Of the two c-j amps you list, the Premier 12's were
introduced in 1993 while the LP140M's came out in 2006. The
Premier 12's are going to give you the warmer sound
associated with the older c-j house sound.
One other thing, the LP140M's use the CDJ Teflon coupling
capacitors and this does definitely result in a more
neutral, less "tubey" sound. I discovered this for myself
when I had the C1 capacitor upgrade done to my Premier 140
Definitely the 12's. I would try to listen to them first, though. They may be too much of a good thing. The sound is similar to the 11a.
What amp are you currently using?
Before buying the CT-5 last week, I was using a PV12 & Premier 11a. Ed @ CJ service told me to upgrade the 11a to teflon caps to get the most out of the CT-5. With old set up, the Dyns will fatigue your ears in the highs. The CT-5 has given me a lot better bass definition & more transparent soundstage but the treble fatigue still exists. Hopefully, the C-1 ii's will cure this. There is a great deal on LP 140's on the net right now, it will probably give the new Dyns the power they need but with a more neutral, less warm sound. I'd like to get all the benefit out of the CT-5, but it sounds like it will be a tradeoff as CJ moves closer to Audio Research with their more current products.
Joe - did you like the sound of your amps after the C1 upgrade?
Zd - running the CT-5 with Premier 11 isn't too warm for me. Will the 12's bring more warmth than the Prem. 11?
Would be great to audition these amps first but won't be likely. Thanks again guys!
Yes, I did like the sound after the upgrade. There were definite improvements in dynamics, clarity and frequency extension at both extremes.
I believe you may be headed in the wrong direction if you're seeking "more warmth". I own Premier 12's and pair them with the Premier 16. I've also owned the CT6 and extensively auditioned the CT5. Of the 3 preamps the 16 is by far the "warmest" (and best pre, IMO).
Knowing that the PV12 is of the same vintage as the 16's, I think the warmest pairing would be the PV12 with the Premier 12's.
The last time I heard either an 11 or 12's was at least 5 years ago. It was the 12's. I can only go by memory. Taking that into consideration, I would rate them about the same, as far as warmth goes. Understand, though, that's my best guess.
I can tell you, for sure, the PV12 is warmer sounding than the 16. For me, its way too much of a good thing. It borders on dull sounding. Its the kind of preamp you buy if you need to "fix" something.
In your OP you say that you don't want a hard/bright treble. You may want to have a look at your CD player. If thats the real problem, I suggest you go there first. All these vintage CJ components we are talking about here are warm sounding almost to a fault. If you set all this up and then change your CD player, you may not like the system.
Thanks for responses guys.
Zd, as my DAC1 is so old, I'm certainly looking for a newer DAC. Was considering Oppo 105 but not sure it would be an improvement in redbook cd playback. A guy installing a new laser in my SST-1 suggested trying the MYDACII from Musical Surroundings (only $1000), since things are advancing so rapidly in digital arena & computer audio right now. Maybe the brightness in high frequencies will be alleviated by C-1 ii's EVEN without a new dac.
Here's a 180 degree change - upon reading Chip Stern's glowing review on Positive-Feedback.com issue 36 about the synergy between Rogue 150's and his reference C-1's , I'm considering a used pair of Rogue 180's. Chip gave rave review to 180's in issue 60 on same website. I know the Rogue's will not be warm at all. But with new C-1's and the fact the 180's are current state of art at a reasonable cost , it may be worth giving them a try. I wonder how they would work with CJ CT-5. I don't think I would switch out the CT-5 for the Rogue Hera ii preamp, but synergy rules...
Any thoughts guys?
Given your last post, I can't tell you what to do. I don't know your system or your personal taste's. Since you ask for our thoughts on the situation, I'll give you my opinion of how this all looks to me.
Your original post states you have a problem with a bright treble in your system. We may have a difference of opinion as to what bright is, but I clearly understand what you are talking about. Your single out the brightness as a problem that needs to be fixed. I get it.
If you read through your post's, you loose that focus. Now you are talking about changing components that you've never heard based only on a magazine review. I simply can't tell you how bad of an idea it is. To cover all the reasons that make the idea bad, I would have to write a book. I can, however, tell you this: I know from experience. It just doesn't work.
The only advice I can leave you with is not to buy any new components without trying them in your system first. I know that's not always an easy thing to do, but its well worth it. The Rogue's are very good but I don't see them fixing your problem. If you're really serious about them, I believe The Cable Company is a dealer. I would call them and have them send out the amps for you to audition before you commit to a purchase.
Both the CJ-12 and LP 140 are great amps, but I wouldn't mate either to any Dynaudio speaker. Been there, done that. I had a Premier 11a and tried to get used to the sound when I mated it to a pair of Contour 3.3s. IMO, Dynaudio speakers are just not tube friendly speakers. I had much better success when I moved the Dynaudios to the living room SS system and substituted the JM Reynaud Offrandes with the CJ amp.
Depending on how large your room is and how loudly you play you will undoubtedly hear some good sound; especially in the midrange. But you are going to be lose some music resolution on the (mostly) low end and a little on the top as well.
I really do think that Dunaudio makes a great speaker, but the other issue you may have with the Premier 12s is that the amp is too noisy for the ultra-high resolution that these speakers provide.
But maybe it will work better for you than it did for me. Try before you buy if possible.
Thanks for opinions fellas.
What do you think of CJ ET250s amp with C-1ii's?
I know am all over the place & certainly seem to have moved off of my original thread.
Not familiar with you speakers but the ET250's will pair nicely with the CT5 and based on specs they should run the Dyn's nicely. They will however continue to move you further from what you were seeking in your OP, IMO. I think Zd gives you some excellent advise. Throwing $5k at individual components hoping that they will "correct" a problem is a very expensive way learn the ropes, unless of course you have the time and money.
With all that said, what I can tell you from experience is that my 12's worked very nicely with Totem Model 1's which I understand are similar to your Dyn's. I currently use my 12's with great success with the latest Merlin Masters, a very high resolution speaker. Just the right blend of warmth from the amps and detail from the speakers. Yes the 12's may be a little dated, but if the "older" CJ sound is what you are after, which appears to be the case, the 12's are what I would be looking for.