and that not ever wide open.
BTW, when I went to bed last night the brightness had passed (~ 5 hrs). After playing at low levels all night and all day, not only is the brightness gone but the lean tonal balance is warming. I just love what i am hearing. |
Charles1dad, I have a good 100 hours on the CSL now. Much to my relief, at this point there has been absolutely no aberration in tone or timbre and the the CSL is just dead silent. Dynamics, as expected, is much improved, but not at all in an unnatural sense. I have heard many actives that had all kinds of dynamics--sounded quite impressive if you had no live acoustic music frame of reference. But for me they sounded like hi-fi, not music.
Not long ago, I started a thread asking for recommendations on putting together a system specifically for listening the chamber music. Before introduction of the CSL, it was normally difficult if not impossible to discern in space the location of the 1st and 2nd violins. The CSL just nails it! Image, especially depth of image, is really impressive. Looks like it wasn't the Maggies, it was the Promitheus. It was a good thread with a lot of great suggestions, but now, I don't know if that project is really necessary. Might still be fun, but maybe not really necessary.
There is no downside at all as far as I am concerned with the CSL.
I think the passive vs active debate is still relevant below a certain price point. With the CSL, we are beyond that price point.
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MrMitch, I don't listen to much rock, but I think the CSL will be fine with any music. I will say it is just fabulous with chamber music. I am listening to the new Shostakovich release by the Pacifica Quartet now, as it turns out. I have found that the CSL provides stunning placement of the instruments in space. One can hear the 1st and 2nd violins as clearly separated in space, which is not always a trivial accomplishment. I have also noticed this on the recent Dvorak release by the Vogler Quartet.
I have had my CSL for over a month now, and I could not be happier.
Wylsynet and Mikha, congrats! My guess is I must be getting close to 300 hrs of burn in now. Yes, it gets even better! |
Wilsynet, I had the same thing as you are describing with the mute switch. I traded some e-mails with Israel. This can happen if an XLR IC is not wired accordinging to standard, but in my case it was a bit of an incompatibility between Israel's approach to the mute switch and the grounding scheme used in my Cary amps. He offered to change the mute switch to work with my Carys, but I would rather just forget about using the mute switch. |
Mikhai and Charlesdad, Very insightful review, which is of course, another way of saying I am in substantial agreement. A review with which I am in complete agreement is nothing short of brilliant. :)
Seriously, this captures pretty well the essence of this extraordinary piece. It really is the final destination, provided it offers the functionality one requires.
Charlesdad, I am still playing with power chords. Every single other component in my system loves VH audio AirSines but not the CSL. Weird. I may just have Israel make one of his for me just to see what it does. |
Charles, No need to temper that enthusiasm~ I'm hearing what you are hearing, and loving every minute of it. The CSL is one nice piece at any price. At under 6K, it is a steal.
German, sorry to hear you had problems getting your tubes. HEY Rachel, WE WANT THE WE101D TUBES!!!
Hope that does the trick. |
Pap, good move. I'm about 6 months in on mine now. There is just nothing not to like with the CSL. |
Pap, I couldn't open the link you provided. I am sure I don't have the new WE replica. The standard PSVanes, at a little under $200 a pair are mighty good tubes and in many respects takes the CSL forward as Charles stated. If the WE replicas are all you say in comparison to the std PSVane 101D's Charles and I have, well, that is going to be something special indeed. $600 a pair is getting a little pricey, but---the CSL is the heart and soul of my system. Gee, seems like you might have picked up a few extra pairs for your old buddies in the US! :)
I would say the attributes you listed describe well what I have experienced going from the Shuguangs to the PSVanes. Sounds like the WE's just go further. By the way, how many hours did you have on your standard PS Vanes? I must have 300-400 hours on mine by now and they are still improving. |
Charles, not only are the hi fi series 101Ds an outstanding value, I anticipate that the used tube market will see a steady trickle as CSL owners go with the WE's. I certainly intend to give the WE's a try when they are available in the US, but I'm not loosing sleep waiting. |
Jordan, I've never used a preamp in my main rig that had a remote. You don't miss what you never had. Plus, my vacations consist of daily 12-20 mile hikes, so I don't think much about the 15 ft from my chair to the CSL. For me the adjustment, which I made long ago, was going from infinitely variable pots to stepped attenuation. That took a while to get used to. |
Jordan,
North to south in 3 days is pretty impressive! Back when I was riding I topped out at 36 miles a day. I'm planning on retiring to Tennessee, so that I can hike in the Smokies day after day. That day can't come soon enough. May even get back on the bike, but its a different proposition once one moves out of the flatlands.
