Clarity Cap CMR Impressions


Hello!
Wondering if anyone has updated their passive crossover with the Clarity Cap CMR.
I'd like to hear how they compare to the MR and comparable competition. I saw some threads on the MR but not these.

Thanks 
Darren
dmhenley
Sorry DM! I have been short of cash flow of late, but I have a great speaker kit I was going to try to market based on the MR versions.

The hype is exceptional. We'll see!

Erik

Hello Darren,

I have personally compared CMR to MR in a modified Pass Labs XP-25 phono stage and modified Merlin VSM speakers.  The main technical difference between CMR and MR is the use of a copper litz lattice end cap in place of tin-zinc end spray.  AFAIK, this is an industry first for a metalized polypropylene film capacitor.  Tin-zinc oxidizes during the spray deposition process, producing grain boudaries with variable impedances across the conductive surface that joins the metalized film layers.  To my ears, as compared to MR, CMR has more faithful pitch and timbre, reduced slurring across the frequency range, and a quieter background.  Hope this helps.

Regards,

Dave

ClarityCap OEM Sales

Thanks to you both!
Appreciate the insight - and, I am thinking I’ll give the CMR a spin.

Happy Holidays.
Took advantage of PCX sale and grabbed the CMR.
Will be posting impressions in time.
Hi Dave,
Can I ask - is there a resource available online for non-engineer types like myself to help illustrate what happens to a cap over time as a signal is run through it? I'm interested in what happens, and how that relates to audio quality.

Thanks again,
Darren
Ok, wow. 
Startling dynamics. Tone, texture and nuance are all enhanced - more real -  acoustic instruments sound more like they should. Micro-dynamics are better translated, even at low volumes.Well worth the investment, in my humble system.

Details here:
http://thenewold.co/clarity-cap-and-the-tekton-lore-first-35-hours/

Happy Holidays!
Darren
Great to hear. :) Wait for the end of the first 100 hours though. :) Lots of caps and electronics sound extra dynamic at first and mellow out.

Best,

Erik
@dmhenley Wouldn't that be nice?

I wish there was. I did speak to Norbert Mundorf at a show, promoting the 30th Anniversay edition speaker kits. He was pretty convinced capacitors changed sound quality when new, but we never got into any "why's" about it.

Audio Research has started promoting the idea of taking around 400 hours for their SS gear to break in. I assume most of that is in the caps.
@erik_squires 
Heh, yes it would...but not knowing - it won't keep me from enjoying the music ;)

Hey @dgarretson

Question, do you have any expectations for how the CMR vs. MR compare in terms of ESR? I'm wondering how close they are to drop-in replacements for each other so I can gauge if I'll need to make adjustments to a tweeter filter.

Thanks,

Erik
Hi Erik,  I'll try to get that info from Factory.  What capacitance values and voltage rating are you using in your application?

Hi Darren, Glad that CMR works for you.  I'm hearing improved tone and texture as well.  As Erik mentions, the splashiness will calm down as they break in.

Dave 
@dgarretson 
Hi Dave, thanks again. This was my first crossover upgrade, and I'm very happy with the result. I went from stock - which were Dayton caps - and, the improvement is significant. 

Good to see you- Dave (dgarretson).
Hi @dgarretson

Thanks for backing me up, people usually think I make this stuff up.

Let's say 2uF and 10uF.

Any sort of comparison would be useful. Like "Exactly the same, half" etc. I should stop being so cheap and just buy a set. I just want to order everything I need at once.

Best,


Erik
Forgot to answer your voltage question. :) Lowest available, so I think that's 400V for CMR?

Thanks,

Erik
Following up...must be getting close to 100 hours on these caps. Listening to Nolatets record, Dogs, and everything is more natural sounding. Closer to being in the room - it's a live recording - and, the mids are more open and even on a track where things get frenzied with piano, vibes, drums and upright bass all going at it there's great separation (in width and depth) stability and tone. Attack of the mallets on the vibes sounds right. Great record, if you like improvised music, btw.
I just received Clarity CMR caps that will go into my 2-way Mundorf/ScanSpeak system soon.

ESR was normal, around 0.4 Ohms @1kHz for 10uF.

Caps are now puck shaped, instead of cans. About 12% smaller by volume. They also measure really tightly. Like, within 0.2% of each other and of spec. While the MR versions were also pretty tightly controlled, they were about 1% under marked values on my measurements. Still well within the 3% spec.

Going from 1% to 0.2% of marked value speaks to greatly improved manufacturing tolerances. Refinements like this are not at all easy to make.

