Sorry Jimmy, I have no experience what so ever with multichannel gear. . . NuForce or otherwise. Guido |
Hi Coffeey, as I have written abundantly elsewhere about what I have like in switching amps. . . I'll cover some of my less memorable experiences.
Heard the little Flying Mole monoblocks 2 years ago at RMAF. . . fuzzy, sterile, and forgettable, except for being extremely small and cute and inexpensive under $1K per pair.
Red Dragon -- heard at same show. Far too dark sounding for my particular preference.
JRDG 201 monos -- they are and older and a somewhat minimalistic design. sweet but a little cool, without the kind of subtle microdynamics that I like, nor with the dynamics that I want. They also can run out of steam and become glassy on louder passages unless the speakers are very sensitive. I heard the same problems driving Maggie 3.6, Vienna Beethoven Grands, Vienna Mahlers.
JRDG 501. Still an older design. Yet, you won't have authority problems with these. . . lots of authority in fact. . . I heard them on the same systems where I heard the 201s. Like the 201s they did not draw me into the music. While I would not call them sterile by any means, they do sound a little 'cool'. Perhaps more suited for Jazz ensambles than for female vocals or classical. JRDG has recently introduced an external PFC device called PC1 for the 501 and 201. This is said to bridge the performance of these amps much closer to that of the Continuum 500 and 312 amps. . . but I have no direct experience with PC1 in this application.
Channel Island monos -- heard last year at RMAF. . . sorry do not remember what model. Very nimble, but once again a little cool, and even a little tippy. On the other hand, these may not have been broken in, and switching amps are total bears to burn in. . . 1000 hrs or more in many cases.
The statement above about ICEPower based amps being inherently inexpensive poor performers is not quite correct. The issue is rather of how these power conversion modules are used. the same modules can be used in extremely basic and low cost devices, or can become part of much more sophisticated products costing upwards of $30K. Same as with transistors or tubes, really. And being the application of Switching modules rather new, the first design attempts were a little experimental and only moderately successful.
G. |
"That would sum it up for me. I'm a big SET fan. The only one that has done it for me is the Red Wine Audio 30.2."
That's exactlhy the problem Onemug. . . there is nothing to sum up. Like with every other technology, some class D amps will be of your liking, while others may be just. . . interesting. Some may be 'cheap' as you say, but some other ones are definitely not inexpensive. Yes, a Flying Mole and a few other ones at less than $1K are inexpensive. . . but a Nuforce at $5K? Spectron at about $8K for the stereo config and twice as much for a pair of monoblocks? JRDG Continuum 500 at $8800? or a JRDG 312 at $16K? or a JRDG 301 at $30K?
As you can see, like with SET, there are switching amps for all budgets, and for very diverse requirements. G. |
Dpac996, are you sure you are not generalizing a little prematurely? You have owned one switching amp which you did not like, and you're concluding that no switching amps can be of your liking? I have heard several amps that I disliked in class D, classic solid state amps that made me run away from the room, and tubes that put me right to sleep. . . should I conclude that the whole industry is immature and move to butterfly collecting? G. |
Hi Rafael, I was hoping that we would be able to move this side discussion to another thread so not to highjack this one, but it looks there are already a few answers to your post. . . so moving to a different venue is no longer as clean an option.
