Coda CP pre-amp vs Rogue Athena Magnum vs ARC LS-12 .Need information

Timtub, The CP was offered to me for $1700; If  could buy it for 1500, I would "probably" jump on it   (But, I don't think BIll D  will go any lower in price) I say "probably", because I have never heard the pre-amp or found one review about it. 

ARC LS12  is posted at $1195. I could probably  negotiate the price down to $1050. However, it has no phono which means I would have to buy one at least equivalent to the one in the Rogue Sphinx integrated which is very good. The Rogue Metis Magnum is simple with minimal  features and has a phono and remote. No DAC's HT loops, etc.  

BTW,  I just looked on ebay for the  Muse pre-amp and could not find it. So, I am either blind or it has been sold which seems unlikely. Is the seller overseas?? because you mention something about exorbitant shipping costs.   Thanks for the information and advice 

Tim, FYI, There  are several CJ ET2 and ET 3 on sale on AG., and one ET2SE which reviewers and members alike claim the SE version sounds better. 

I would have to assume the ET2 and ET 3 may provide better sound quality than the LS-18 Premier on sale But who knows, it could only  be marginally better except for the SE versions. 

BTW, I checked with CJ about the cost of upgrading  from the ET2 to ET2SE and would be  $2550..00. because they have to disassemble the original ET2 and rebuild it with the upgrade parts, and reassemble it.  Might as well just buy a new ET2SE    Cheers 

To Cerrot, Thanks for the heads up about the Innersound pre-amp.

To Tim, Thanks for the link to the ebay ad for the Muse.

 As far as the phono stage issue, I am just trying to avoid another box and cable The music looks nice but has an outboarded power supply which is good, however it has only a remote.  Its cosmetics are a bit utilitarian but the price is good compared to Coda CP.  BTW, Bill D. claims Coda  offers a remote for $150.00

Also, thanks for review link on the Sanders pre-amp in Dagogo

BTW, it appears the Muse Signature has been discontinued.  I'll keep you all posted.  Decisions, Decisions!!!!  

Looks like you checked out the CJ LS18  or is there a Premier LS-18?? 

I ask because if it is the one now selling for $1395, the seller posted a pix of a very delectable incentive to buy.  I will check out the CJ ads again because I don't recall a Premier LS-18.on sale 

I got the Sander's pre-amp review, but have not read it yet  BTW, I saw the Graham Slee unit in the Music Direct catalogue, but I probably am going to want both MC and MM because I could switch cartridges somewhere down the line. 

One last point about the CJ, LS-18, it is unbalanced, and has a few features  I don't really. need .  However, when I spoke to CJ about this pre-amp 6 weeks ago, the rep claimed it was the best SS pre-amp they ever built. There was a review that raved about its performance in Stereophile by Larry Greenhill posted Dec.22, 2002.  Thanks again for the advice and tips 

Tim,  Well, I am surely not going to buy a CJ ET2  and have it upgraded  However, there is a few ET2 at r $2000  or under. on AG. I would prefer to stay far under that figure, that is why the Rogue Metis Magnum, and the ARC LS-17 (at $1195) are under consideration

However, as you mentioned The  CJ Premier LS-18 is a serious contender if I can negotiate down the price to $1000---$1100  The model was issue in 2001.  I reread Larry Greenhill from 2002, and in his conclusion he notes a few a caveats about the pre-amp.... He states...... "because the CJ pre-amp are single ended designs, you can't use them to drive amplifiers with balanced inputs, or use balanced interconnects to minimize  hum and noise pickup.....etc."  

I need to call CJ to confirm that, but I am not sure he is right. As mentioned before, I use the pre outs of the Rogue Sphinx integrated, and have a XLR to RCA cable from Signal Audio Cables,  and it all work fine. However, I am not sure how the Rogue hybrid integrated design is "classified".   Single ended??  Also, input impedance and output impedance  seemed to play a major in the sound quality

It seems choosing a different brand (and used)  pre-amp becomes a crap shoot in terms of the final sonic results   The ARC LS-17 was issued about the same time as the CJ,  which really means nothing except that they are older designs in the those companies lineup of pre-amp over the last 15 years.  I think the only reviews I found on the ARC was on the "Audioreview" blog  on which it scored very high  with owners.

Nevertheless, I will carry on with a song in my heart. 

 Tim, 

Yes, it is a tough call, and you offer good common sense advice. I may put this all on the back burner for a bit, because I am taking a short vacation at the end of September, and  would resume the quest when I return

The Muse pre-amp has become a distant possibility for a few reasons which I need not go into.  The low profile of both Muse and Coda concerns me less than not knowing what to expect. The key trigger for me is that what ever I choose advances the sound quality similar to the BAT-VK-200 amp which really opened my eyes about aspects of high end audio I either did not understand or appreciate.

Let me note, that the BAT pre-amps are a given as far as a possible choice. However,   I was hoping to get something lighter in weight and smaller in size, and not dressed in "graveyard black".  I did not talk to CJ today to clarify about the compatibility of their LS-18 pre-amp and the BAT  amp.

One  last point, I was thinking of launching a new thread about asking whether the electronic "design" of a component is still viable after say 15 years, that is, do newer designs necessarily provide better sound quality. I realize and know from experience that speaker design may be hardest to pin down, whereas electronics, and to a lesser degree cables over time "usually" ( I say usually) get better in sound quality incrementally.   I know that the idea of buying some companies "newest" amp, pre-amp, CD player, etc. does not guarantee improved sound quality compared  to either its previous models, or models of  other manufacturer with similar dates of issue.  That is an interesting question!!

Cheers!!

 Tim,

0I will checkout  the ad on e-bay.  In the meantime,. do you know anything about the Mark Levenson 38S  pre-amp.  I always thought Levenson products were overrated and the company continued to flourish because of his constant crusading for its products which always seemed over inflated in price.  There is one on AG now, but the seller Tansen Audio wants too much for it.  The design  must be at least 15 years old.   Thanks 

Tim, Thanks. I contacted ML about the serial number but they claim the server that contained the info was destroyed.  So I will either have to believe the seller or move on.   I did read some stuff on the blog "Audio Review"  about the major sound quality difference between the 38 and 38S..In addition,  ML sent me the info and a PDF file of the manual.

Were you aware that ML was bought by Harman International?? I also heard though it might be just rumor that they also bought  out  ARC  about ten years ago. 

I got blown off twice by their customer service department attempting to verify a serial number. Maybe, it was a mistake, but I know Victor Khomenko at BAT is always open to answer questions about his older models.

An ARC SP-17 popped up on AG today. and I found an old thread from 2008 asking about what was a better choice the SP 16 or SP 17.  I also was able to clarify via that thread the difference between their two series: that is, the SP and LS. I read that SP models were earlier pieces and had no phono stage, whereas the LS series often have phono stages ( optional, I guess) and remotes. The SP 17 is not   balanced, only RCA's,  but has a phono stage and remote I need to check out some reviews. However, if ARC is going to be hard-ass about answering questions I will need to change horses in mid stream. The Classe CP-60 is looking much better now, and even the Muse CL3 Signature

Onward and upward I go  Thanks.  

To Larry,     Thank you for the info  and explanation. 

To Tim, Thank you for all your advice and recommendations. Sometimes I am reluctant to launch these threads, but don't have the means to  travel to different audio stores even in L.A. county, and there are several good ones; and, going out of state to audition or shop would give the wife  just another reason to commit me.  BTW, I never got a reply from the Classe CP-60 seller on ebay

Also, thank you to the members who have responded.

The search continues!!.