I’ll add listening impressions much later.
Look forward to hearing your impressions. Thanks!
hi guys, 
someone of you has compared CMR vs MR ?
what are the sound deifferences ?

thank you
Man I have been slacking. I've been afraid of dismantling my current crossovers to put these in. :) I didn't do a very good job of making them upgradeable. :) I'll try to get to it this weekend.

I'm putting in a pair of caps, 4uF and 12uF

Best,

E
i'm excited :) 
@erik_squires 
Hi Erik, If you would please,  let us know what these replaced and how they compared when you tell us how you like them. Tim 




I should warn you guys, the big cap is currently bypassed by an Audyn TC, and the small cap by a Duelund silver foil.

Silver foil IMHO did nothing. Audyn is priceless.

So my goal is to see if the new caps by themselves are as good as this combination.

I keep looking at this filter and man, I think I'm going to have to sacrifice one if not both of these caps. << cries >>
so you used an Audyn TC and a Duelund Silver foil as bybass.... What are the main caps that you bypassed?
Hi Tim,

Mains were 4 and 12uF Clarity MR caps.

Unfortunately after destroying my first crossover it seems I used way too much hot glue to swap caps out very easily.  I'm going to have to order new parts. :(

Best,


E
The Audyn bypassed the 12 uF. Good improvement.

The Duelund bypassed the smaller cap. No noticeable change. I also had tried the Audyn. It changed the tone, but not the sound quality, so I chalked it up to simple uF change, not a real sound quality improvement.

Based on a number of tests I had concluded the failing of the MR caps was at the larger end of the spectrum, while smaller caps performed nearly flawlessly.

The CMR line should remove this issue so that is what I am looking for.

Best,

E
More info: The Audyn TC bypass was 0.1uF. The Duelund was 0.047uF. So, proportionately each changed their cap about 1%.

Also, this high pass filter goes to a larger Mundorf AMT. Measurably and sonically the equal or better of most Be and diamond domes. It has the speed and transparency with better dynamic range and linearity. The larger surface area limits dispersion which is exactly what I wanted when I designed the speakers.

OT: Nothing pisses me off more than armchair speaker designers mansplaining why AMT’s won’t work or are inferior because of their dispersion.

Best,

E


we wait your review on CMR compared with MR
;) 
erik, what do you mean when you write:
" the failing of the MR caps was at the larger end of the spectrum".
... that with the MR sound all bigger than should be ?...the instruments are very bigger and don't have their real life dimension ?
the presentation goes very far from real position of loudspeakers ?
Hi Audi4Pass,

It wasn’t even that subtle. :)

The big cap sounded more natural and liquid when bypassed. I wouldn’t say it was anything even as nuanced as imaging or dynamic range per se. More about the decay of notes and perception of space. Like the larger cap would "cut off" the notes too soon.

I tried 1 Audyn TC 0.1uF cap on each. The Audyn TC made a huge improvement in this area on the large cap, but no diff on the small cap.

I strongly suspect that building up a big MR cap out of smaller one's would work as well, but Clarity pricing did not make this affordable at all, as you'd pay significantly more in the end.

Best,

E
OK, caps are in my left speaker only. And they are hacked in with jumper cables.

I like to change caps on one side only sometimes, it helps me figure out what the real differences are by what now sounds muted.

This will probably change over next 48 hours... but...

First impressions are this cap has a lot more extension, which makes the MR sound dark by comparison, and has tons more air.

Some of this is normal to a new cap. What matters is what happens by Tuesday. :)

When the parts arrive from Parts Connexion (probably Friday) I'll rebuild both sides and give you all an update.

Best,

E
thank you erik,
we wait your review when cmr will hase a good burn in....i know that they need at least 200 hours.

about the more extention do mean hights or bass or both ?
if is only on higths this may be critic on metal dome tw or more open tw
do you agree?
Cymballs sound more prominent now.

I want to wait for a few days before assessing that this is a real difference.

I think there are some fantastic sounding metal dome's. They don't all have the oil-can resonance that characterized so much of the metal domes of the 1980's 1990's.  Few of these are in commercial speakers though... ( Zing! ) hahahah> :)

The AMT tweets I am using are superbly open. Measurably flat and lacking of compression of distortion.


Best,

E
So less than 24 hours in I really don't like the change. Yes, there's more air, but it's due to an exaggerated treble IMHO. It has the treble hype of the top end Mundorf's without their glass smoothness.

More later.


Erik
Also, to anyone doing capacitor comparisons, it is WAY easier to do them by replacing them in only one channel than both.