In answer to the damping factor of 60 on the 301 monos, I fear I do not have an answer. I do not know why their damping factor is low, nor I know if this issue would impact your MBLs. . . although I suspect it might. Those are questions for Jeff Rowland. Furthermore, I have never heard the 301s, so it is a little difficult for me to comment on their sonic characteristics. As you know I am very fond of both Spectron and JRDG 312. Unfortunately I have not had the opportunity of listening to both of them side by side on my system, nor I had the opportunity of hearing Spectron in mono configuration as yet. . . . and speculative audible comparisons are always a little. . . speculative in nature. But we have highjacked this thread long enough. . . how about now returning it to its intended purpose? G. |
Dpac996, you have compared 1 relatively inexpensive ($1400) switching amp with SS and tubed devices ranging in price between $5000 and $8000 and found the $1400 amp to be wanting--not an overwhelming surprise. You may have wanted to compare the fine amps you enjoyed with switching devices in the same price range. You may or may have not enjoyed the Spectrum, Nuforce, or JRDG Continuum 500, but at least you would have derived meaningful findings. |
Hi Vikingboy, what did you like in the BC Ref 1000 over the Pass X350? |
Dpac996, Thought about unsubscribing perhaps? G. |
Hi Jimmy3993. Glad the lively debate stirred your interest. Please let us know what you decide to listen to. . . and of course let us know your impressions. Guido
|
Hi MRT, Raptor appears to be made by Gilmore, see:
http://www.glacieraudio.com/new%20Glacier%20Audio%20Site/Products%20folder/Gilmore/Gilmore-amps.htm
At $5K it appears to be a direct competitor to the NuForce monos and the JRDG 501. May I ask what you particularly enjoied about the Raptor, and where you prefered other amps. Do you happen to know how many hrs of operation the Raptor monos had on them? ICEpower amps are notorious bears to break in. Finally, does anyone know if they will be shown at RMAF? |
Jimmy3993, yes the amp will contribute to staging, like every other component. . . you'll see in a couple of weeks. I suggest you call Nuforce about the problem you are experiencing with the P9. I have tried 2 different pres with the NuForce Ref 9 SE: ARC Ref 3 and JRDG Capri. They both have no impedance nor gain matching problems with the NuForce. I personally prefer the Capri because of its frequency extension and linearity, but many will prefer the Ref 3 for its slightly greater warmth.
|
Thank you MRT, much appreciated. . . both Gilmore and your friend are likely real optimist on break in time. . . As posted elsewhere, I suggest that about 1,000 hrs are a must for ICEpower switching amps fore they truly sing. Jimmy, you will have a lot of fun with the excellent Nuforce monos. Try to find out how many hrs of playing time they already have. . . . if you can, connect a tuner to them or a CDp on repeat, and let them play no stop for those 2 weeks. . . and only toward the end do some critical listening. Many people have dismissed switching amps prematurely because of simple lack of patience. If you could keep them around for one entire month, it would be best. . . . considering that they are probably partially already broken in, by the end you should truly be able to tell what they are capable of doing. G. |
Yeap, Nuforce amps sure do not like travelling, may take a week of real playing time before they forget how much they disliked the airplane's cargo hold. . . until such time, they'll keep reminding you about how unhappy you have made them! [smiles!] |
Jimmy3993, I can only guess that mechanical vibrations, temperature excursions, and who knows what else may have a detrimental effect. . . besides you have no idea about their past history. . . so, assume the devices are almost new and start break in from the ground up. |
Hi Jimmy3993, I can only think that someone tweaked gain on either pre or amps. . . this needs a call to Nuforce tech support. Guido |
Hi Jimmy3993, here is a slightly different path. . . I have just spotted an Agon ad for a brand new JRDG Continuum 500 for under $7K. This is an integrated roughly equivalent to a pair of 501 monos + 1500W PFC circuit (twice the capacity of the PC1 + a Capri pre board + a block of additional bulk output capacitors not available on the individual components. This is the same model of Continuum that DCSTEP has been raving about for the last several months. This is the first time I spot a Continuum 500 on Agon for sale. Some specs at:
http://jeffrowland.com/Continuum.htm |
Jimmy, look at the current ad for a JRDG Capri for approx 2.2K. Capri is balanced, has remote, HT bypass, has 0.5dB volume increments. G.
See:
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatran&1223931452 |
Hi Jimmy3993, yes I am running a Capri in my system consisting of TEAC X-01 Limited, JRDG 312, Vienna Mahler speakers. I prefer it over my ARC Ref 3. I have also run the Capri with NuForce Ref 9 SE and it worked perfectly. I could wax poetic about Capri, which is currently my preferred pre of record. . . but there are some threads where I have already commented abundantly on it. Just search for Capri in the discussion threads. . . here are some of the threads in questions:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1169433708&openfrom&19&4#19
and:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1200110667&openmine&zzGuidocorona&4&5#Guidocorona
If you buy a Capri, let it play music for 1000 hours or so, then decide if you like it. G. |