Next time I see 4 guys on bikes headed south on I-65 I'll honk and wave! |
Vetterone, Please publish the source or send me an email. I'm in. |
A group buy works for me or Vette can buy them and I will reimburse him. Either way. Let's just get the tubes. |
Charles, I certainly want to give these a try. I never did get a feel for what Vvette was proposing. I don't much care if I buy them from Israel, Rachel, or Vette, as long as the tubes are within the price range we have been discussing and I have recourse if the tubes are damaged in shipping. |
Hey pap,
I assume the correct configuration of the PSvane WE 101-D is the 301B small pin /large pin, correct? |
Jordan, I know your question was directed at Charles, but permit me to offer my observations during burn in. Straight out of the box, the PSVanes were actually somewhat similar to the Shuguangs. I did notice more air, which I suppose could present as brightness in some systems but did not in mine. At about 40 hours, the tubes began to sweeten up nicely and present with a nice improvement in midrange over the Shuguangs. At maybe 100 hours, I began to notice the system was offering much more mid-low bass authority, so that I was inclined to tweak my sub down a couple of notches.
My first reaction to the tubes was rather ho-hum, ok nice tubes, slight improvement over the Shuguangs, but nothing special. Be patient. These tubes really do need some hours. |
Jordan, I feel your pain! Have you discussed this hum issue with Israel? When I first got my CSL, I had hum problems when I engaged the mute switch. As you know, muting prior to turning things off is recommended. It turns out that the CSL has a "very clever" grounding scheme, which can be very quiet but it turns out there are some grounding schemes in other equipment that can result in a hum with the CSL. In my case, Israel helped diagnose the offending equipment as my Cary mono blocks and offered to rewire the CSL to avoid this problem. The other option was simply to not use the mute switch, which is what I elected to do.
I think it is worth talking to Israel. He can probably help you figure out what is wrong and perhaps provide some options about what to do about it. |
Jordan, You have superb equipment, and zero noise should be the expectation. If I were starting from scratch, knowing what I know now, I'd put together an all coincident system paired with my modwright sony (or an oppo) and be done. But I'm not starting from scratch, and I'm not kicking my Maggies to the curb, so the goal (and part of the fun) is making everything I have sing in harmony. Sadly, I really can't drive my Maggies with Franks.
Please let us know what sort of help Israel can offer on this. His customer base for the CSL really should explode, but he has to effectively serve the mix and match market to make that happen. |
David, I use a Voodoo Air Dragon on my CSLS. I tried a number of pretty good cords, but the Air dragon out performed them all. Best dynamics and timbral accuracy by a long shot. I have not tried the Coincident cord however. Next best to the Voodoo was an old PS Audio Statement. Great on dynamics, but it had some other issues. I think the CSLS likes a lot of copper. It wants current, and it wants it right now, seemingly. |
Charles, as you pointed out earlier, the PSVane HiFis continue to improve. I have no idea what the quantum improvement Pap promises is going to sound like.
I think I'll be sticking with my VooDoo Air Dragon PC though. |
Pap, I've had mine in the CSL for a couple of days now. Preliminarily, I like what I hear, but I'm going to burn these in for a couple weeks before doing an A/B/C with the Hi Fis and original Shuguangs. |
Charles, based on my experience, I'd contact Israel first. As you know, the WE's I got from Grant had issues not expected from tubes in this price range. Israel won't send you anything not up to snuff. |
Charles and everyone, I'm up to my elbows in new stuff (OK, my ModWright Sony HAPZ1 and Coincident Triumph Extreme IIs) and trying to get my house up for sale. Hence, the delay in getting a serious, or even casual, A/B/C with my 101D tube collection. It is clear to me that these are good sounding tubes, and they are certainly burned in now. I was a little put off by the build quality in the pair I received. I have found them to be pretty noisy until they have been on for 10-15 min. These probably should have been B stock tubes. I was just too busy to hassle with trying to send these back to China, plus, I couldn't have gotten a replacement pair, so I just kept my mouth shut.
I suspect the factory is having some trouble in early production runs making the tubes. I think they will ultimately get things worked out, and we will all be so much the better for having a reliable supplier of primo 101Ds. It is a superb tube, and I can imagine a robust source of great new production tubes will inspire more equipment designers to take notice.
Charles, I am eager to benefit from your assessment. Your system, life, and personality are a bit more stable than mine! |
Charles, my point was that honestly, all of the 101Ds, the Shuguangs, the HiFIs, and the WE replicas have arguably been superb tubes. The 101D pretty much is a superb tube by design.
To my ears, the differential between the WE's and the HiFis was not orders of magnitude improvement. I would really need to do a more careful A/B to really say more than I have said.
Part of the problem is that while the WE's have been burning in, I've changed sources and speakers. I am thrilled with what I am hearing, but how much is due to the WE's will take that A/B with the HiFi.
As I recall, right out of the box, the HiFis were a noticeable but not spectacular improvement over the Shugauangs. It took some burn in for the HiFis to really differentiate themselves.
By now, I'm sure I've got a good 300-400 hours on the WE's, so an A/B on fully burned in HiFis vs WE's would be meaningful. |
Charles, well said RE Israel's fine work on 101D implementation in the CSL. Based on my experience with the CSL and now my Triumph Extremes, he has my full attention. The franks are just a matter of time. |
Charles, right, nothing bovine about the Coincident gear! :) |