This actually reminds me a little of Carver's approach to amplifier comparison.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/carver-challenge

It would be really interesting to build a test bed to compare 2 film caps to each other simultaneously, then use that to record the delta between them in terms of performance using actual music.

I'm a genius. It needs a catchy name and a sponsor.

Best,

E

so, from these few hours of burn-in the cmr seems to have a mid-high more prominent and rough than mr which seems to be more warm and relaxed sound.
go on with burn-in, but i think the family sound you found is that....
i hope the thing go better in next hours
shortly could you describe mundorf silver oil compared to mr  ?
audio4pass

I haven’t heard every Mundorf Supreme but here are the traits I associate with them, in general. (The Mundorf MKP is a completely different animal, dark like the Clarity ESA only with more low level detail).

Very smooth, glass like quality to mid and top octaves, but there’s also a scintillation or over-saturation of colors in the mid to top. It’s not unpleasant, but it’s NOT natural. Real sounds and instruments don’t sound like this.

So, which is better? Clarity MR or Mundorf Supreme (and it’s varieties)??

That is up to you. Magico and B&W are big fans. I don’t think people realize at the top end of these ranges how much you are listening to the caps instead of the speaker drivers. It’s a big deal.

Personally, I wanted more natural sounding instruments. The kind of sound you hear when you walk up to a saxophone or violin busker on the T without an amplifier.

A lot of people do NOT agree with me, which is why I will die penniless and alone. :)

Best,

E
Funny Erik. I agree with you on the importance of caps in a speaker especially on the midrange and tweeter. I find the paper in oil/wax types with copper or aluminum foil sound best in terms of sounding more like the instrument. I have liked Mundorf in the past, but must say the Jupiter and Duelund caps seem to sound more real. There are others, but I have not tried them all. 
Hi @grannyring

Thanks!

I meant to say "The most expensive speakers in the Magico and B&W lines rely heavily on Mundorf Supreme's for their sound quality."

Best,

E
erik, 
you write: " Very smooth, glass like quality to mid and top octaves, but there’s also a scintillation or over-saturation of colors in the mid to top. It’s not unpleasant, but it’s NOT natural. Real sounds and instruments don’t sound like this"
What caps you are referring to ?
Very smooth, glass like quality to mid and top octaves, but there’s also a scintillation or over-saturation of colors in the mid to top. It’s not unpleasant, but it’s NOT natural. Real sounds and instruments don’t sound like this"

This is the Mundorf Supreme line.


That is up to you. Magico and B&W are big fans. I don’t think people realize at the top end of these ranges how much you are listening to the caps instead of the speaker drivers. It’s a big deal.

This is also about Mundorf Supreme
ok, so claritycap cmr (not jet burned), sound similar to mundorf suopreme line?
so, util now mr seems to be the most "natural"?
I think it has some features which move the CMR more in that direction, yes.

But that is very general. I don't hear the over-saturation, over colorful treble. It is cooler/brighter. For a while it also sounded grainy, I hope that goes away soon. :)

Best,

E


I havd been molding caps and Xover parts for almost 20 years now.
I just replaced thd Mundorf supreme for the by mids . Thd new CMŔ are much 
Cleaner then  the Mundoff  supreme, even with a .1 Mundorf Silver oil.they are rated have over 160 hours I on them they have  and they are Noticably better then what I knew with old Mr caps. These caps  are special very nice baLance.
These  caps  present thd performance which us as good as Jupiter's best or Mundorf without bring too much as Good thjng. These CMR caps rate at 
Least a 12+ in my system much less $ than the top names but not in performsnce.
What does seem to be consistent in my current listening trials is the CMR breathes a lot better than the MR.

I know it's a weird thing to say, but if you have heard GOOD high efficiency speakers you'll have an idea of what I mean. The top end just sounds like it was slightly congested before and now has completely opened up.

Hopefully this quality lasts through the break-in. :)

Best,

E
@audioman58

Good info! I've been lusting after the Jupiter Cu foil, but man, about 5-7x more expensive, far too rich for me even as prototypes.

Best,

E
@audioman58 
so you compared cmr aganist supreme silver oil or normal supreme ?
if i understand right after 160 hours cmr are better than mr, right ?
because i listened the same thing of erik: in the highs freq cmr are congested
how many hours do you suggest to start linsten the cmr ?
please explain beter, thank you 

@erik_squires 
you say that now the cmr top end is opened up, not congested as before.
are you sure ?, how many hours are burned the cmr
Audio...see the time stamps on my posts..

i wont have a final assessment for a week or su until i rebuild bith sides.